How to punch out ski boots?

[Nevada29er]

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...Ski-Boot-Press

found^^ in my book marks ... yer welcome

^^Now this is what I'm talking about! Just missing the welder.

I'm going to mess around with the boot stretcher first, and if I'm not happy with the results, I'll have a shop fab that C-clamp punch.

This is the stretcher that I have coming. http://https://www.amazon.com/FootFi...boot+stretcher

[Cocximus]

What's this shit about loosing pebax punches?! I finally got my beasts to fit like my khions. The khions were grilamid, the beasts are Pebax2. How long does it take to loose the punch? If they fit last week, will they change in a month? Whats the difference between pebax and pebax2?

[gregL]

What's this shit about loosing pebax punches?! I finally got my beasts to fit like my khions. The khions were grilamid, the beasts are Pebax2. How long does it take to loose the punch? If they fit last week, will they change in a month? Whats the difference between pebax and pebax2?

Dynafit switched to Pebax before the Khion was introduced, the last boots to use Grilamid were Vulcan, Mercury, Green TLT6. Although Pebax has more memory than Grilamid or Polyurethane and doesn't punch as distinctly, you can get it to move and stay in place with a bit more heat and more time on the press. I've had good success with the current Dynafit boots, Pebax's bad rep comes from older models like the Black Diamond Factor/Quadrant and Salomon Quest Max BC which were very punch resistant.

[Nevada29er]

Was cruzing the hardware isles of HD today, the BootPunch 2000 (CP) is taking shape.

It will be based off a Bessey deep throat welding clamp,


with a outer "thimble" similar to the other post, constructed from a piece of flat steel and rod.


The punch end will be the end of a large carriage bolt welded on the the flat swivel end of the clamp. Total cost for the BootPunch 2000 will under $100. Going to a Harley shop on 4th street for the welding, although a muffler shop could it as well.

[gregL]

Whats the difference between pebax and pebax2?

Not sure. I've punched a couple pairs of warranty replacement Beasts and they seem about the same as the Khions.

[Cocximus]

Good to know. Wildsnow was where I read the khions were girlamid and beasts are pebax.

[gregL]

The spring before the Khion came out (there may have been some Grilamid prototypes at that point, not sure) Giordano Vechiet (Dynafit product manager for boots) came in the store and was talking about switching all the shells to Pebax, and how they felt it skied much better, etc. He seemed nonplussed when I asked about modifying the shells ("You guys punch our boots?").

[Meadow Skipper]

Was cruzing the hardware isles of HD today, the BootPunch 2000 (CP) is taking shape.

It will be based off a Bessey deep throat welding clamp,


with a outer "thimble" similar to the other post, constructed from a piece of flat steel and rod.

The punch end will be the end of a large carriage bolt welded on the the flat swivel end of the clamp. Total cost for the BootPunch 2000 will under $100. Going to a Harley shop on 4th street for the welding, although a muffler shop could it as well.

Inspirational! I've been using a reversed Irwin Quick-Grip bar clamp and a carved wooden block to lengthen Intuition liners that shrink. Now you've got me thinking this might work on shells with a little modification:

[Boof Head]

boot punches are super cheap. Heat is easy, but its the hydraulic press that you are missing.
I am all for saving a buck, but you are talking about a few beers $
Usually the press is left on for a few hours to let it hold.

Also, I have seen more than a few folks walk in asking for a punch in a certain area, and the ace fitter punches the other side or makes other adjustments that make more sense.

I thought I needed a punch once, but the liner was too tight, so he made vertical slices in the outside of the liner - that gave me the room I needed. Its little shit like that.
Check your bare foot in the bare shell. Observe clearance all around.
Also check your foot in the liner with no shell. If that feels tight in spots, you may need some release.

Don't suppose you have a pic of your liner mod to share? cheers

[emcee]

I thought I needed a punch once, but the liner was too tight, so he made vertical slices in the outside of the liner - that gave me the room I needed. Its little shit like that.

bumping this thread from the dead because it's ranking high on google. Can you post a pic of what this liner-slicing adjustment looks like?

I've got a bone just beneath my malleolus that starts screaming after 3 days of hard skiing in my newish boots. The shell size is great, but the pressure comes from a weird curve in the liner with extra material. It's about a 1cm square are that needs to be packed way out.

My original plan is to tighten a big (8") c-clamp right on the spot on the liner and smash the foam down into submission (maybe apply heat too), but if there's a better way to do this fix I want to know before I start ruining things.

[Boof Head]

bumping this thread from the dead because it's ranking high on google. Can you post a pic of what this liner-slicing adjustment looks like?

I've got a bone just beneath my malleolus that starts screaming after 3 days of hard skiing in my newish boots. The shell size is great, but the pressure comes from a weird curve in the liner with extra material. It's about a 1cm square are that needs to be packed way out.

My original plan is to tighten a big (8") c-clamp right on the spot on the liner and smash the foam down into submission (maybe apply heat too), but if there's a better way to do this fix I want to know before I start ruining things.

That’s what I ended up doing. Big clamp, a block of wood, and a heat gun.
Black Diamond liners are shit.

[mntlion]

should work for liners, might not for shells. I have not got one, but I'm sure I will

http://www.leevalley.com/en/garden/p...49&cat=2,51676

[emcee]

That’s what I ended up doing. Big clamp, a block of wood, and a heat gun.
Black Diamond liners are shit.

what was the block of wood for...?

[Boof Head]

My trouble spot was larger than the foot of the clamp so I used a piece of wood to spread the load. I warmed up the area with a heat gun, applied the clamp, heated up the area again and tightened the clamp.

[powderdetective]

Figured I would post my experience here. Used a lot of the info on this thread but figured I would compile what I did. I have a couple specific hot spots on my foot that needed space.

Tools needed:
Heat Gun, roll of cork, duct tape, old set of liners (but current should work), foil, small pieces of cardboard, permanent marker, infrared/instant thermometer.

Foot for reference:


1. Take liner out of boot, put foot bed in the shell, put barefoot into shell, and center foot in shell as best I could. Used hammer to tap outside of shell and determine where hot spots were. marked those hot spots with a permanent marker.



2. Put footbed back in liners and mark on liners the hot spots. Used cork roll to pad the hot spots. more than one layer if needed. I attached with duct tape.




3. Create deflectors with foil and cardboard.
4. Tape deflectors to boot around the marked hot spots. Like below


5. Use heat gun on these hot spots. I used the lower setting on the gun. HEAT UP SLOWLY or the plastic may bubble (I had this happen slightly on one boot, but it shouldn't affect ski performance, see below). I would heat for ~20 seconds then let sit for ~10, rinse and repeat. Distance from boot also has significant effect on speed of heating. I aimed for ~240F (as mentioned earlier in the thread cause my shell was Grilamid). Infrared thermometer would be better than instant thermometer I used, but it worked well enough. Also used a blow dryer on low setting to help get some initial heat inside the boot.





6. Put thick pair of ski socks on and put on bootliners with footbeds in. Shove foot into boot and buckle tight. Tighter for more aggressive stretch/punch. (You can always punch more if needed but can't shrink so I didnt go too tight on mine for first pass but they definitely still felt tight).

7. I stood in boot until it cooled enough to be able to hold my hand against plastic without getting burned (~6mins) then quenched in a plastic container filled with water and ice.

Comments:
May need to do one boot again, but I am going to ski it first and see how it does. Potential that foot is swollen a bit currently so it is not a true indicator of how much room I have in boot now.

[itwistjoints]

Bump so I have this. Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[wasatchback]

Another ghetto option that works really in a pinch.

First step is to find or make something that loosely resembles the punch that you’re gonna need. You could shape something out of a piece of wood on a sander or whatever.

You will need a heat gun to spot heat the plastic in the zone you need the punch. I don’t think you need the deflectors nor do you need to get it that hot. The plastic should never bubble. Different plastics require different heat but 200 is plenty for most. Slow and low with the heat gun is best...

If the shaped piece you made is not metal put some magnetic tape on it or fasten some metal to it and position it in the boot and place a magnetic on the outside of the boot to hold it in place. Once it’s in the spot stuff a deflated soccer ball or some other ball inside the boot. Pump up enough to hold the punch in place and remove the external magnet. maybe hit the plastic again with some heat if you were slow and pump up the soccer ball until desired level of punch is achieved. Let cool either by leaving it or icing it to rapid cool.

[gregL]

The temperature that plastics will move AND hold the new shape is all over the map. The bottom end for a good punch is around 235 F. (or 117 C. - that's what a K-Tech oven is set at) - at the upper end many PU/Ether compounds in race boots will go as high as 315-320 F. without damage.

The plastic needs to be that hot all the way through, not just on the surface, and it takes a while for the heat to move through the shell wall. How long varies a lot, too, and is based mostly on type of plastic and shell thickness. The key to doing it without bubbling is to apply intermittent heat, i.e. five seconds on, five seconds off, checking with a finger on the inside of the shell constantly for temperature. It's ready when you can't hold your finger on the spot for more than half a second. Pay close attention to the exterior surface while you heat, often you see a change in surface glossiness/flatness or coloration as you get close (the yellow Tecnica Grilamid gets a slight orange tinge), then go super easy if it's not hot yet on the interior.

[gregL]

PS The key to not using any masking element/heat deflectors and still not heating any more of the shell than you need is to hold the gun very close to the shell (I am usually at less than 1 inch) but only for a few seconds at a time . . .

[altacoup]

Any ideas for how to diy a toe punch for length? I have access to a typical boot fitters punch tool but can’t get anything to fit that’s long enough to punch the area of the big toe for extra length. Also seems like boot fitters hate to do this and sheets recommended a bigger boot but then I’m just swimming in then volume wise

[gregL]

Any ideas for how to diy a toe punch for length? I have access to a typical boot fitters punch tool but can’t get anything to fit that’s long enough to punch the area of the big toe for extra length. Also seems like boot fitters hate to do this and sheets recommended a bigger boot but then I’m just swimming in then volume wise

Not really.

Bootfitters who use an old-school hydraulic expander (i.e. Superfeet/Blademaster/Sidas) hate doing it because it's slow and you have to pack a bunch of extenders into the boot to get the length. Then the hydraulic only moves about a centimeter, so you often have to do the punch in two stages. If you heat the inside of the boot you also have to be careful not to warp the sole - I remember one class at Masterfit where the instructor said he routinely screws the sole to a board when doing a length punch. Wow, time = money, but I guess he charged enough for the service.

Most busy shops have figured out how to do it on a lever press, like the Keyser or SVST, and it takes a fraction of the time. Just be sure to shield the toe lug when heating the shell or it will deform. Also make sure the extra length doesn't affect the static fit or lateral release of the toepiece.

[El Chupacabra]

Rounded screwdriver handle inside + heat gun outside?

[Buster Highmen]

I'd get them drunk, then accuse them of ogling my wife.

[gregL]

Not really.

Bootfitters who use an old-school hydraulic expander (i.e. Superfeet/Blademaster/Sidas) hate doing it because it's slow and you have to pack a bunch of extenders into the boot to get the length. Then the hydraulic only moves about a centimeter, so you often have to do the punch in two stages. If you heat the inside of the boot you also have to be careful not to warp the sole - I remember one class at Masterfit where the instructor said he routinely screws the sole to a board when doing a length punch. Wow, time = money, but I guess he charged enough for the service.

Most busy shops have figured out how to do it on a lever press, like the Keyser or SVST, and it takes a fraction of the time. Just be sure to shield the toe lug when heating the shell or it will deform. Also make sure the extra length doesn't affect the static fit or lateral release of the toepiece.

Also make sure you stretch the liner toe; half the time when people complain that a new boot is too short this alone solves the problem. Heat the toe of the liner slowly, if you are lucky and they used a heat sensitive adhesive you can get the vinyl undersole to peel back an inch or so - stretch the toe on a mop handle or something (we use an aluminum version of this supported in a vise or on the lever punch), and push the vinyl back down while it is still warm. You can often get enough extra length to make it feel fine, particularly in liners that aren't lasted all the way to the limit of the shell.

[altacoup]

Also make sure you stretch the liner toe; half the time when people complain that a new boot is too short this alone solves the problem. Heat the toe of the liner slowly, if you are lucky and they used a heat sensitive adhesive you can get the vinyl undersole to peel back an inch or so - stretch the toe on a mop handle or something (we use an aluminum version of this supported in a vise or on the lever punch), and push the vinyl back down while it is still warm. You can often get enough extra length to make it feel fine, particularly in liners that aren't lasted all the way to the limit of the shell.

Thanks for the help. I’m used to skiing in plug boots, so I go for a very aggressive fit. Even in touring boots. But these have been a project and I can tell my big toe is just slammed into the plastic.