United Healthcare CEO shot to death in front of NYC investor meeting

[MagnificentUnicorn]

To bad digitaldeath isn’t posting, he would call you a bootlicker.

He wouldn’t be wrong.

I like how multiverse spouts off about anesthesiologists. I work with anesthesiologists every day and still work with CRNAs, that’s “nurse tech” to you MV. Sure for young healthy patients a CRNA is adequate for elective procedures. For older, sick, injured all of the above, I know who I want taking care of my patients or me. We’re a rural regional hub for specialty care that draws from a rural critical access network of small hospitals serving around 300,000 people. Those hospitals are all staffed with CRNAs. All patients with anything other than good health needing elective surgery come here. Anesthesiologists probably have one of the higher stress jobs in medicine along with heinous work schedules and hours. I would say the pay is commensurate with the job. I’m not an anesthesia provider.


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[J. Barron DeJong]

Profit seeking corporations fucking suck in general, and as such shouldn’t be placed in charge of denying life saving treatment or decisions that could lead financial ruin for 99.9% of the population should they have the right type of bad luck.

Example of suckage:




https://bsky.app/profile/rincewind.r.../3lcvx6jl7oc2l

[MultiVerse]

I like how multiverse spouts off about anesthesiologists. I work with anesthesiologists every day and still work with CRNAs, that’s “nurse tech” to you MV. Sure for young healthy patients a CRNA is adequate for elective procedures. For older, sick, injured all of the above, I know who I want taking care of my patients or me. We’re a rural regional hub for specialty care that draws from a rural critical access network of small hospitals serving around 300,000 people. Those hospitals are all staffed with CRNAs. All patients with anything other than good health needing elective surgery come here. Anesthesiologists probably have one of the higher stress jobs in medicine along with heinous work schedules and hours. I would say the pay is commensurate with the job. I’m not an anesthesia provider.

The average salary for an American anesthesiologist in 2023 was $472,000. Anesthesiologists top out as the highest-paid profession in all of America.

Anesthesiologist providers very often have been found participating in surprise billing and overcharging. As a result state and the federal government passed surprise billing laws, "prices paid to anesthesiologists in hospital outpatient departments and ASCs decreased after these states passed surprise-billing legislation. Their experience offers early insights into how prices may change under the federal No Surprises Act and in states that have recently passed their own legislation."

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2782816

[abraham]

Clutch your pearls harder. Violence will always be an answer, when dialogue breaks down and things get bleak people will resort to violence. I’m not saying that is the case with this murder though. Seems like a kook and not motivated by desperation.


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Pretty sure some Prussian dude had an idea along those lines.

[F#*k you cat]

Luigi Mangione. Arrested at a McDonald's in Altoona PA on various charges. Looks like the cops / feds got the assassin.

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[Conundrum]

Health insurance should prioritize the policy holders needs 1st. And then fight the hospital about overcharges after. If the insurance thinks the hospitals are price gouging, then they can sue the hospital and the hospital, drug provider have to show proof for why something costs as much as it does. this would likely result in standardization of healthcare costs.

Counterpoint. And I'm not saying I believe the following but have thought about what I'm about to say. And I have a great amount of respect for docs and know some great people who are docs. I should probably ask them instead of you knuckleheads.

When is the last time you've heard a doc or hospital say "This is what you need, I'm trained in, but I'm just not going to do it"? I've heard plenty of "Sorry, your insurance company won't approve this procedure so we can't do it". Seems like saying we can do it but won't unless we get paid. Pharmaco..."We have a drug proven to be of major benefit in treating your condition but you can't have it until your insurance says so"...pay me or die bitches. Insurance companies don't administer care. Docs and hospitals do. Maybe they could just administer the care and then have their bloated hospital administration sue the insurance company for the money. If they provided life saving measures, seems like it would play well publically and the powers that be would have to side with the hospitals.

They all want paid but I'm not sure who is pulling the biggest string.

I'm with Otzi. Blow the whole thing up and start over. It needs to happen. And not replaced by the "concepts" being floated right now.

[MultiVerse]

When is the last time you've heard a doc or hospital say "This is what you need, I'm trained in, but I'm just not going to do it"? I've heard plenty of "Sorry, your insurance company won't approve this procedure so we can't do it". Seems like saying we can do it but won't unless we get paid. Pharmaco..."We have a drug proven to be of major benefit in treating your condition but you can't have it until your insurance says so"...pay me or die bitches. Insurance companies don't administer care. Docs and hospitals do. Maybe they could just administer the care and then have their bloated hospital administration sue the insurance company for the money. If they provided life saving measures, seems like it would play well publically and the powers that be would have to side with the hospitals.

A lot of administrators have transitioned to pay based on RVUs (Relative Value Units) as a way to compensate for physician services, including those provided in hospitals. So what's happening is physician's are being pushed to increase the volume of work and volume of billing to generate more revenue. The more RVUs a provider bills, the more reimbursement they receive.

When you hear providers talk about increased workloads and all the EHR electronic paperwork etc, a lot of it has to do with billing and RVUs. A good speech by Johns Hopkins dr. Marty Makary:

"We are so busy in our health care system billing and coding and paying each other and every stakeholder has their gigantic lobby in Washington D.C. and everybody's making a lot of money except for one stakeholder, the American citizen. They are financing this giant expense of health care system through their paycheck deduction for health insurance and the Medicare exercise tax as we go down this path of billing and coding and medicating."

[Vt-Freeheel]

[Core Shot]

The average salary for an American anesthesiologist in 2023 was $472,000. Anesthesiologists top out as the highest-paid profession in all of America.
an[/url]

Bullshit

https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-...areers-1735995

Although it’s sad that Derm outranks gas passers.

[bennymac]

Sure, here's a Canadian example of woman who is diagnosed with cancer and told she has maybe 2 years to live and that she is not a candidate for surgery but Canada would provide medical help committing suicide. The woman decides to consult with foreign doctors and get treatment in Baltimore.

“Universal healthcare really doesn’t exist,” Ducluzeau said. “My experience is it’s ‘do it yourself’ health care and GoFundMe health care:

https://globalnews.ca/news/10118619/...united-states/

That story shows that she was diagnosed sometime in December - then saw a surgeon in January to discuss whether or not to do HIPEC surgery - and that surgeon said she wasn’t a candidate. HIPEC was available - just this particular surgeon’s opinion was that it wasn’t appropriate for her.

She went for a second opinion and this surgeon disagreed and said she is a candidate.

She received the surgery but wishes the original surgeon had felt she was an appropriate candidate.

It makes zero mention of whether or not she went for a second opinion in her home country
- the costs of which would be covered by her universal health care coverage.

It’s an interesting story - and it does expose failings that system for how slow it was for her to see a medical oncologist (not a surgeon).

But you now should follow through to the end of what you were stating by proving how the original surgeons medical decision was based on the cost of the procedure - I don’t see how this news article proves or even suggests that.

[JimmyCarter]

[ATTACH]5[emoji4][emoji45]4[emoji44][/ATTACH]

[MultiVerse]

That story shows that she was diagnosed sometime in December - then saw a surgeon in January to discuss whether or not to do HIPEC surgery - and that surgeon said she wasn’t a candidate. HIPEC was available - just this particular surgeon’s opinion was that it wasn’t appropriate for her.

She went for a second opinion and this surgeon disagreed and said she is a candidate.

She received the surgery but wishes the original surgeon had felt she was an appropriate candidate.

It makes zero mention of whether or not she went for a second opinion in her home country.

It’s an interesting story - and it does expose failings in how slow it was for her to see an oncologist (not a surgeon)

But you now should follow through to the end of what you were stating by proving how the original surgeons medical decision was based on the cost of the procedure - I don’t see how this news article proves or even suggests that.

A woman with aggressive stage four cancer called BC Cancer to ask how long it might be to see the oncologist and was told it could be weeks, months, or longer, they had no idea.

Two-and-a-half months after receiving her diagnosis and told that she may only have two months to two years to live she managed to finagle a telephone appointment with an oncologist at BC Cancer.

[bennymac]

You get the difference between the surgeon and the oncologist right?

I mean tell me no if you don’t so I can go spend time doing something better

[donutlynx]

Can't be real? I mean... tell me you're a complete clown Elom, without telling me you're a complete clown.

[MultiVerse]

You get the difference between the surgeon and the oncologist right?

I mean tell me no if you don’t so I can go spend time doing something better

Right, the surgeon at the BC Cancer Agency in January, told her she was not a candidate for surgery. She wasn't able to talk to a Canadian oncologist (i.e. a second opinion) until months later

Meanwhile a foreign oncologist confirmed that HIPEC was best chance of success and so she had the surgery done in America by paying for it out of pocket.

[bennymac]

Right, the surgeon at the BC Cancer Agency in January, told her she was not a candidate for surgery. She wasn't able to talk to an oncologist until months later

Correct. You get that the oncologist isn’t the surgeons boss right?

Two surgeons disagreed on what treatment she was a candidate for.

Now show us how that proves that this treatment is one of those “most advanced/expensive treatments only available in the US” and/or that she was denied the HIPEC in Canada because of its cost

[MultiVerse]

You're being willfully obtuse. With stage four cancer time is crucial. Some health care systems ration based on ability to pay and some health care system ration based on time. In a race against time, the fact that she had to seek out a second opinion and get the procedure done in a foreign country speaks to both cost and availability of advanced treatment

[bennymac]

You’re using a sad story that exposes real flaws in access to medical oncology care of a single patient to back up your claim that the best care is often denied to a patient in a universal health care system because of its cost.

You’re using a N of 1 story, reported in the media, not understanding/getting confused by the details, stretching that out to support your wide ranging claim that appears to now be based solely on feelings, and then calling me obtuse for criticizing your inability to back up your statements with hard facts.

Yes - she should be able to see an oncologist sooner than she did. Can’t defend that - and that is a system cost (not having enough oncologists) that is a clear failing.

[climberevan]

Can't be real? I mean... tell me you're a complete clown Elom, without telling me you're a complete clown.

We have (had?)a whole thread dedicated to determining whether Elmo is a complete clown. It was established some time ago that the answer is a definitive yes.

[MultiVerse]

You’re using a sad story that exposes flaws in access to oncology care of a single patient to back up your claim that the best care is often denied in a universal health care system because of its cost.

You’re using a N of 1 story, reported in the media, not understanding/getting confused by the details, stretching that out to support your wide ranging claim that appears to now be based solely on feelings, and then calling me obtuse for criticizing your inability to back up your statements with hard facts.

lol, literally said you wanted an example, I provided an example:

Can you provide examples please

And this is the correct takeaway from the example:

Yes - she should be able to see an oncologist sooner than she did. Can’t defend that - and that is a system cost (not having enough oncologists) that is a clear failing.

[bennymac]

lol,, you wanted an example, I provided an example:

Yeah that is 100% on me for saying “examples” (you provided one but either didn’t read it or couldn’t understand it) instead of asking for factual proof. My bad.

In my defense I did say “examples” - but I retract that request for the sake of anyone still reading this thread.

[Dantheman]

I'm going to go ahead and post this again in case anyone actually wants to know why we pay so much much more for healthcare than the rest of the developed world and what we get and do not get for that money (spoiler: it's complicated).

https://peterattiamd.com/saumsutaria/

[altacoup]

https://youtu.be/OtxHtGkA?si=VVa[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]gA-kh[emoji6]O_E[emoji6]O

Should’ve put this great song in this thread earlier


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[Danno]

.

[MultiVerse]

Yeah that is 100% on me for saying “examples” (you provided one but either didn’t read it or couldn’t understand it) instead of asking for factual proof. My bad.

In my defense I did say “examples” - but I retract that request for the sake of anyone still reading this thread.

I mean, despite all your thunting you still came to the same conclusion as me:

"Yes - she should be able to see an oncologist sooner than she did. Can’t defend that - and that is a system cost (not having enough oncologists) that is a clear failing."

So what's your point again?

Bullshit

https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-...areers-1735995

Although it’s sad that Derm outranks gas passers.

US News says Anesthesiologist was highest paying healthcare job for 2023