PE’s role in ruining ski towns

[old goat]

Now y'all know how the Indrians felt.
What the article described is the story of the West since Lewis and Clark. Or America since Jamestown. PE doesn't have a monopoly on greed and corruption. I don't know what the law is in Montana but hopefully there is an answer--incorporation, so that local residents can get control of the planning process. But that requires locals to do more than bitch--vote, run for town council, sit through endless meetings and read endless briefing papers. Incorporation has helped Truckee--to a degree. There are a lot fewer McMansions going up and a lot more multifamily housing. The development community is overrepresented in town government because that's who's willing to run and serve, because that's who's most directly affected by town decisions.

[Buster Highmen]

The development community is overrepresented in town government because that's who's willing to run and serve, because that's who's most directly affected by town decisions.

Everyone is affected, it's just that the developers profits are more directly affected.

But blaming the politicians isn't the answer, it's the electorate who's to blame.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Private equity's effect on super high end real estate is crazy. Like, there are super rich people, who have so much money they literaly can't find things to do with it, so there are ultra luxury high rises built, in places like hong kong, new york, etc, that aren't even lived in AT ALL, even as vacation homes, or rentals or anything. They are strictly used as an asset, a commodity, from before they're even designed, its pretty much known no one will even live in them.

Meanwhile the homeless population keeps going up.
Do we still have more empty housing units than homeless people or did we finally put enough people out on the street to fix that metric?

[romeo tango]

lucky for me I live in one of the last small, rural towns in the west
with a lift-served mountain 8 miles up the road that hasn't been over-run by the dirtpimps,
yet ....

the GF wants to sell her house in a small development adjacent to the ski area.
I advise her to just wait a few more years, at least until the presidential election is over ....

like the homeboys in AK used to tell me: "this is reality dude"

.

[TBS]

Buddy of mine is quoted in reference to Tim Blixeth, “very much a chode”.......

My employer had business dealings with Blixseth in the 80s. It did not end well. Neither did his next timber company venture, before he did the land swaps to create YC.

“Flamboyant Flake” and “very much a chode” are apt descriptions. I would add “egomaniacal serial fuckup”.

He always did three things well though:
(1) figuring out profitable timberland swaps
(2) talking investors out of money
(3) looting sinking businesses

[Meadow Skipper]

not really that old. they used to give a heck of a lot more lip service, and there used to be a heck of a lot less wealth accumulation via legal insider trading, and a heck of a lot less authoritarian laws with bipartisan support. There was a huge shift after 9 11 and there has been another huge shift in the last few years. its just in this election become athing that they want to skip primaries, or only give you one person to choose in the primaries, etc. They used to pretend the representative aspect of our democracy was basically representative, now they'renot even bothering with pretending that they aren't just saying yea, heres your new president we chose you peasants.

but ok yea i get that you feel cynicism is cool or whatever. or you just can't see past 'save the ski bums'

You didn’t do too well in history classes, did you? History didn’t start with 9/11.

Read this, moran.
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...60#post7072960

[stuckathuntermtn]

My employer had business dealings with Blixseth in the 80s. It did not end well. Neither did his next timber company venture, before he did the land swaps to create YC.

“Flamboyant Flake” and “very much a chode” are apt descriptions. I would add “egomaniacal serial fuckup”.

He always did three things well though:
(1) figuring out profitable timberland swaps
(2) talking investors out of money
(3) looting sinking businesses

The last 2 make him sound perfect for PE!

[evdog]

This is being done on purpose. They want to enslave us all. Own nothing and be happy.

Lack of ski bum opportunities is mildly concerning, but what will this country look like when there is literally no middle class?

The ironic thing is by taking action that depresses wages, big business and PE firms are reducing their overall market because as a population, people have less money to spend. Pay people more, and they will spend more. And revenues overall will increase. But of course no business is guaranteed a piece of that, they would have to compete for it with other spending priorities. While on the other hand, keeping costs low is something they directly and immediately benefit from. It's the tragedy of the commons all over. They will happily bleed us dry. Stock prices are based on future revenue growth, so what will happen when they have acquired all the competition and can't increase prices anymore because the middle class has no more money to spend on continued price increases? Curious what the end game is.

They are ruining healthcare, too.

Came across this article tonight. Timely, in light of this thread. PE is ruining veterinary services too. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...dustry/678180/

A friend of mine is the general manager of a vet hospital in OR that is owned by private equity. Can't remember how many hospitals and vet offices they own but it is a lot. As the article says once acquired by PE, prices for services at a vet practice get jacked up and there is pressure on staff to sell additional services and tests that may or may not be needed, and with no guarantee that your pet will survive or even get a diagnosis. Payment is required up front and many pet owners can't afford it, leaving them with a tough choice to put the pet down or let it go without treatment. Vets want to help pets recover and an independent practice might give discounts or work with the owner to provide the needed services for a sick or injured pet. PE owned practices often aren't allowed much flexibility to do that, because #profits. Imagine dealing with that as a vet day in day out. We could help but... you can't afford it. Sorry! My friend said one of the unknown stories out there is the high rate of suicides among veterinarians and vet staff. But that's ok right, because the PE firm is making great returns on their investments!


The other one I came across is physiotherapy practices. The place I was referred to after ACL surgery a few years ago looked like a small independent practice but was actually part of a 4,000+ office network owned by PE. Just like with vet practices they often keep the original practice names rather than apply a national brand name to hide the fact it is PE or corporate owned. I only found out because the manager of the place was complaining about all the paperwork he has to do now and that they are limited in how much time they are allowed to spend with each patient, regardless of need. (Insurance companies are also involved in the fuckery there. My coverage was cut off because I reported zero pain in my knee, which isn't the point. Physio is meant to regain strength and range of motion, not reduce pain. I was not yet at full ROM or strength but was told I could definitely pay out of pocket to continue rehab.)


And of course don't forget Dollar General, Dollar Tree and Family Dollar (owned by Dollar Tree) all of which were owned by PE for a time and are now publicly traded. When you run out of other things to ruin, lets open stores in every small town in America that put mom and pop stores out of business and cause and perpetuate economic distress.

This quote from Wiki sums it up pretty well:

Dollar General, along with other dollar store chains, while "sometimes [filling] a need in cash-strapped communities" where supermarkets have closed, are regarded not "merely a byproduct of economic distress. They're a cause of it." Dollar store chains, in "capitalizing on a series of powerful economic and social forces—white flight, the recent recession, the so-called "retail apocalypse"—all of which have opened up gaping holes in food access...might not be causing these inequalities per se, they appear to be perpetuating them". The rapid growth in dollar stores across the USA have created food deserts and a "dollar store belt". Originally opened with local tax incentives, a number of municipalities have been adding zoning bylaws to discourage dollar stores. According to a study done by the Institute for Local Self-Reliance, dollar stores tend to create fewer and lower wage jobs than independent grocery stores. The report claims that dollar stores stifle local competition, thereby hurting the communities they are serving.

[Foggy_Goggles]

The question is whether there's really an infinite supply of people willing to put up with the disrespect, low wages and shitty living conditions.

Fuck, I'm priced out of Telluride as well as every other major ski town.

I think the honest answer to the first part is yes. I try and only speak to what I know but here in the old Fraser River Valley, my vision of the future is as follows. The ski area has already built the largest apartment building in the county to house its employees. By all accounts, its a pretty nice place. On balance, these folks seem happy. I see them at the ski area, gym and so on. WP is a pretty good employer. So the work as a lifty, ski a bunch, party with your friends model seems sustainable.

On the Food and Beverage side, this has all been farmed out to a concessionaire https://www.levyrestaurants.com/ Most of the management/supervisory staff have quit. They pay shit wages, have a big H1B visa program and generally operate outside the realm of our community. I go to the ski area to ski, I think I have bought 2 slices and 1 beer this year so I'm not the expert but people say not having the friendly local bar tender and Peps probably closing sucks.

Where the ski area will struggle is when the 35-50 year old crowd (my friends) that are in the operations management, skill labor type jobs (supervisors, senior patrollers, lift mechanics and so on) age out. These folk got in a while ago and have stable housing generally with a bit of equity. So how this shakes out, I don't know.

We have a new housing initiative which seems like it will be able to house enough workers to keep the service industry on life support indefinitely. The question to me is what will happen to the middle income contractors, teachers, government employees, managers and small business owners etc. I don't think there will be enough political motivation nor ability to provide subsidized housing for this "missing middle" as they call it in Summit. This is basically the model that is in place in the RFV where you have rich people that own market rate housing and everyone else that either commutes long distances so lives in subsidized housing.

Regarding the electorate needing to step up, I'm which ya. Some other time, I'll link the bio's of the canditates for commissioner. I just say that it will be different. The Gen X former ski bums are stepping it up. Go to the meetings, try to be a bit informed, keep it resptectful and let 'r rip. Fundamentally, I wish that many of the complainers would understand property use by right. The straight anti-development crowd loves to discount a. living wage jobs in the construction industry as a mechanism by which a lot of long term "doing well" residents pay their bills. and b. The owners of property zoned residential really do have a right to build. There are regulations to be followed and the general philosophy is that development pays their way.

The pull up the drawbridge, I got here first crowd, does our community no favors because, if forced to take sides, it tend to be anything but those assholes.

And the ski area really is trying to expand which I like. People need to look a Full Steam Ahead to get an idea of what WP may look like in the future.

[byates1]

^ perfect take.

I'm in McCall ID now at a seasonal fancy place. Private member only club. You have to own a 3-30M house for me to scramble you sysco eggs.

400 employees in max summer capacity, over 225 beds.

Big sky is aiming for a bed for every employee?

It is ruined. But like above, it's also reality.

Redneck local chick in tears in the dining room the other morning, can't find housing even though she's 4th gen in this valley.

I wonder, spending from 20yrs old to 50 pounding Busch light by the campfire, smoking cartons of cigs, living paycheck to paycheck. When is it your fault you dont or can't own here?

The hard reality is unless you have generational wealth, tell the kids they have to start immediately saving. Spend your 20s and 30s pissing in the wind, and you'll find yourself w nothing in he bank and covered in Busch light piss at 40.

[Buster Highmen]

I spent my 20s and 30s pissing in academia, living month to month studying and creating algebraic topology, the most useless kind of math. But I was able and lucky enough to climb out of it.

The opportunities I had are much scarcer now and that's not the fault of the kids in their teens and 20s now.

My rents bitd were around $50-70 a month in Portland, Eugene, Cambridge and Seattle, 1975-1985. A weekday seasons pass at Alpental was $80. I didn't create that and it's not todays kids fault that shit is so much more expensive.

[TBS]

The last 2 make him sound perfect for PE!

Oh he tried early stage software investing too. Started a software company that was supposed to find hidden patterns/objects in videos. Was trying to sell it to US intelligence community for some absurd amount (like $100 million IIRC).

It turned out to be vaporware.

[byates1]

I spent my 20s and 30s pissing in academia, living month to month studying and creating algebraic topology, the most useless kind of math. But I was able and lucky enough to climb out of it.

The opportunities I had are much scarcer now and that's not the fault of the kids in their teens and 20s now.

My rents bitd were around $50-70 a month in Portland, Eugene, Cambridge and Seattle, 1975-1985. A weekday seasons pass at Alpental was $80. I didn't create that and it's not todays kids fault that shit is so much more expensive.

It's a different world. Got to adapt. Kids have to grind young. Unless they are driving a g wagon w a metal amex at 22. Then fuck it bro piss wherever you want!

[Buster Highmen]

It's a different world. Got to adapt. Kids have to grind young. Unless they are driving a g wagon w a metal amex at 22. Then fuck it bro piss wherever you want!

The problem with your narrative is that it lays the blame entirely on todays kids. That's mostly just false. And hopeless for those without generational wealth.

The blame falls more squarely on those with generational wealth who have, via PE, political manipulation and the stock market, driven raises in cost of living expenses and destroyed thousands of small businesses : https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...panies/675788/

Across the economy, private-equity firms are known for laying off workers, evading regulations, reducing the quality of services, and bankrupting companies while ensuring that their own partners are paid handsomely

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/28/o...te-equity.html .


Companies bought by private equity firms are far more likely to go bankrupt than companies that aren’t. Over the last decade, private equity firms were responsible for nearly 600,000 job losses in the retail sector alone. In nursing homes, where the firms have been particularly active, private equity ownership is responsible for an estimated — and astounding — 20,000 premature deaths over a 12-year period, according to a recent working paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research. Similar tales of woe abound in mobile homes, prison health care, emergency medicine, ambulances, apartment buildings and elsewhere. Yet private equity and its leaders continue to prosper, and executives of the top firms are billionaires many times over.


I don't understand what comfort laying the blame on the hoi polloi brings.

[tang]

Crazy Mtns are going to be the next uber-rich private refuge it sounds like. I guess they're already gummed up with mostly private land - but sounds like another land swap in the works to wall a big chunk off as a private redoubt/playground.

[byates1]

I'm not at all blaming kids. At all. Just realizing it's all fucked, and a more harsh reality for today's youth. I agree w all your points.

I'm order to start building capital these days id buy a total shit box rent it out sleep in my car learn to build/do everything, in 10 yrs now you can start accumulating more property. And this is outside of the aspens and Jacksons.

[byates1]

^ totally. I'm heading back to bzn next week. Worked at CA ranch last year, billionaire Houston oil guy. CA is 64000 acres. He's got 7000 acres ranch in the crazies. And 5 other ranches in Texas.

I worked 4 days , found out they lied about what they were going to pay me, and bounced.

[Buster Highmen]

I'm not at all blaming kids. At all. Just realizing it's all fucked, and a more harsh reality for today's youth. I agree w all your points.

You narrative sure sounds like you're blaming those not able to afford:

"spending from 20yrs old to 50 pounding Busch light by the campfire, smoking cartons of cigs, living paycheck to paycheck. When is it your fault you dont or can't own here?"

I'm order to start building capital these days id buy a total shit box rent it out sleep in my car learn to build/do everything, in 10 yrs now you can start accumulating more property. And this is outside of the aspens and Jacksons.

Point being that even shitboxes are harder and harder to acquire due to prices set by low interest rates over the last 30 years and the expense of loans now with interest rate much higher. Who's to blame there?

[NBABUCKS1]

this is turning into a housing thread and I think all the millennials and zoomers are waiting for the boomers to die with their 2.5 houses they bought on a single janitorial salary that are now worth millions.

will it solve the issue? hardly. Will it free up housing stock, hopefully.

[Conundrum]

^ perfect take.

I'm in McCall ID now at a seasonal fancy place. Private member only club. You have to own a 3-30M house for me to scramble you sysco eggs.

Whitetail was a cool place to hang out during the Great Recession. They didn't really check membership status then. Heard the out of state new crop of members is really harshing the mellow. Don't overcook the eggs. They don't tolerate overcooked eggs.

[byates1]

^ well the beauty of me being independently wealthy is if you don't like it I don't care. I've already given notice, back to Bozeman next week. The place is fine just one guy I'm working w is an alcoholic neurotic micromanaging retard, which I don't need to tolerate.

Nice seeing McCall though. I'll be back to ski the trees midweek at brundage w 12 other ppl next season.

[byates1]

You narrative sure sounds like you're blaming those not able to afford:

If you drink yourself to death and save nothing obliviously thinking you can buy a nice house for 115k in a lake town I can't help you.

[Buster Highmen]

Once more: don't blame the chickens for the state of the chicken coop.

I don't mean to be personal, but it's a narrative I find misleading and irritating.

Whirled peas.

Out.

[plugboots]

Buster, I’m with you, but this electorate is just completely fucked. It isn’t going to change things when they have no idea it’s even happening, or have no idea what’s going on.

[Conundrum]

To be fair, I probably know the people byates is talking about by name. They were never going to buy a house, or at least keep it. They just need something to bitch about during the hours a day sober enough to realize their situation.