3 dead in Washington Cascades

[romeo tango]

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ON at the car,
OFF at the bar
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[GoldMember]

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ON at the car,
OFF at the bar
.

That's always been the mantra. It's not helping much to not have it on. Not like you're saving a lot of battery life.

[Jonathan S.]

They were 60 something year olds from Jersey. What could possibly go wrong?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a "trip of a lifetime" may have had something to do with their decision making on this one. Sort of like weekend warriors that decide to go into unfavorable conditions on Mount Washington in New Hampshire because it's the weekend damnit and they've been wanting to do this for years.

The technical term for that is:

Vacation Alpinism

I've definitely succumbed a bit to "V.A." on my PNW summer ski trips, although now that I've racked up more and more years of two four-day PNW summer ski trips each year, I can reassure myself that, eh, whatever, I'll be back next month, or next year, no need to push the limits (i.e., if the calendar says summer but the conditions say otherwise).

V.A. definitely explains this PNW climbing tragedy:

https://www.oregonlive.com/clackamas...tempts_tw.html

At first, the widespread reaction was similar, along the lines of, they were young guys from TX and NY, what could possibly go wrong?
(I'll admit to thinking the same thing too initially at the time!)

But turned out they were skilled technical climbers. (Real climbers, not just winter hikers. Way beyond my alu crampons + ice axe for sure.)
They had a narrow weather window that anyone local would have reasonably decided was just too narrow, i.e., eh, let's all reschedule for another weekend.
Came so close to getting away with it. But not quite.
(IIRC, w/o revisiting all the stories, one body was found in a snow shelter near the summit. The other two probably fell to their deaths trying to descend down some couloir on the north side. National media attention was massive, perhaps just to focus on something other than various bad int'l news stories at the time, and perhaps also b/c so easy for television crews to hang out at Timberline, but the climbers' fates were unknown for awhile as search efforts were hampered, and a cell phone ping was successful, so events played out quite dramatically in real time.)

[Jonathan S.]

Not clear how the safety gear would have helped. I assume you mean beacon, probe, shovel.
More important than safety gear, imo, is knowing the snow conditions beforehand and verifying with snow pits. Even though when you climb a couloir, and it releases above you, even snow pits are not very useful.

Agreed on the second paragraph of course.
Regarding the first paragraph, even though with hindsight that might be correct in this particular incident, I am reminded of an excellent presentation on climber avalanche issues by Dale Atkins at ESAW several years ago, specifically one slide that stated (although I might have some of the wording a bit off):
"In potential avalanche terrain, you have the responsibility to be searchable and to be able to search."

And as we say in economics speak, beacon-probe-shovel is Signalling:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalling_(economics)

[Jonathan S.]

.
ON at the car,
OFF at the bar
.

I just turn mine on as soon as I put it on my body.
And I put it on my body as soon as I put on my shirt in the morning.
Sure my shredded wheat & grape nuts are unlikely to bury me at breakfast (which makes for humorous comments from touring partners), but that makes one less thing to forget -- and there are just so many other things to forget on a ski outing, ugh.

[XXX-er]

why the fuck wouldn’t you turn a beacon on? sar/first responders will do a beacon search and find your dead body far faster with a beacon than via probe line.

the high cost of batteries ?

even tho beacon batteries last a few weeks ime

[powdork]

why the fuck wouldn’t you turn a beacon on? sar/first responders will do a beacon search and find your dead body far faster with a beacon than via probe line.

If I'm dead, I'd rather stay in the mountains. Cheaper than having my body dragged out then my kids having to pay to have me cremated so they can then put me back in the mountains. Hopefully the animals will figure out how to get around all the gear I'd have on.

Regarding the beacon I never said I was wearing it, I said it was with me. It wouldn't be on because in that scenario it's in my pack.

If I'm with others it's on at the car and then a beacon check

[plugboots]

Lots of sad stuff here, but they coulda climbed somewhere else right nearby. It must’ve seemed ok until it wasn’t.

[Hacksaw]

If I'm dead, I'd rather stay in the mountains. Cheaper than having my body dragged out then my kids having to pay to have me cremated so they can then put me back in the mountains. Hopefully the animals will figure out how to get around all the gear I'd have on.

Sheriff's don't like leaving dead bodies in the mountains to rot.

[XXX-er]

I just turn mine on as soon as I put it on my body.
And I put it on my body as soon as I put on my shirt in the morning.
Sure my shredded wheat & grape nuts are unlikely to bury me at breakfast (which makes for humorous comments from touring partners), but that makes one less thing to forget -- and there are just so many other things to forget on a ski outing, ugh.

This ^^ I do the same, worrying about battery life on an aviy beacon is a great example of false economy

who remembers people complaining cuz they were'nt suposed to use rechargables in their beacons ?

OTOH I have walked down the hall at the glacier lodge in rogers pass at 5 pm to see how many signals i could pick up and there were quite a few beer drinking BC skiers in BC still squawking

alwasy turn that beacon off for the next time you need it, and carry spare batteries

[snoqpass]

Sheriff's don't like leaving dead bodies in the mountains to rot.

Plus you are pretty gnarly looking after couple months under the snow and then slowly melt out and hopefully parts of you haven't been scattered all over by critters. With global warming you probably won't end up like the iceman

[powdork]

Sheriff's don't like leaving dead bodies in the mountains to rot.

In general, sheriffs are assholes.

[powdork]

You guys can do what you want, and when I'm alone, I'll do what I want. How about that?

[XXX-er]

That statement ^^ is so rugged-american-individualist, sure do what you want even be a dumb ass, until yer dead and they will come looking for you

[frorider]

PD, maybe some sort of DNR document (where the R stands for rescue or resuscitate) left on your dashboard at the trailhead?

[XXX-er]

those sherrifs are all assholes and will just ignore it

[Cisco Kid]

If I'm dead, I'd rather stay in the mountains. Cheaper than having my body dragged out then my kids having to pay to have me cremated so they can then put me back in the mountains. Hopefully the animals will figure out how to get around all the gear I'd have

Have you spoken with your wife, kids and mom about that scenario? Might ease the sting if the worst happens.

[brutah]

Imagine going up to colchuck lake one summer, you hike the 4 miles and 2000 vert into the lake. After a rest at the lake, you decide to explore a little before heading back down the trail. And then you find that dead asshole's body that wanted their body left up there......

Sounds pleasant, what a nice thing to leave behind. Makes finding people's poops seem almost pleasant...

[XXX-er]

I'm pretty sure it ^^ would be in contravention of some environmental act to just leave a body up thar ?

[LHutz Esq]

Arguably in BC, the executor could be liable for not complying with the Cremation, Internment and Funeral Services Act that says a body has to be disposed of by internment in a proper place or cremation at a crematorium.

I was going to go full Viking flaming long boat funeral- until I looked it up. Now it will have to be my already cremated remains only.

Save money on a smaller boat though so that’s good.

[XXX-er]

whatever you do watch out for the wind

[Core Shot]

Arguably in BC, the executor could be liable for not complying with the Cremation, Internment and Funeral Services Act that says a body has to be disposed of by internment in a proper place or cremation at a crematorium.

I was going to go full Viking flaming long boat funeral- until I looked it up. Now it will have to be my already cremated remains only.

Save money on a smaller boat though so that’s good.

That’s super Fucked up.

I always wanted a pyre

[powdork]

Imagine going up to colchuck lake one summer, you hike the 4 miles and 2000 vert into the lake. After a rest at the lake, you decide to explore a little before heading back down the trail. And then you find that dead asshole's body that wanted their body left up there......

Sounds pleasant, what a nice thing to leave behind. Makes finding people's poops seem almost pleasant...

If I was skiing around Colchuck Lake the beacon would be on and turned on. I'm not an idiot, regardless of Cisco Kid's sweeping generalization.

[adrenalated]

I just turn mine on as soon as I put it on my body.
And I put it on my body as soon as I put on my shirt in the morning.
Sure my shredded wheat & grape nuts are unlikely to bury me at breakfast (which makes for humorous comments from touring partners), but that makes one less thing to forget -- and there are just so many other things to forget on a ski outing, ugh.

I'm going to make an argument for not doing this but not for the reason you think.

My beacon goes on my body as soon as I put my pants on - because I carry in a pants pocket. But I don't turn it on until I'm at the trailhead.

Why? Because I do a full four function beacon check with my partners. I like D'BEST. Display, Electronics, Battery, Search, Transmit. Sure I could check Display and Battery when I turn it on at home but it's best to actually go through all of it with my partners so that we ALL know that everyone's beacon is fully functioning.

When I go solo I use my spare beacon at the trailhead to do the exact same check that I would do with others.

As for the "one less thing to forget" - a proper beacon check should never be a thing that you can forget.

[ridge_skier]

https://files.nwac.us/wp-content/upl...dent_Final.pdf

Full report is out.