Alpine bindings - current best?

[Muggydude]

Worth it to swap Warden 13 to sth2 13 toe pieces? For a lighter female skier who skis hard and is getting into freeride comps

Anyone have time on both toe designs?

[carlh]

I have both and the only thing I can notice is the slightly different delta and that sths look cooler.

[Duffman]

Worth it to swap Warden 13 to sth2 13 toe pieces? For a lighter female skier who skis hard and is getting into freeride comps

I have both Warden 13 and STH 16 mounted on similar size skis (100ish mm). Haven't noticed any real difference skiing them.

[jakezee]

Is there a reason that you specifically settled on SPX rockerace? Pretty sure there are DIY fixes to both of those problems, but the juice probably isn’t worth the squeeze when there are solid stock options that would work just as well at a similar/better price point (and some of them even come in green)


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Pretty much because I really like everything about the pivot 15/18 but I want more BSL flexibility: With the solid, one piece toe with nothing to adjust but the din, this seems like the next best thing.
Green is cool, but I was just pointing out that the greens aren't on the site with the better price - I'd get the white/blues.

[obi wan kenobi]

Arild had been looking at mounting those on flat skis. Apparently some guys on SkiTalk have done it.

Yes I saw it as well on SkiTalk. I gave it a try and went all the way and mounted them on flat skis without the plate. I also did interchange SPX brakes with the housing of the rockerrace brakes as seen on SkiTalk. That was also quite easy. As a result I have a green rockerrace with 120mm brakes.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Pretty much because I really like everything about the pivot 15/18 but I want more BSL flexibility: With the solid, one piece toe with nothing to adjust but the din, this seems like the next best thing.
Green is cool, but I was just pointing out that the greens aren't on the site with the better price - I'd get the white/blues.

FWIW, next years Pivot 15 has a new heel design with more BSL adjustment range (don’t recall how much more).

[whyturn]

FWIW, next years Pivot 15 has a new heel design with more BSL adjustment range (don’t recall how much more).

More than 7-8 mm Wow weird Still a pivot fan


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[1000-oaks]

Worth it to swap Warden 13 to sth2 13 toe pieces? For a lighter female skier who skis hard and is getting into freeride comps

STH2 toe has way more elasticity than the Warden, which barely grabs the boot lug with the toe wing rollers. Only need to drill two holes to make the change. It's a personal thing, but I hated the almost-flat ramp on the Warden (when using ZeroG boot) and ditched them for Griffon ID for use with both alpine and AT boots.

Hmmm...this is in the description: "Its only compatible with R22-plate-equipped skis and ISO 5355 A boots."

I mounted a pair of Rockerace-15 flat on Katana 108 with no issues. The R22 plate is a couple mm higher in the toe area than the heel, which means the toe wings won't push the boot lug down against the AFD quite as firmly as if the binding was mounted on the plate (the longer the boot sole, they less of an effect), but I don't notice any slop.

FWIW, next years Pivot 15 has a new heel design with more BSL adjustment range (don’t recall how much more).

https://www.skitalk.com/threads/upda...ot-info.32928/

[gaijin]

Boy— that was a lot of talk for “I don’t know how to stab the tail of my ski into the snow in order to click in when in powder.”

This is what happens when your shop guys spend more time in the shop than on the hill.

Yes, we need shop rats. But Jesus Christ.

We’re skiing over here.


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[DigSki]

Boy— that was a lot of talk for “I don’t know how to stab the tail of my ski into the snow in order to click in when in powder.”

This is what happens when your shop guys spend more time in the shop than on the hill.

Yes, we need shop rats. But Jesus Christ.

We’re skiing over here.


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Haha. I never understood that knock on pivots - isn't this the preferred method for any binding in pow? If I'm up to my nuts in snow there's no way I'm getting my foot high enough to click into a flat ski.

[gregL]

STH2 toe has way more elasticity than the Warden, which barely grabs the boot lug with the toe wing rollers. Only need to drill two holes to make the change. It's a personal thing, but I hated the almost-flat ramp on the Warden and ditched them for Griffon ID for use with both alpine and AT boots.

Interesting, but Warden 13 has 5mm delta and Griffon has 3mm (GripWalk soles, Griffon will have more with ISO 9523 soles). I have tons of days on both Wardens and STH2's and don't notice a difference.

[1000-oaks]

^ With alpine boots, true, not much of a difference in ramp.

But with ZeroG or other AT boot, the Warden toe wings are adjusted way up. In a Griffon ID, the AFD is adjusted way down. Big difference in AT boot toe height.

[MD12]

Markers look lame as hell.

sth and pivots look cool.

pivots ski the best.

clearly not my opinion, just a sky is blue fact.

[Sashko]

I'm looking for new bindings that work with alpine and GW boots.

I'm lightweight (65kg) and have skied this season at 7 dins (lowered from 8.5 because of less risky skiing). I would go pivot 15, but all over the internet, there's info that bindings aren't that reliable at the extremums compared to closer to middle values.

I can get strive 14/attacks2 14/griffon for 130 euros, pivot 12 - 200, 14 - 220 and 15 230.

By the way, the bindings are for sender free 110, and the best color-matched bindings are attacks green or pivot gold. The new pivot2 blue is out of my price range despite also being sweet-looking on this ski.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

They are all reliable within their respective release settings range. I’m not sure if any alpine bindings ski any differently at all, I can’t tell a difference between Salomon, Look/Rossi, Marker or Tyrolia while skiing. Getting clicked into them sure, but they all have a reasonable amount of elasticity.

[XXX-er]

IME they all seem to release about the same but the first year post ACL repair I could not get the heel down on Marker Barons which was not a problem with the Salomons i also own I did more PT and can now get in but its still noticably harder TO get in a marker and i've seen a very small woman not be able to into Marker F10's

[Muggydude]

The idea that bindings shouldn’t be used at the upper or lower end of their DIN range is a myth. They all work just fine at their minimum and max din settings. All the DIN adjustment does is preload a spring, and the max din settings still doesn’t compress the spring all the way.


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[J. Barron DeJong]

I'm not really convinced they don't ski any different. I believe they'll release at the appropriate torque regardless of where you are in the DIN range, but I think the movement through the eleastic range will behave differently if you are at the low end of the range vs the high end of the range vs the middle.

A bike with a coil spring shock certainly feels different when there is a ton of preload vs when there is none.

I'd love to see a torque vs. displacement chart for a binding set at the upper and lower DIN range, but that's not happening.

[XXX-er]

except an end loser at the max and breaking bindings maybe needs something different and often people on the smaller end like kids arent even on the din scale the small enduser I was at a hut with couldn't get the heel down on an F10 so they took the brake off which is not the best idea in the middle of nowhere but I suspect she not was not coming out of that binding

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I’m sure the engineers that designed alpine bindings didn’t think about that. Eyeroll.

Coil springs can be designed and used so that they responds in a linear fashion throughout their design parameters.

[Shorty_J]

I'm looking for new bindings that work with alpine and GW boots.

I'm lightweight (65kg) and have skied this season at 7 dins (lowered from 8.5 because of less risky skiing). I would go pivot 15, but all over the internet, there's info that bindings aren't that reliable at the extremums compared to closer to middle values.

I can get strive 14/attacks2 14/griffon for 130 euros, pivot 12 - 200, 14 - 220 and 15 230.

By the way, the bindings are for sender free 110, and the best color-matched bindings are attacks green or pivot gold. The new pivot2 blue is out of my price range despite also being sweet-looking on this ski.

It's all opinions on here, but in mine, based on elasticity numbers the SPX and pivot are practically identical but the SPX is cheaper, easier to step in to in powder, and easier to swap brakes.

And the din range is like 4 to 13 on this year's I think.

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[arild]

Spx15 rockeraces are fucking awesome. Truly.

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[J. Barron DeJong]

I’m sure the engineers that designed alpine bindings didn’t think about that. Eyeroll. Coil springs can be designed and used so that they responds in a linear fashion throughout their design parameters.

Eyeroll away, but my point isn't that the springs aren't linear.

To get to the same release torque with a soft spring (being at the high end of the DIN range) vs a stiff spring (being at the low end of the DIN range) requires different amounts of preload (more vs less).

With a lot of preload, the binding will be more resistant to initial movement, but will then progress through it elastic range more quickly with increasing torque. With little preload the binding will allow intial movement at a lower torque but will then progress through its elastic range more slowly with increasing torque.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Are you accounting for skier weight and bsl in your binding dissertation? Again, do you think the engineers that design ski bindings haven’t accounted for spring load so that release characteristics remain constant across the din range?

[J. Barron DeJong]

I'm assuming everything about the skier and equipment is the same, except the spring stiffness in the binding.
What I'm saying is that it is impossible to account for, so no, I don't believe they did. What I don't know is how much difference it makes.