The Atomic Ski Boot Thread

[gregL]

Unfortunately our buyers didn't order any . . .

But props to Atomic for actually putting screws and backers in the box . . . Booster take notice!

[SkiLyft]

To be clear, you are comparing a size 26.5 alpine boot to the 27.5 XTD, correct? Not an apples to apples comparison.

But FWIW I have the Ultra and XTD in the same size (older versions) and do recommend alpine boots for lift served skiing. The feel of the flex is just better.

Correct, what I wanted to call attention to is that podcasts like blister made it sound like the Hawx ultra XTD could stand up to lift served skiing due to the full PU construction.

Unfortunately; while it’s an improvement over the prior versions and it’s not there. If this is what you are looking for other manufacturers are building a better 90/10 boot.


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[Robik]

While it's a bit of a drift, for the past few seasons I was pretty happy with a two-boot quiver: Hawx Ultra 130S and Hawx Ultra XTD, both in the same size. While XTD toured just ok and skied really well in BC conditions, it was no match to regular PU Hawx in the resort.
A few days ago I tried new XTD Boa and I was sold on the spot. Somehow, the fit felt better than regular Hawx Ultra, the walk mode was slightly better than non-boa XTD, at least on the carpet. Yesterday I skied the Boa version for a day and it felt just like regular Ultra S with better fit, better heel hold. I'm still getting back into my ski shape so didn't push too hard, but it was damp and precise.
Obviously I won't take it on a tour longer than a few hours so this spot will be filled with (hopefully) Backland XTD.

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[oltrepiave]

ah that’s real good to know, and not too surprising. I’ll see what their return policy is like… as I rarely ever need to remove the liners, so hopefully a set and forget.

i’ve tried lots of butterfly pads, etc, but anything near the heal/ankle just comes off over time


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happy Liner Sleeve user here...
to be honest i think some of the criticism was pretty harsh.

I've been using them since 2020 on old Lange Freetours, Cochise and now hawx ultra xtd. It is true that the neoprene will pack out at some point and become quite sloppy but i hardly ever notice that while skiing and/or touring, i simply see it when i handle the liners. Over the years i have ripped them in multiple sections but then again since i've never damaged the areas where you slide in the pads it is simply aesthetics, nothing functional. I always tour in them and to be fair they have never felt like too much of a liability as far as ROM is concerned.

Here's what i like about them:
- there's nothing being glued to the boot either internally or externally. The sleeve hugs the liner just below the heel so that means that (at least in my experience) it is pretty hard for you to have it moving or rolling up/cuffing itself while skiing or walking. Every time I remove my boots I exit the shell with the liners on and I have never had any serious issue. When i put the liners back into the shell i am pressing everything down vertically so i know that i won't alter where/how the sleeves are positioned. All of this is harder to achieve with L-pads, Butterfly pads etc.

- you get tons of modularity in how snug you want them to fit, especially in the beginning stages where the neoprene outer still hasn't packed out to the max. Over the years given the liners/shells i was using (and how clapped out they were) i have increased the "bulk" by cutting out inserts with different degrees of thickness.

I do think that with certain combinations of boots + liners (eg. an old pair of intuition classic wraps that i tried to use in kryptons and tele boots) they might become a PITA but as far as i'm concerned on classic lace up/tongue liners to be used in classic overlap shells with no instep buckle they work pretty well.

BTW, Just ordered a pair of mimic platinums from the european shop, thank you ONK for the heads up, looking forward to having a second pair.

[GoldenBC]

I've reached out to a few contacts in Canada, I'll let you know what I find out. Stay tuned.

Thanks Matt. Ordered!

[tannyj17]

happy Liner Sleeve user here...
to be honest i think some of the criticism was pretty harsh.

I've been using them since 2020 on old Lange Freetours, Cochise and now hawx ultra xtd. It is true that the neoprene will pack out at some point and become quite sloppy but i hardly ever notice that while skiing and/or touring, i simply see it when i handle the liners. Over the years i have ripped them in multiple sections but then again since i've never damaged the areas where you slide in the pads it is simply aesthetics, nothing functional. I always tour in them and to be fair they have never felt like too much of a liability as far as ROM is concerned.

Here's what i like about them:
- there's nothing being glued to the boot either internally or externally. The sleeve hugs the liner just below the heel so that means that (at least in my experience) it is pretty hard for you to have it moving or rolling up/cuffing itself while skiing or walking. Every time I remove my boots I exit the shell with the liners on and I have never had any serious issue. When i put the liners back into the shell i am pressing everything down vertically so i know that i won't alter where/how the sleeves are positioned. All of this is harder to achieve with L-pads, Butterfly pads etc.

- you get tons of modularity in how snug you want them to fit, especially in the beginning stages where the neoprene outer still hasn't packed out to the max. Over the years given the liners/shells i was using (and how clapped out they were) i have increased the "bulk" by cutting out inserts with different degrees of thickness.

I do think that with certain combinations of boots + liners (eg. an old pair of intuition classic wraps that i tried to use in kryptons and tele boots) they might become a PITA but as far as i'm concerned on classic lace up/tongue liners to be used in classic overlap shells with no instep buckle they work pretty well.

BTW, Just ordered a pair of mimic platinums from the european shop, thank you ONK for the heads up, looking forward to having a second pair.

I got a set of liner sleeves in the mail and will report back. Worst case I ship ‘em back if they don’t work. I like the idea of them.


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[jamal]

I've had my regular alpine hawx 130 ultras pinch my heel a couple times but I have to like, hit a road cut I didn't see coming or something and get thrown forward pretty hard.

I think you can do some light grinding inside the boot to gain some clearance. Also things like heel wedges or thick insoles probably wouldn't help. I'm going to start with some extra foam bits to get a little better heel hold. That fancy foam filled liner seems like it'd be neat though.

[turnfarmer]

Anyone know memory fit oven time for Backland Pro CL with Boa?

[Jtlange]

Just wanted to pop in and once again express my appreciation for the impressive fit and performance of the Ultra Professional boot and the Professional liner in general. Matt and team have done a fantastic job. I have an alpine Ultra Professional I've been skiing since last year and just picked up a XTD Ultra Professional liner with the updated BOA shell. Some observations of differences between the two:

Fit:

Feels very similar between the two, I used the same amount of the cartridge between the two models which was everything possible.

Ultra Professional at initial setup with the foam felt like clamps and have since calmed down into a very solid fit that I am happy with.
XTD is solid but not nearly as tight which will be ideal for an aggressive touring/sidecountry boot. I think I finally have a boot to tour in that wont give me blisters on my heels that I can ski as hard as I want in the backcountry. Previous best before was a Backland Carbon.


Stiffness:

Alpine Ultra Pro is so, so much stiffer. Feels 20 flex points stiffer with no power straps on either. It mashes the resort better than any boot ive had the pleasure of skiing. Plug-like feel without the sadness of a plug boot. I don't know which is a "130 flex boot" but they both are stiff enough for my needs.
XTD has some really nice progression in the shell and I noticed it deforms less (more progression) when you get the BOA cranked.

Other notes:

BOA is really good. I felt that it improved the fit on the boot without crushing my arch. Working as intended.
2mm BSL difference. Alpine Ultra 320mm, XTD Ultra 322mm in the same size shell (28.5)
Interested to get the dual strap on the XTD to see if it gets it a little more oomph to it, if that is even needed
Liners look and feel exactly the same except for the flex zone for walking for the XTD. Tongue appears exactly the same.

That leads me to believe that the difference between the two boots is purely in the shell. Alpine Ultra Professional has significantly stiffer plastic and feels lower volume. XTD fits like the retail version because it is, but the BOA improves the fit without causing problems like buckles do.

Also nothing quite like feeling the foam surround your foot when you're getting the boots set up. Feels like a warm reassuring hug around your ankle.

Overall, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the XTD or Professional liner to anyone but would only recommend the Ultra Professional shell to stronger or more demanding skiers (All of TGR obviously). It has the damping, rebound, and stiffness of a heavy boot without actually being overly heavy.

[GoldenBC]

Great review.

I didn’t realize the Ultra professional was a unique shell. Are you suggesting it is different to the Hawx Ultra RS 130?

[onenerdykid]

Just wanted to pop in and once again express my appreciation for the impressive fit and performance of the Ultra Professional boot and the Professional liner in general. Matt and team have done a fantastic job. I have an alpine Ultra Professional I've been skiing since last year and just picked up a XTD Ultra Professional liner with the updated BOA shell. Some observations of differences between the two:

Overall, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the XTD or Professional liner to anyone but would only recommend the Ultra Professional shell to stronger or more demanding skiers (All of TGR obviously). It has the damping, rebound, and stiffness of a heavy boot without actually being overly heavy.

Great review.

I didn’t realize the Ultra professional was a unique shell. Are you suggesting it is different to the Hawx Ultra RS 130?

Thanks for that detailed review, Jtlange. Super stoked that you are liking the boots, liners, and straps. It's awesome to hear. Hope you get some good snow and can put them through the wringer this season.

Some additional data points from my side, that also answer Golden's question.

I've said that Ultra 130 & Ultra XTD 130 use the same injection material and just to make sure I wasn't on crazy pills, I just looked at our injection specification (materials & hardnesses) of all 3 boot models (Ultra 130 Professional, Ultra 130 RS, Ultra XTD 130 BOA) - all 3 boots use the same material & hardness in the lower shell, cuff hard component (the spine), and the cuff main component (front half of the cuff).

This means the current Hawx Ultra 130 RS is the same shell & cuff as the no-longer-produced Ultra 130 Professional. So, if someone wants the current, burliest Ultra member, it's that one. Bonus info: the Ultra 130 S uses the same shell & cuff hard component as the RS, but a softer front portion of the cuff which makes step in & step out easier (one of the main complaints Ultra tends to get).

Even though Hawx Ultra 130 RS & Ultra XTD 130 BOA use the same injection materials & hardnesses, the difference in flex/stability between them comes down to some small mold differences but mainly the walk/mode & shell cut-out in the Achilles area. The lack of a solid area back there is primarily what contributes to the noticeable difference in flex, which is generally why fixed cuff boots will always be stiffer/more stable than their hybrid counterparts.

[carlh]

Is the new RS stiffer than the old S (2022) or is the new S softer?

Thanks for that detailed review, Jtlange. Super stoked that you are liking the boots, liners, and straps. It's awesome to hear. Hope you get some good snow and can put them through the wringer this season.

Some additional data points from my side, that also answer Golden's question.

I've said that Ultra 130 & Ultra XTD 130 use the same injection material and just to make sure I wasn't on crazy pills, I just looked at our injection specification (materials & hardnesses) of all 3 boot models (Ultra 130 Professional, Ultra 130 RS, Ultra XTD 130 BOA) - all 3 boots use the same material & hardness in the lower shell, cuff hard component (the spine), and the cuff main component (front half of the cuff).

This means the current Hawx Ultra 130 RS is the same shell & cuff as the no-longer-produced Ultra 130 Professional. So, if someone wants the current, burliest Ultra member, it's that one. Bonus info: the Ultra 130 S uses the same shell & cuff hard component as the RS, but a softer front portion of the cuff which makes step in & step out easier (one of the main complaints Ultra tends to get).

Even though Hawx Ultra 130 RS & Ultra XTD 130 BOA use the same injection materials & hardnesses, the difference in flex/stability between them comes down to some small mold differences but mainly the walk/mode & shell cut-out in the Achilles area. The lack of a solid area back there is primarily what contributes to the noticeable difference in flex, which is generally why fixed cuff boots will always be stiffer/more stable than their hybrid counterparts.

[onenerdykid]

Is the new RS stiffer than the old S (2022) or is the new S softer?

23/24 Ultra 130 RS = 22/23 Ultra 130 S = 22/23 Ultra 130 Professional
23/24 Ultra 130 S is softer than the above.

We wanted to make a boot with easier step in/out but also not get rid of a boot that a lot of skiers liked.

This is unfortunately a raging debate in Euroland where a boot has to say "130" on it but "140" scares people away. I've been banging my head into my desk for the better part of four years over this topic. Making a 130 RS and a 130 S is currently the best way forward.

[arild]

How well does a prime/ultra xtd 130 liner(not professional) fit into a backland XTD?

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[onenerdykid]

How well does a prime/ultra xtd 130 liner(not professional) fit into a backland XTD?

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Not well. It's length is not the same nor is the curvature of the sole. Hawx XTD is flatter, Backland XTD has more rocker to it. Putting the Hawx XTD liner into a Backland XTD usually bends/kinks the liner at the metatarsals.

[arild]

Not well. It's length is not the same nor is the curvature of the sole. Hawx XTD is flatter, Backland XTD has more rocker to it. Putting the Hawx XTD liner into a Backland XTD usually bends/kinks the liner at the metatarsals.

Nice, thanks!

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[Climber Joe]

Where’s the cheapest place to get the XTD cuff angle change thing for the walk mode? I wanna reduce to lowest possible angle, pretty sure it needs the little bracket swapped out right?

I think the stock one is 13/15, and the other option is 11/17 right?

[tannyj17]

Where’s the cheapest place to get the XTD cuff angle change thing for the walk mode? I wanna reduce to lowest possible angle, pretty sure it needs the little bracket swapped out right?

I think the stock one is 13/15, and the other option is 11/17 right?

$50 at skimo https://skimo.co/atomic-boot-parts

but not great. maybe directly through atomic?


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[GoldenBC]

Where’s the cheapest place to get the XTD cuff angle change thing for the walk mode? I wanna reduce to lowest possible angle, pretty sure it needs the little bracket swapped out right?

I think the stock one is 13/15, and the other option is 11/17 right?

For old boot? (New one doesn’t need a flip chip).

Angles on the aftermarket chip are 13/19 with 15/17 being stock.

[arild]

Matt, did I orient the straps correctly? I figured the Raptor straps'd do better on the XTDs, since they're pretty wide, and I didn't really want the rigid upper portion next to the rather thin xtd liner tongues.

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[gregL]

I've had my regular alpine hawx 130 ultras pinch my heel a couple times but I have to like, hit a road cut I didn't see coming or something and get thrown forward pretty hard.

I think you can do some light grinding inside the boot to gain some clearance. Also things like heel wedges or thick insoles probably wouldn't help. I'm going to start with some extra foam bits to get a little better heel hold. That fancy foam filled liner seems like it'd be neat though.

I would avoid grinding, the shell isn't that thick there. The regular Hawx Ultra heel is a fairly straightforward punch for a bootfitter (top of calcaneus) but a bit tricky with an XTD (need to be careful not to distort the walk mode pin base) . . . If you have a Haglund's issue that's oriented toward one side (they are usually skewed toward the lateral) you pretty much need to punch the medial side as well to let the walk mode function properly.

[onenerdykid]

Matt, did I orient the straps correctly? I figured the Raptor straps'd do better on the XTDs, since they're pretty wide, and I didn't really want the rigid upper portion next to the rather thin xtd liner tongues.
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Professional Dual Straps look good!

[GoldenBC]

I would avoid grinding, the shell isn't that thick there. The regular Hawx Ultra heel is a fairly straightforward punch for a bootfitter (top of calcaneus) but a bit tricky with an XTD (need to be careful not to distort the walk mode pin base) . . . If you have a Haglund's issue that's oriented toward one side (they are usually skewed toward the lateral) you pretty much need to punch the medial side as well to let the walk mode function properly.

I used a rigid pad on a clients heel, along with a toecap for rearward pressure, then heat gunned the heels until they were very soft. This actually made a lot of space for the heel. Too much actually. But solved the heel bite.

The pad was in the centre, as was the pain, and I keep the boot in ski mode to keep it aligned. I’m going to keep working this method rather than punching now. I think if it’s a haglunds, I would just do symmetrical padding to keep things square for the walk mode.

[arild]

Professional Dual Straps look good!

They feel very, very good, too! I just realized the top portion of the strap actually isn't rigid, the bottom one is. My bad.

The Head booster actually felt really nice on the XTDs,too. Time will tell if the slight elasticity will make me ski them better, haha.

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[Jason4]

Will the Atomic Dual Strap fit on the XTD easily?