To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[PNWbrit]

Many many vacancies in Spokane for the next couple days. On the Providence website it said I wasn’t eligible and they hadn’t even opened up to tiers 3-4 yet as directed by WA DOH. But Kaiser and all the pharmacies said I was good to go. Getting Moderna #1 next Wednesday, could have done it today but didn’t want to risk messing up my plans for the weekend feeling like poo.

Kaiser only scheduling online for Kaiser members that I can see.

Which is the kind of fuckery that happens when insurance companies own providers.

[altasnob]

Definitely seems like a free for all at this point in WA. You are currently eligible if you are "a current or former cigarette smoker" and are "overweight (defined as a body mass index (BMI) > 25 kg/m2 but < 30 kg/m2)." Note it does not say how much you had to smoke and you do not need to be obese. So if you have ever smoked anything in your life and have some extra chub, you are eligible. My wife was vaccinated weeks ago despite not being eligible because she is a county employee and the county had extra spots to fill and decided to give them to county employees (regardless of eligibility) rather than open it up to the general public. The entire Portland Trailblazer team is vaccinated despite being in their 20s and 30s and impeccably healthy (not sure what makes pro athletes eligible).

[Danno]

Not sure whether this belongs here or in the 'things that amuse you' thread, but I do find it humorous when old hippies question the risk of covid vaccines in light of all the FDA approved drugs consumed 40 years ago.

I don't know about you, but the drugs I took were definitely not FDA approved.

I wish the state and local governments would be a little more forward-thinking with the signup process than just letting/making people hunt for open appointments and get frustrated along the way. People should go to a central website and register, and when you do that it automagically assigns you an appointment to get your shot(s). Those that don't want to be assigned a day/time can then hunt for openings if they wanted to.

I had the same rant in here a few weeks ago. The system or lack thereof that we use is fucking terrible, inequitable, and downright stupid, and we should hold all of our leaders accountable for that (it goes far beyond one person or one party).

Kaiser only scheduling online for Kaiser members that I can see.

Which is the kind of fuckery that happens when insurance companies own providers.

Kaiser around here allowed anyone to sign up on their notification list and supposedly would vaccinate anyone, not just Kaiser members. That said, I don't know anyone who got a vax from there, so maybe they prioritized Kaiser members.

[GoldMember]

Kaiser only scheduling online for Kaiser members that I can see.

Which is the kind of fuckery that happens when insurance companies own providers.

Originally, that's what Providence was going to do. Wife was on a wait list but when the State was allocating vaccines, they told Providence that they had to have open public enrollment or they wouldn't be allocated. She wound up going to Albertsons once she was eligible. Of course, things may have changed since then.

[Mofro261]

My speculation on this is that more than 102 breakthrough cases exist (0.01%) and that the number is quite a bit higher, in line with the clinical trials. That would be more like 60,000 cases than 102. In the trials, the subjects were tested regularly with or without symptoms. In real life application, people aren't being tested unless there's cause so probably the vast majority of breakthroughs aren't tested because they're not exhibiting symptoms or haven't been known to be exposed. That only 102 have been reported, that's the real story here regarding the vaccine's true worth in gaining herd immunity. I think that's the great story on this.

Lets break this down a bit.

We have 102 per ~1.2 Million vaxxed, or roughly 8 per 100,000 who have been vaccinated, that have come down with disease. Let's round to 10, to get 0.01% of those vaccinated being "breakthrough" cases.

The current rate of CoV2 infection in the state of WA is 131/100,000. or 0.13%.

Math says 0.13-0.01/0.13 = a ~93% reduction of infection rate the vaccinated group. Very much right in line with the clinical trials.

There are real life scenarios (healthcare) where vax'd are being tracked by rtPCR weekly regardless of of symptoms, and all of these studies are pretty much saying the same thing.

[SorryBro]

Vaccination site won't let me book an appointment for my son until he actually turns 16. I want to book an appointment now for next week to get ahead of the rush (he's 16 in 5 days). I have a feeling when I open up the scheduler at 7am on his birthday, we are going to be a few weeks out.

Frustrating, although we are keeping him pretty isolated, so I suppose I shouldn't complain that much. Just seems like making an appointment for when he's 16 shouldn't be a big deal.

[old goat]

What was a short time after? I just saw an update on this somewhere? Seems depending on the filter you look through. It's in dispute.

5 hours. I repeat--the autopsy showed he died of a preexisting condition that had nothing to do with the vaccination. There's no dispute unless your filter excludes science. If you want to take the sheriff's word for the cause of death go right ahead, but I bet you'd be worried if you were in an exam room at the VA and some guy with a uniform, badge and gun walked in instead of someone in a white coat with a stethescope.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/investig...250167250.html (I've posted that before)

[nickwm21]

I wish the state and local governments would be a little more forward-thinking with the signup process than just letting/making people hunt for open appointments and get frustrated along the way. People should go to a central website and register, and when you do that it automagically assigns you an appointment to get your shot(s). Those that don't want to be assigned a day/time can then hunt for openings if they wanted to.

There is a huge portion of the population that has mandatory work hours, shift work, specific timely responsibilities, paid hourly and struggling, etc... not everyone pretends to work from home every day....


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[old goat]

My speculation on this is that more than 102 breakthrough cases exist (0.01%) and that the number is quite a bit higher, in line with the clinical trials. That would be more like 60,000 cases than 102. In the trials, the subjects were tested regularly with or without symptoms. In real life application, people aren't being tested unless there's cause so probably the vast majority of breakthroughs aren't tested because they're not exhibiting symptoms or haven't been known to be exposed. That only 102 have been reported, that's the real story here regarding the vaccine's true worth in gaining herd immunity. I think that's the great story on this.

I'm sure the number is higher--it sounds like the 102 cases were all symptomatic; still, it sounds like if you include asymptomatic carriers as vaccine failures the efficacy of the mRNA vaccines is around 90%. (I can't remember if the vaccine in the report was Pfizer or Moderna.)

I would think there will be an announcement soon about which variant the cases had--especially those hospitalized or dying.

In other news, Covid 19 is only the 3rd leading cause of death in the US in 2020. Wonder where it would rank if it hadn't been for business closures, masks, and social distancing. If an amp can go to 11, I would think a cause of death could be higher on the list than 1st.

[Danno]

Vaccination site won't let me book an appointment for my son until he actually turns 16. I want to book an appointment now for next week to get ahead of the rush (he's 16 in 5 days). I have a feeling when I open up the scheduler at 7am on his birthday, we are going to be a few weeks out.

Frustrating, although we are keeping him pretty isolated, so I suppose I shouldn't complain that much. Just seems like making an appointment for when he's 16 shouldn't be a big deal.

Can you game the system and make him 16 now? While everyone's ethics are different, I personally think it's ok to do that so long as he is actually eligible when it's time for his appointment.

There is a huge portion of the population that has mandatory work hours, shift work, specific timely responsibilities, paid hourly and struggling, etc... not everyone pretends to work from home every day....

Not sure if you're arguing against smmokan's point, but a unified system could more easily account for what you describe than the ridiculous hodgepodge that exists now. For ex, the system could allow you to indicate your availability when you register for the system, or it could release appointments in batches in advance and allow those notified a set amount of time to pick their appointment time before releasing it to the next group. The current system is actually far worse to the people whose schedules are more restricted. The folks working from home can hit refresh over and over or figure out the intricacies of the different systems and how to game them, stay up on all the latest scuttlebutt on FB or nextdoor, etc.

[RootSkier]

As someone who has gone through this in a state that is in front of most, it only took about a week to go from a shortage of vaccine appointments to pick a day, pick a time, pick a vaccine. I know it sucks but I am not convinced putting a massive effort into programming how/where everyone gets it would have been a great investment of resources. Better to spend the time/energy/money getting as many shots into arms as fast as possible.

[Danno]

As someone who has gone through this in a state that is in front of most, it only took about a week to go from a shortage of vaccine appointments to pick a day, pick a time, pick a vaccine. I know it sucks but I am not convinced putting a massive effort into programming how/where everyone gets it would have been a great investment of resources. Better to spend the time/energy/money getting as many shots into arms as fast as possible.

I wonder if we tracked vaccinations by income, or vaccinations by race, whether it would look remotely fair and equitable. And our own experiences are anecdotal, but I am someone who was able to navigate the fucked up system and could still see that it was fucked up, as my job and resources allowed me to find an appointment far easier than others.

[SorryBro]

Can you game the system and make him 16 now? While everyone's ethics are different, I personally think it's ok to do that so long as he is actually eligible when it's time for his appointment.

The way the appointments work here require a birthday input during the online appointment that is then checked/printed on the vaccination card when arriving. Dates don't match = no vaccine. I had already thought of that and made the decision that my ethics were not bothered by that scenario. I'm anxious to get Pfeizer into his arm since we aren't sure how he would react to Covid given his health issues in the past. A few more days and my wife and I are going to hit that website as fast as we can.

[PNWbrit]

Vaccination site won't let me book an appointment for my son until he actually turns 16. I want to book an appointment now for next week to get ahead of the rush (he's 16 in 5 days). I have a feeling when I open up the scheduler at 7am on his birthday, we are going to be a few weeks out.

Frustrating, although we are keeping him pretty isolated, so I suppose I shouldn't complain that much. Just seems like making an appointment for when he's 16 shouldn't be a big deal.

If he was 16 today you probably couldn't get an appointment at least a few weeks out anyway...

[BobMc]

I had a positive test and all symptoms in late December to early January. I just got my first shot (after waiting the 90 days since a positive test) two hours ago. So far so good, will report if anything develops.

Sore arm yesterday, woke up today at 2:00am with chills and sweats. Tossed and turned till about 9:00 this morning and then crashed out till 2:00. Fatigue and general lack of ambition now.

Kinda feel like I did when I had covid. Second shot scheduled for April 27th, hopefully no side effects from that one.

[KQ]

LOL!! Just got a text message saying I'm now eligible for the jab.

[KQ]

Don't freak out if you get these side effects from a Covid-19 vaccine. They can actually be a good sign

[GoldMember]

LOL!! Just got a text message saying I'm now eligible for the jab.

What changed?

[KQ]

What changed?

Got me. Guess they're jumping the gun on April 15th

[Ted Striker]

text from who? State? County? Vac site where you're volunteering? Insurance company? Dr?

[Ted Striker]

20 mins ago my 75 yo neighbor told me (without actually saying it) that she's not getting vaccinated.

So anyone feeling conflicted... don't.

Fucking selfish assholes.

[Name Redacted]

I gotta drive to Denver to get my damned free Krispy Kreme. Wtf? Door dash?

[Benny Profane]

I wonder if we tracked vaccinations by income, or vaccinations by race, whether it would look remotely fair and equitable. And our own experiences are anecdotal, but I am someone who was able to navigate the fucked up system and could still see that it was fucked up, as my job and resources allowed me to find an appointment far easier than others.

Well, of course, the old and poor, isolated from the world for a year or more, have no clue, but most everyone who wants to be vaxxed will be vaxxed by mid summer or so. Then we deal with the unvaxxed for whatever reason. That won't be so hard. Next ski season looks great. Europe is fucking up their roll out, so maybe no Italy, again, until March.

[PowderHorse]

I'm a Kaiser member and I registered early on. Once you become eligible, you have to call a phone number to get your wait-list placement (after you enter all your info every time) and I was like 49,625 last time I checked. Which is insane, and I can't seem to snag any local appointments.

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[old goat]

Vaccination site won't let me book an appointment for my son until he actually turns 16. I want to book an appointment now for next week to get ahead of the rush (he's 16 in 5 days). I have a feeling when I open up the scheduler at 7am on his birthday, we are going to be a few weeks out.

Frustrating, although we are keeping him pretty isolated, so I suppose I shouldn't complain that much. Just seems like making an appointment for when he's 16 shouldn't be a big deal.

I ran into that trying to by a senior ski pass one time--wouldn't let me buy it until I turned 65, even though that was coming up in July.

I wonder if we tracked vaccinations by income, or vaccinations by race, whether it would look remotely fair and equitable. And our own experiences are anecdotal, but I am someone who was able to navigate the fucked up system and could still see that it was fucked up, as my job and resources allowed me to find an appointment far easier than others.

It's well documented that vaccination percentage is considerably higher in richer and whiter zip codes. It takes a considerable amount of manpower and money to reach disadvantaged communities and after 3 months nobody seems to have figured out a good way to do it. In one sense, vaccinating the low hanging fruit first makes sense from a community pandemic control standpoint but it certainly doesn't make sense from an equity standpoint. Feds should have given communities the resources to do both at the same time.

To reach those communities more vaccine and the money to staff up should have been/be given to community clinics, primary care docs, etc--people with existing ties to patients. There will still be a lot of people without any ties to a medical provider to reach. Maybe go door to door, like the census.