Rear shock thoughts

[sethschmautz]

Have been considering running a different rear shock on my Hightower (7.875x2 or 200x51) and I'm starting to do some research. I'm sort of leaning toward a shock with a reservoir.

I am looking for a shock with a firm climbing mode and the ability to quickly/easily switch between open and locked out. A remote would be best but not essential. I like the ability to do my own basic maintenance/rebuilds also. A custom tune would be great but I'd rather have user adjustability.

A couple of shocks that I'm looking at currently are:

1. Manitou Mara Pro
2. Manitou McLeod
3. Fox DPX2
4. DVO topaz
5. Cane Creek DB Air

The last one on the list can be found at good prices but I'm a little concerned about some customer service issues that plagued the DB Inline. I'm also not super keen on sending it in to do a simple air can service.

I could also save a little bit of cash and have my DPS tuned. That would be cheaper and might solve the issues I'm experiencing.

Thoughts on the list above? Any shocks that I'm missing?

Seth

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[SchralphMacchio]

A custom tune can set the compression damping on the climb switch to be where you want.

But it won’t make the switch any more or less accessible ... is that actually a really big deal for you on an efficient linkage like the Hightower? If your low speed and high speed were compression were totally dialed then you wouldn’t need to use the switch nearly as often. I *never* touch the switch on my Bronson 1, and that linkage is way less efficient for climbing than yours.

I also noticed you didn’t complain about consistency of performance in long descents, which is where the reservoir will shine. I have this issue on my long descents ... My local suspension guy told me it wasn’t really worth custom tuning an in-line shock if I was having issues on our long descents - so I bought a reservoir shock.

I was very close to buying a DVO Topaz T3, as I’ve heard great love on VPP bike owners ... but then COVID madness happened and it’s impossible to get a used good condition 200x57 anymore, so I bought a new Monarch RC3 because my local suspension guy is a former RS engineer.

I think Nashbar has new 200x51 RC3s for hella cheap ... and there are some used Topaz 200x51 shocks on Pinkbike ...

I also decided to choose my brand based on who will service my shock locally. No time anymore with the kiddo to do shit like that ...

[Andeh]

DPS is pretty shitty. Don't spend any more money on it.

DPX2 is more consistent, but if you're super particular about getting it to feel "just right" in every situation simultaneously, you're probably not going to love it. I know a big part of it is the bike, but I felt with the DPX2 Performance Elite (same as Factory, just black) on my Sentinel, I was constantly making compromises of small bump vs. support. It was also hyper sensitive to pressures... I could get the same sag with 30 psi difference, and it feeling totally different. And that's with the 65mm stroke (reduced to 57.5 for the frame), which should allow lower pressures. Replacing some of the seals in the air can is doable without special tools, but any damper maintenance will have to be done by a shop.

I also ran a DVO on a Smuggler for a bit. It seemed that it had a lot of flexibility in terms of how to tune the air spring feel between the main chamber, bladder, and positive/negative spacers. The compression switch seemed like it didn't do much, and definitely is not a lockout switch. Apparently you can call DVO and they will tell you how to redo the compression shim stack to make it one though. The rebound felt kinda slow. My shock also "went bad" (just started feeling like shit, very sluggish) after sitting unridden for a few months. A friend has a Topaz on his Ripmo AF, and it lost all pressure in the span of about a month inexplicably. Anyways, my take is that it's a shock with a lot of options for tuning the air spring behavior, it's pretty user serviceable, but needs a lot of TLC to keep performing well.

[mfa81]

I'd go DPX2 or X2, great improvement on long descents compared to dps. My old yeti sb66 came with a dps and the best thing I did was to replace by a monarch rct3 from a nomad at the time!

[toast2266]

I don't think a large volume air can will work great on a hightower.

And like schralph said, if you're not doing sustained rough 2k+ vert descents at speed, the benefits of a reservoir are somewhat lost. Although you potentially gain adjustability, which is good (although a well tuned shock without a ton of adjustability is also good).

Personally, I think the dpx2's work well on the Hightower and I've disliked pretty much every cane creek I've ever ridden. Don't have much time on the manitous or dvo.

[sethschmautz]

Thanks all.

Any input into the need for a custom tune on the DPX2 or is it reasonably adjustable out of the box?

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[toast2266]

Thanks all.

Any input into the need for a custom tune on the DPX2 or is it reasonably adjustable out of the box?

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Dpx2 definitely needs to be tuned for the Hightower.

I'd argue that any shock that isn't at least roughly tuned for your specific bike isn't going to feel great. I think that's part of the reason I never like cane creeks - they supposedly have an adjustment range that covers almost any bike, but in reality that just means they feel like shit on pretty much everything.

[Eluder]

What size shock does the High Tower use... I could look but I'm sure you know... I may have a DPX2 you could get tuned.

[sethschmautz]

What size shock does the High Tower use... I could look but I'm sure you know... I may have a DPX2 you could get tuned.

200x51 or 7.875x2 freedom units. That would be sweet!

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[Eluder]

200x51 or 7.875x2 freedom units. That would be sweet!

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What I have is 210x52.5... thought it would be close, sorry for the false hope.

[SchralphMacchio]

Thanks all.

Any input into the need for a custom tune on the DPX2 or is it reasonably adjustable out of the box?

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You should find someone with an HT, TB2, Bronson 2, or 5010v2 with an OEM DPX2 and ask them to pull the 4 digit code off the can, then you can run that through the Fox website to check the factory tune.
-EDIT- I just realized you can run the code from your DPS, I think tune parameters should apply to the DPX2 as well -

Since (I’ve read that) the DPX2 has a reputation for having pretty stiff mid stroke compression, I’d guess it comes tuned from Fox with light compression damping (CL), light rebound damping (RL) but I have no idea if one or the other is tuned with a digressive leverage curve in mind (DCL / DRL). If you’re looking at a used DPX2 you can get one with the correct (the 4 digit code will actually call out a Hightower/Tallboy/Bronson/5010 model name in the Fox product decoder) or similar tune (different model bike but same factory compression and rebound damping tune) for your bike. The higher end factory DPX2 allows you to adjust LSC, HSC, and I assume the single rebound adjustment is LSR (but not sure) so I assume a different model bike but similar tune should get you in the ballpark you can dial in the final parts yourself.

Or you can get any old 200x51 DPX2 and send it to Fox for re-tuning ...

I was pretty close to going used DPX2 once I realized all the Topaz’s in my size were sold out ... but like I said I have a local guy who used to be a RS factory engineer so I figure he can dial in my shims IFP and valving for my weight bike and riding style ...

[SchralphMacchio]

I just remembered I had a spare shock, take-off DPS from a Bronson 2 I was gonna sell ... I'm curious how this compares to your Hightower DPS tune?

here's what came off the code:
C249
2016, FLOAT DPS, P-S, A, 3pos Evol LV, Santa Cruz, Bronson 2, 7.875, 2.250, 0.4 Spacer, CL, RL, Climb L
https://www.cogentindustries.co.za/d...k-information/

So, large volume EVOL air canister, light compression damping (not digressive), light rebound damping (not digressive), light compression damping on climb mode ... and it sounds like you want medium on that last bit?

I'm still wondering why you are wanting more compression damping on the climb mode - is it because you do a lot of pure road climbs where you want almost no shock compression when climbing?
I'm just wondering if you possibly aren't running enough air pressure and are undersagged, perhaps your shock needs service - have you investigated those options?

I'm perplexed because I've ridden an HT1 and B2, and I'm pretty familiar with how that rear end should feel when it's properly sagged. I can literally climb up concrete stairs with that thing wide open, and I would literally only go into climb mode for a paved asphalt road climb.

Best of luck however your situation pans out ...

[stuckathuntermtn]

I think that's the same size as my old old Kona. What is the shock you have now? Never know. If the tune works and I can find hardware, it might help make my old bike less shitty.

[toast2266]

I'm still wondering why you are wanting more compression damping on the climb mode - is it because you do a lot of pure road climbs where you want almost no shock compression when climbing?
I'm just wondering if you possibly aren't running enough air pressure and are undersagged, perhaps your shock needs service - have you investigated those options?

I'm perplexed because I've ridden an HT1 and B2, and I'm pretty familiar with how that rear end should feel when it's properly sagged. I can literally climb up concrete stairs with that thing wide open, and I would literally only go into climb mode for a paved asphalt road climb.

Best of luck however your situation pans out ...

Agreed with this. First gen Hightower is high on my list of bikes that don't need a climb switch at all. They pedal really well when set up anywhere within 5% of recommended sag. My shock stayed fully open for pretty much the entire time I owned that bike.

Getting the suspension to move over smaller bumps was more of a challenge. But that's mostly less compression damping, not more.

[sethschmautz]

I keep starting this and then run out of time to complete, so here goes.

What's been said actually makes some sense when looking at the tune of my current shock, which is similar to the Bronson that was posted about with the exception of the XL compression.

When I bought the frame I wasn't crazy about the small bump sensitivity with the stock monarch shock. Instead of rebuilding that shock when the time came I bought a recently rebuilt shock from a 5010:

2016, FLOAT DPS, P-S, A, 3pos Evol LV, Santa Cruz, 5010 2, 7.875, 2.000, 0.8 Spacer, CXL, RL, Climb L, Standard Logo

I also put a needle bearing on the rear shock at the same time. My experience is that the small bump is really great - actually a little too great to be honest. If I set sag where I'm supposed to the rear shock feels too soft. I'm thinking that this is the XL compression tune. If I dial up the pressure to compensate I start to get bucked and can't dial the rebound setting high enough to compensate.

I have just under 500 miles on this shock this year (about 250 on the monarch). In climb mode the shock feels pretty good on the accents - not great (to me), but pretty good. When I move it over into Trail mode for the descents it also feels pretty good. It doesn't feel good wide open.

At the end of the day I think the problem I have now might be due to over compensating for my distaste of the monarch. It would be interesting to see what the light compression setting feels like from the Bronson in comparison to the XL on this shock.

As for the reservoir - there are good points here and I'm not wanting to carry an extra 1/2 pound if I don't need it. My riding is getting better and I'm riding faster, bigger days and harder trails. I think this will be a need soon even if not immediately.

I appreciate the input. At this point I'm still torn between a custom tune (maybe L or M compression and M rebound) on my current shock or picking up something a little more capable. I want to maintain the chargy feel of the bike and I don't think the current tune is helping me get that from this bike.

Seth

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[SchralphMacchio]

Ah okay now this makes sense, you are possibly running the wrong shock tune plus needle bearing kit has made your bike way have way less friction requiring more shock damping.

I definitely dialed up my rebound damping and shock air pressure after I put my needle bearing in, and yeah I could use a touch more compression (I just replaced my L/L monarch RT3 with an M/M RC3 but haven’t ridden it yet). And wow, I’ve never even heard of an extra light compression damping tune!

So if you are off the reservoir shock bandwagon for now, you can custom tune or replace.

With custom tuning, yeah you can basically up the compression damping, rebound damping, and climb switch damping. There is still the issue that once you get it back, your shock has no way to field adjust HSC without re-shimming, so there is a small chance you’d have to send it back again or replace if you aren’t 100% pleased with the results ...

With replacement, that’s also tricky because most inline shocks don’t have independent HSC/LSC adjustments. Came Creek DBAir IL does, but then you’d have to get the thing custom built or custom reamed to be compatible with your needle bearing kit (they don’t use the eyelet size standard that everyone else does). The Manitou McLeod has a 4 position compression dial that can also be controlled via remote, but I suspect once the compression is dialed for your bike you won’t be reaching for the climb switch very often.

I’d probably wait until the kids are in bed, peruse and get frustrated by the Hightower shock threads on pinkbike and MTBR, then make a decision ... which would probably be to custom tune it.

[radam]

When you upped the pressure on the DPS and felt like you were getting bucked, was it all the time or more when moving at a good pace and when you'd theoretically be in the midstroke or deeper in the travel? If it was just the latter, you could try removing that 0.8 spacer (or changing to a smaller one) so the shock doesn't ramp up as much and it would allow you to run a higher pressure to deal with the initial softness without causing issues deeper in the stroke. Try that for a ride or two and then go from there?



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[El Chupacabra]

Pro's Closet has some Fox on sale - didn't check for your sizing needs, but prices look decent:

https://www.theproscloset.com/collec...ogIk5jaEc4cSJ9

[SchralphMacchio]

Pro's Closet has some Fox on sale - didn't check for your sizing needs, but prices look decent:

https://www.theproscloset.com/collec...ogIk5jaEc4cSJ9

They don’t have anything in his size.

Also, those stock tunes are supposed to be medium compression medium rebound and I think but am not sure firm climb switch ... could work, might be too stiff ...

[sethschmautz]

So... If I find a 7.875 x 2.25 (mine should take a 2.0), is there any way to shorten the travel? I have found some "travel spacers" but can't tell if they would work in a dpx2, for instance.

I'm assuming that the extra .25" of travel may cause the rear tire to hit the seat tube?

Seth

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[stuckathuntermtn]

How does one know what kind of shock tune they need if not listed on current shitty shock?

[toast2266]

So... If I find a 7.875 x 2.25 (mine should take a 2.0), is there any way to shorten the travel? I have found some "travel spacers" but can't tell if they would work in a dpx2, for instance.

I'm assuming that the extra .25" of travel may cause the rear tire to hit the seat tube?

Seth

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Fox can shorten the stroke. Doing it at home requires a full damper rebuild (and all of the special tools to do that). It will almost certainly be cheaper to just buy the correct shock to begin with (even if that means buying a brand new shock).

[toast2266]

How does one know what kind of shock tune they need if not listed on current shitty shock?

You email the frame manufacturer and / or the shock manufacturer.

[SchralphMacchio]

Or look on the bike manufacturer’s website under archived products for shock size and hardware spec. But only good manufacturers put detailed archive info on their website. I’ve always been impressed by SC in that regard.

[One (+) Sentence]

So... If I find a 7.875 x 2.25 (mine should take a 2.0), is there any way to shorten the travel? I have found some "travel spacers" but can't tell if they would work in a dpx2, for instance.

I'm assuming that the extra .25" of travel may cause the rear tire to hit the seat tube?

Seth

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Running a 2.25” stroke on a V1 Hightower was a very popular mod for that bike. You would need to run the flip chip in the “high” mode, but it brings rear wheel travel up to just under 150mm, essentially turning the V1 Hightower into the short-lived Hightower LT.