Cush Core, have it? want it? used it?

[toast2266]

Question for the experts/wrenches: are some rims harder to install inserts on than other rims?

I have Bontrager Line Pro 30s, and they are extremely difficult to get on Tannus tubeless inserts. I couldn't do it. I could get on Vittoria Air Liners, but it was a wrestle, and I warped the tire bead in the process. The Tannus is supposed to be pretty easy.

Seeing J-Dad's comments made me wonder if my rims are what makes the install so hard. I've read somewhere that the LP 30s have a shallow well. Or maybe the stock rim "tape" is thick? Dunno.

ETA: Outdoor Gear Lab said this about the LP30s:



https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/revie...0-tlr-boost-29

Yeah, some rims are definitely tighter. Like you said, some rim's center channel isn't as deep. Some rims also have slightly taller sidewalls.

There's also most definitely variability between different tire brands. Some tires are tighter than other. And some tire factories don't have great quality control, so there'll actually be differences between different runs of the same tire.

[simple]

Bontrager has always seemed to have a different ERD than everyone else. The good thing about them is they hold the tire and air really well. The downside is how hard it is to swap tires.

[ridinshockgun]

I almost pull the trigger on inserts about once a month and then realize that it is adding like 1/2 lb of rotating mass to each wheel. I feel like there is this infinite feedback loop of making bikes more expensive to make them lighter then inventing parts to add on to make them heavier then having to spend more $ to get a bike under 30lbs.

Maybe I should move this to the something to rant about thread?

[grinch]

Nice! Yeah, definitely try it out. Tannus was the first insert I've ever used, and I felt like it improved ride quality. From all accounts, Cushcore has more sidewall support and dampening than the Tannues, so wanted to give it a shot. I dont mind the added weight because they will only be used on my bike park wheelset, and the added weight might even make it more stable.

Also think dropping the bead into the channel will help on the Tannus install as well. Didnt know about that technique when i originally installed the Tannus, and struggled getting the last bit of tire into the wheel.

Good to know. I hope im ok with the weight because if its better than the tannus for both support and dampness it could be the addition to the tire im looking for. Im mounting a tire i had mounted previously so im hoping that helps

Question for the experts/wrenches: are some rims harder to install inserts on than other rims?

I have Bontrager Line Pro 30s, and they are extremely difficult to get on Tannus tubeless inserts. I couldn't do it. I could get on Vittoria Air Liners, but it was a wrestle, and I warped the tire bead in the process. The Tannus is supposed to be pretty easy.

Seeing J-Dad's comments made me wonder if my rims are what makes the install so hard. I've read somewhere that the LP 30s have a shallow well. Or maybe the stock rim "tape" is thick? Dunno.

ETA: Outdoor Gear Lab said this about the LP30s:



https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/revie...0-tlr-boost-29

Rims do vary but i think its the quality control on tire beads for the most part. Tolerances definitely vary. I just got through a hell of a time mounting a 2.6 schwalbe big betty onto a 29r rim that previously ive had a few tires mounted tubeless with no problem. Also mounted some 2.4 big betty's on to the same rim in a 27.5 with no problems at all. Ive had some tight beads that took some weangling and an extra hand with good grip strength but that new 2.6 bb was crazy tight. Cant believe it went on.

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[jdadour]

Question for the experts/wrenches: are some rims harder to install inserts on than other rims?

I have Bontrager Line Pro 30s, and they are extremely difficult to get on Tannus tubeless inserts. I couldn't do it. I could get on Vittoria Air Liners, but it was a wrestle, and I warped the tire bead in the process. The Tannus is supposed to be pretty easy.

Seeing J-Dad's comments made me wonder if my rims are what makes the install so hard. I've read somewhere that the LP 30s have a shallow well. Or maybe the stock rim "tape" is thick? Dunno.

ETA: Outdoor Gear Lab said this about the LP30s:



https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/revie...0-tlr-boost-29

I found the Tannus VERY difficult to install as well. I think they could also benefit from "dropping the bead" technique that cushcore recommends, basically getting as much of the bead as deep as possible in the center channel of the rim. I was blown away how easy it was to install the Cushcore when I tried this method.

My Maxxis Assegai got a wobble in it, and I think it was from the excessive stretch of getting them on the wheel with Tannus.

[MegaStoke]

IME, the key to an easy Tannus install is to bead up the tire without the insert in place, then break one bead, then reinstall the insert with one bead already seated. As always with any tire install, dropping the bead into the center makes things go smoother.

[VTskibum]

Good timing on that video. I’m familiar w dropping bead for tough tubeless (especially road) ties, but hoping that will expedite the install. Pretty sure Cush core going to be coming next for another bike.


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[Whiteroom_Guardian]

I have run Cush Pro front and rear in the past for racing. Been running Cush Pro rear only so far this year, but gonna try Cush XC up front as I am riding Silver this weekend to practice for the race the next weekend.

95% of the time it seems stupid and like it just adds weight, but 5% of the time it saves your wheel and possibly a stage/entire race run.

[grinch]

Im capable of that 5% 90% of my days id guess but my guesses are 50/50

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[ASmileyFace]

Been running XC in my rear this season with a new wheel build because I'm a gorilla on crack who hits nearly every rock I can find. So far it has been worth every bit of weight penalty. No more rim strikes, no more pinch flats, no more bent rims, and running lower pressure is niiiiice. I <3 cushcore.

[XXX-er]

I'm not using inserts cuz i don't really need them where I ride but I helped the mechanic at an LBS mount cushcore
it took 2 guys and a garbage can, it was not easy, i think i read that Tannus might be easier ?

I read something about inserts for tubeless road tires in road racing allows slight run-flat capabilities

[grinch]

I havent mounted the cush core yet but i think tannus tubeless is the best deal. 80cad definitely has the potential to pay its way when its less than half the price of a new rim, not to mention spokes , build and the retapping cross your fingers tubeless setup. Its less than a lot of tires plus the added cornering support and suspension. I cant see cush core being 50% better but im keen to try it

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[J. Barron DeJong]

I read something about inserts for tubeless road tires in road racing allows slight run-flat capabilities

Yes, and the road ones are using a different foam too - closed cell instead of open cell. When you pump up the tire, the foam collapses so it’s not providing any stability to the tire, but more importantly it also isn’t increasing rolling resistance since it’s not in contact with the tire. Also, the closed cell foam doesn’t absorb sealant, so you can get away with less and save some weight.

In the case of a puncture, the loss of pressure allows the foam to expand and you now get the support from the insert to be able to keep riding.

[Falcon3]

Cush XC on my carbon hoop rear with Exo tires, I love it. Probably will leave it in there when I switch from my trail tires to XC setup later in the summer.

[grinch]

I see a fair number of wc xc racers using some sort of insert , atleast in the rear. I think dropper posts and/or a bit more agressive tires and courses has changed things up for the traditional retro grouches
Edit: not directed at u falcon, just reminded me of current xc racer builds

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[VTskibum]

Yes, and the road ones are using a different foam too - closed cell instead of open cell. When you pump up the tire, the foam collapses so it’s not providing any stability to the tire, but more importantly it also isn’t increasing rolling resistance since it’s not in contact with the tire. Also, the closed cell foam doesn’t absorb sealant, so you can get away with less and save some weight.

In the case of a puncture, the loss of pressure allows the foam to expand and you now get the support from the insert to be able to keep riding.

From GCN coverage of it, beginning he's riding 0 air pressure just on insert and it shows how it shrinks when aired up around 2:50. Actually looks pretty interesting, especially for serious gravel racing. I'm nowhere near that for now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66KPtappr-c&t=808s

[jdadour]

Got out on the Cushcore Pro for the first time at the Mammoth Bike Park this weekend. Transition Sentinel 170 DVO Onyx Fork, 160 DVO Jade X shock. Im running Front Assegai 2.5 Exo+ and Rear DHRII 2.4 Exo+. Install was not hard, follow the instructions step by step and you'll be fine. I weigh about 170lbs, and want to run inserts mainly for the improved ride quality and handling, and just have the rim protection as a bonus.

Previously I had the Tannus Tubeless (my first insert experience) which I liked in terms of feel and ride quality, but they were a bitch to install and the insert would move around inside the tire and block the valve which made adjusting psi a pain in the ass. The install would probably be easier now by using the Cushcore install technique, and if ever ran those again I think the Cushcore valves would solve the valve blockage problem. That valve design seems like a must for using inserts IMO.

Right away the Cushcore Pro felt damp and definitely calmed down the tire through rough stuff. With no inserts is was running 23/26psi at the bike park, and kept psi same with the Tannus. Per Cushcore's claim about running lower psi, I went down to 20/23psi, and felt the tires were rolling over more and were unstable in turns. I was sometimes washing out and not able to steer as confidently as I used. So bumped it back up 23/26 psi and it felt normal again. If experimenting with lower pressures, beware of that potential negative effect.

More importantly, right now I'm not really liking the extra weight of these. At about 270 grams each, they are only 110 grams each heavier than the Tannus (which are around 160 grams each), but to me the added weight was noticeable and not in the best way. Felt like the bike took more work to maneuver in turns, and steering was slower. Sure they make the bike feel more stable downhill, but it also made it feel too much like a tank and cumbersome. If I was doing Pro Lines, which I am not, maybe these are the way to go, but right now they feel like overkill. Seems like you can get rim protection and dampening benefits with a lighter insert.

Might go back to the Tannus, but first going to give the Rimpact Original a shot to cut even more weight. 90 grams each, and should still provide some dampening and turn stability. Also have seen other people running the Cushcore XC which are about 150 grams.

[grinch]

Got out on the Cushcore Pro for the first time at the Mammoth Bike Park this weekend. Transition Sentinel 170 DVO Onyx Fork, 160 DVO Jade X shock. Im running Front Assegai 2.5 Exo+ and Rear DHRII 2.4 Exo+. Install was not hard, follow the instructions step by step and you'll be fine. I weigh about 170lbs, and want to run inserts mainly for the improved ride quality and handling, and just have the rim protection as a bonus.

Previously I had the Tannus Tubeless (my first insert experience) which I liked in terms of feel and ride quality, but they were a bitch to install and the insert would move around inside the tire and block the valve which made adjusting psi a pain in the ass. The install would probably be easier now by using the Cushcore install technique, and if ever ran those again I think the Cushcore valves would solve the valve blockage problem. That valve design seems like a must for using inserts IMO.

Right away the Cushcore Pro felt damp and definitely calmed down the tire through rough stuff. With no inserts is was running 23/26psi at the bike park, and kept psi same with the Tannus. Per Cushcore's claim about running lower psi, I went down to 20/23psi, and felt the tires were rolling over more and were unstable in turns. I was sometimes washing out and not able to steer as confidently as I used. So bumped it back up 23/26 psi and it felt normal again. If experimenting with lower pressures, beware of that potential negative effect.

More importantly, right now I'm not really liking the extra weight of these. At about 270 grams each, they are only 110 grams each heavier than the Tannus (which are around 160 grams each), but to me the added weight was noticeable and not in the best way. Felt like the bike took more work to maneuver in turns, and steering was slower. Sure they make the bike feel more stable downhill, but it also made it feel too much like a tank and cumbersome. If I was doing Pro Lines, which I am not, maybe these are the way to go, but right now they feel like overkill. Seems like you can get rim protection and dampening benefits with a lighter insert.

Might go back to the Tannus, but first going to give the Rimpact Original a shot to cut even more weight. 90 grams each, and should still provide some dampening and turn stability. Also have seen other people running the Cushcore XC which are about 150 grams.

Nice bike. Just sending my reg jade in for a rebuild and hope blowing seals isnt a regular thing with it. Dvo diamond fork was good to me so always considering an onyx.
Im now having that blockage problem with the tannus. I hadnt previously but this is the first one ive mounted with using the tannus valve/stem. I guess ill swap the valve first. Mounting them has been ok apart from one but that was a crazy tight bead on a tire. Still a bit of a struggle like mosts inserts. Vittoria air liner and tannus tubeless both work fairly well it seems. I have a cc ready to mount but scared to get involved in that struggle and weight. My schwalbe super gravity and super dh have that considerable added weight tank effect. They have to be one of the heaviest tires now. I got used to the weight on downhills after a few days anf that sidewall is confidense inspiring. I havent pedaled them away from the park though. I think ill stick with dh casing tires and a lighter insert, vittoria or T tubeless, if the valve change works. I like 30psi in my tires for the park jump trails and 27/24 for steeper looser dh trails so i want to be able to lower/raise the psi if need be

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[east or bust]

Fuck. First day of the season that I can say was pushing it hard on the downhill and flatted twice (1 rear, and a double!). My plan was to run the stock tube setup until I couldn't that day was today.

Both instances were pinch flats hauling ass through rocks, so CC is the obvious answer to me out of the several options available. Going to suck pedaling them around on regular trails though.. But alas, compromises. Maybe next year I'll have the moolah for a second wheel set.

[grinch]

What tire casing? Tubes?

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[jdadour]

Nice bike. Just sending my reg jade in for a rebuild and hope blowing seals isnt a regular thing with it. Dvo diamond fork was good to me so always considering an onyx.
Im now having that blockage problem with the tannus. I hadnt previously but this is the first one ive mounted with using the tannus valve/stem. I guess ill swap the valve first. Mounting them has been ok apart from one but that was a crazy tight bead on a tire. Still a bit of a struggle like mosts inserts. Vittoria air liner and tannus tubeless both work fairly well it seems. I have a cc ready to mount but scared to get involved in that struggle and weight. My schwalbe super gravity and super dh have that considerable added weight tank effect. They have to be one of the heaviest tires now. I got used to the weight on downhills after a few days anf that sidewall is confidense inspiring. I havent pedaled them away from the park though. I think ill stick with dh casing tires and a lighter insert, vittoria or T tubeless, if the valve change works. I like 30psi in my tires for the park jump trails and 27/24 for steeper looser dh trails so i want to be able to lower/raise the psi if need be

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Thanks. Yeah have been really happy with DVO. Also being in Socal they are local, so really easy to get stuff fixed and rebuilt. Definitely try the side vent valves from cushcore, or Rimpact has some other options too. Dont be scared off by the cushcore install, its not bad. But with your heavy tires the weight may be overkill. A lot of the inserts might be best suited for midweight casings like Exo+ to keep the overall weight down.

[grabtindy]

[sold]

[east or bust]

What tire casing? Tubes?

Was still running the stock setup on a Spec Enduro, so 60tpi trail casing tire (maybe similar to a Maxxis Exo?) and whatever shitty tubes were in there.

I’d like to not overthink this and go with a setup that’ll address the deficiencies noticed so far. Which was mainly bottom out protection. I didn’t have any qualms with tire support in the corners, was running a psi up around 28-30 front and rear.

Current plan is CC with stock tires.

[east or bust]

Anyone interested in a set of Cush Core Pro, 29"? No longer using them, still in good shape. $75 for 2 with valves seem fair?

PM incoming

[garuda]

IME, Tannus has a much better ride quality than Rimpact. Rimpact is like a stiff brick in your tires. The few grams you may save are not worth it for the reduction in ride quality. Cushcore pro is reliable and nice to know you can finish a stage with a flat, but the weight penalty over Tannus is noticeable.