The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[detrusor]

No confidence after many prereleases. Sold and went Cast for out the gates and travel. Real touring gear for walking


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[TahoeJ]

As much as I wanted to love them, I freaking hate my Shifts - and purely from a pre-release perspective. Pre-releases on 4 different days (the first day with multiple incidents until I dialed them in). And yes I've done all the adjustments, memorized LeeLau's adjustment bible, massaged them, whispered sweet-nothings into their ears, and tried them with several boots. My last pre-release was in exposed terrain and led me to tumble through rocks. (Light Towers at Squaw; tumbling through rocks on that run killed CR Johnson.) Needless to say, I won't be using them again..

Holy shit, that's a scary place to lose a ski unexpectedly. I'd never use them again after that, either.

[kootenayskier]

As much as I wanted to love them, I freaking hate my Shifts - and purely from a pre-release perspective. Pre-releases on 4 different days (the first day with multiple incidents until I dialed them in). And yes I've done all the adjustments, memorized LeeLau's adjustment bible, massaged them, whispered sweet-nothings into their ears, and tried them with several boots. My last pre-release was in exposed terrain and led me to tumble through rocks. (Light Towers at Squaw; tumbling through rocks on that run killed CR Johnson.) Needless to say, I won't be using them again.

Should I try and warranty the Shifts for a faulty AFD? It always seems to be the AFD drop in my experience, but I cannot see any visual evidence of a problem with the AFD system. I've been following this thread loosely from the beginning, but no way I can remember 119 pages of posts.

Does anyone know why they chose to use a stepped screw for the AFD adjustment? Was that supposed to be better than a regular worm screw?

Guess I'll be going back to my pre-Shift-MO so nicely stated by thefortrees - alpine binders for resort, touring binders for walks.

My conclusion also. That POS AFD is downright hazardous for aggressive skiing in Alpine DIN soles, and and they’re heavier, more awkward and significantly less reliable than my regularly pin touring bindings. Probably just fine for someone that skis inbounds in touring boots, occasionally does short tours, and only has one setup. An interesting experiment, but I feel like Cody owes me a 6 pack for my troubles, and I’ll be flipping mine in the Fall.

[Jongle]

I had the exact same experience as detrusor, meter-man and kootenayskier. Wanted to love the Shifts but just couldn't solve the pre-release issues, even after making sure they were adjusted correctly. I sold mine after one binding randomly ejected on a traverse over exposure. Fortunately the Shifts have always had good resale value because of how many people are "thinking about getting into touring."

For me, the level of finickiness with this binding completely defeats its purpose, which is to be a touring binding that you can ski with as much confidence as an alpine binding. Glad it seems to be working out for most people, but I feel 100x more confident skiing my Zeds hard in the backcountry than I ever did with Shifts.

[jdadour]

For those that continue to have pre-release issues, have you noticed after the fact that the AFD moved down? or was it still in the correct position after the pre-release?

If it hasnt moved, then presumably the issue could be narrowed down to the forward pressure settings. I have mine set "correctly" and havent had any pre-release issues yet.

[DEVO]

I bought my shifts just before Xmas. Have switched out the toes for the newer toes with the bumps on the DIN windows. Mounted to a 180cm bonafide. and skiing in a last years Technica Cochise 120 (the black/yellow ones) that basically have an alpine sole.

I mounted the bindings myself, adjusted the forward pressure and the AFD myself (making sure the toe of the boot was all the way up against the toe binding, and adjusted the forward pressure and AFD per the instructions from Leelau's article (thanks for that, by the way). I'm on the east coast, and have used the set up for a couple of resort days (these are not my daily), and five short tours (three on Mt. Washington, nothing serious).

I have had no issues with the walk mode lever, and so far, no pre-release issues at all. I've skied varied terrain at the resort (fast groomers, bumps, etc), and various bumpy tree skiing, etc. I really like them so far, and hope that stays the case. Planning on looking for a lighter ski to put the same bindings on for next season. I check the AFD height after each day skiing, and so far they have stayed in place.

[altacoup]

Shredded mine at the resort yesterday testing out some modifications to my boots, usually only ski them beyond the ropes. Mix of pow in newly opened terrain followed by horrendous sun affected firm snow in the afternoon. Total confidence on 20 ft drop to mandatory stomp and ripping through firm bumps. Maybe helps that I’m in salomon mtn lab boot? I was absolutely anal on setting mine up correctly when I got them last year. Setup is super finicky, we’re talking 2-3 mm can screw you. One pair of sth2 I have have had adjustment issue over their lifespan. I’ve had one issue with brakes after transitioning too fast and not correctly clearing snow. Other than that. 100%. I wouldn’t use them as my everyday binding, it’s obvious they aren’t built to take the abuse of a pivot. They ski infinitely better than a pin binding when charging. Still ski pins for corn and bigger missions. But if I’m going up mt superior or lapping wolverine and want to charge, these are a game changer for me. Salomon is killing their own product by not giving techs the proper tools to learn how to set this binding up. Couldn’t t pay me to ski them if mounted and set up by a typical ski shop.


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[Trefin]

For those that continue to have pre-release issues, have you noticed after the fact that the AFD moved down? or was it still in the correct position after the pre-release?

If it hasnt moved, then presumably the issue could be narrowed down to the forward pressure settings. I have mine set "correctly" and havent had any pre-release issues yet.

Before i sold mine, mine would be fine but one afd would randomly step down when skiing hard. I had perfect forward pressure and tightened the AFD according to townsend and leelaw. Didn't matter, as it led me to popping out within like 5 seconds of feeling it if i couldnt slow down in time. Only one AFD had the issue so im guessing it was a stripped mechanism. I stopped skiing those skis because i was scared of them as they were a ticking timebomb. Most people i know have had zero issues but from stories here and on NS, plus the few shop guys ive talked to, i dont think its just user error, their production process or design def isnt perfect and there are alot of lemons out there. im 6'2 and 220 so im sure that is probably what triggered me fucking up the mechanism but idk, still a shitty design for the toe riser IMO.

I sold them and got a cast system and have zero regrets. Im not doing FWT level skiing to necessitate casts but the reliability and zero finnicky BS is well worth it, also its faster to transition and much easier to step in for a similar or cheaper price if you have pivots. Its also a plus to avoid rehab or surgery due to an unexpected prelease, that saves a few hundred.

[californiagrown]

For those that continue to have pre-release issues, have you noticed after the fact that the AFD moved down? or was it still in the correct position after the pre-release?

If it hasnt moved, then presumably the issue could be narrowed down to the forward pressure settings. I have mine set "correctly" and havent had any pre-release issues yet.

AFD is properly set up and still barely touching boot in my garage (after making sure the boot toe is levered up). Ive tried leelaus forward pressure, factory and overtightened. this last time out i overtightened the AFD and forward pressure because it was a pow day and i was sick of prereleases... i came out twice while balanced skiing (though one of them was maybe forgiveable as im tall and levered out the front of both bindings popping around in pow on teh side of a green run). Kinda at a loss and bummed because the setup with the shifts are super light and fun and playful compared to my other ski setups. Feels like anytime im at all out of perfect balance i WILL come out, and sometimes ill be in perfect balance and have a ski just slide right off.

[Westcoaster]

Variability in shift reliability is sort of fascinating. I've got two pair, both 18/19 and 19/20 models on bc100 and r11, no issues at 6'1" 190. Hawx xtd and Mach1 shells. Afd is awfully precarious feeling when on alpine soles, though.

Tbh, dunno why I got em, I ski resort and I ski bc but Ive got skis and proper bindings for both? Maybe fomo or "for traveling", but Ive struggled to find a use case for them where I don't feel like it's a weight or reliability compromise. They are mind bogglingly popular on tahoe skintracks though, so I'm sure solly is happy.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Totally agree it's kind of fascinating. The way I look at it the toe lock coming down is a legit warranty issue. Seems like brakes coming down while touring can sometimes be a warranty issue, but most of the time it's just user error.

Prereleases though. Who knows what's going on. I have a pair from the first year. They're absolutely bomber, no prerelease issues at all in countless ski days and hucks. They're on my 108 waist, do-everything ski, that takes an absolute pounding. Used them with S-Lab boots and now Hawx XTD. Zero issues.

My buddy has two pairs - I mounted the first and they've been perfect. Shop mounted his second set (as I posted about a few pages back) and they screwed it up so he had multiple prereleases his first day. I fixed the AFD/forward pressure and they've been perfect since.

I just can't figure out what the constant is with the prelease issues. Is it just purely being setup wrong (I used to this it was)? Or does the shift hate certain boots? So strange.

[Jtlange]

I just can't figure out what the constant is with the prelease issues. Is it just purely being setup wrong (I used to this it was)? Or does the shift hate certain boots? So strange.

I personally think its three things in order of incidence rate:

1) Adjustment error
2) People needing something to complain/feel special about
3. Some boots are probably just on the edge of a step in the AFD which causes it to step down on hard hits making the adjustment wrong.

Ive had problems with these bindings myself and once I set them up right, the issues went away. If you can trust it again after then you're good, if not then then come on TGR and bitch.

[Yanos]

FYI I broke the adjustment screw on the AFD (bit of a story). My local shop was able to order order (2) for $30 each. The new ones did seem to adjust better, but I am not sure if that is due to one being used and one being new....

[GoldenBC]

I don't think all the prerelease issues are a set up error. Sure, some people skiing down blue runs are prereleasing inappropriately, but the fact is that this isn't a super elastic heel. If you ski hard and have a forward lurch or put very violent forces through the binding, it releases when you don't want it too. That doesn't mean it's bad. You just have to accept that it is not a CAST.

Perfect example of the common prerelease:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CMBM3S2Jznm/

[powdrhound]

That gave me a Spademan flashback.

[aanev]

but the fact is that this isn't a super elastic heel.

+1

Additionally, As fas as I remember the thickness of the heel may very 4mm and still be within spec. In a binding with 10mm elastic travel 4mm is a lot of variance.

P.S. Happy shift owner here, but recently I was thinking about Frankenshift - Shift toe + SHT2 heel .

[Spyderjon]

I don't think all the prerelease issues are a set up error. Sure, some people skiing down blue runs are prereleasing inappropriately, but the fact is that this isn't a super elastic heel. If you ski hard and have a forward lurch or put very violent forces through the binding, it releases when you don't want it too. That doesn't mean it's bad. You just have to accept that it is not a CAST.

Perfect example of the common prerelease:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CMBM3S2Jznm/

Looks to me like that dude was almost sitting on his tails and his right ski caught an inside edge. I'd be happy that the ski came off in that situation.

....... As fas as I remember the thickness of the heel may very 4mm and still be within spec. In a binding with 10mm elastic travel 4mm is a lot of variance........

Alpine/ISO 5355 heel thickness is 30mm +/- 1mm. Touring/ISO 9523 is 32mm +/- 2mm.

The Shift heel has 15mm of vertical elasticity in the heel (the same as all other Salomon heels) but Salomon don't say if that's with an alpine heel spec or a touring heel spec.

[aanev]

Alpine/ISO 5355 heel thickness is 30mm +/- 1mm. Touring/ISO 9523 is 32mm +/- 2mm.

My Hawx XTD measures 30mm and it seems that substantial part of the happy users are with Salomon/Atomic boots.

The Shift heel has 15mm of vertical elasticity in the heel (the same as all other Salomon heels) but Salomon don't say if that's with an alpine heel spec or a touring heel spec.

I could not find any source claiming 15mm of heel elasticity.

According to blister:
- Elastic Travel, Heel: 9 mm
http://https://blisterreview.com/gea...ft-mnc-binding

According to wildsnow:
- A bit more than 10 millimeters
http://https://www.wildsnow.com/2051...ticity-travel/

According to LeeLau
- heel has 11mm of elastic travel
https://www.tetongravity.com/story/ski/aggressive-touring-bindings-fritschi-tecton-vs-salomon-atomic-shift

[Kevo]

I took my bindings back to the local salomon dealer to double check that they were set up correctly after my pre-release. The shop had a different tech confirm that everything was ok.

Today was day two skiing on the new toe pieces (entirely new toes, not just a new DIN window).

I stepped out of the binding after three laps and noticed that one of the MNC plates was stuck to the side and not going back to the neutral position. Upon inspection, there is a broken spring sticking out.

From the two bindings I've interacted with and countless posts on social media, it seems a very high number of 2020/2021 shifts have manufacturing defects.

Attachment 365269

Salomon got back to me and is sending me new AFDs because of the above issues. They asked that I go to a different shop to install the AFDs and adjust them, so I'm guessing that they think that the bindings were set up incorrectly.

Do the entire toe pieces need to be pulled off to reinstall the AFDs?

If that is the case, is it safe to use the same holes to remount the toepieces for the third time?

[XXX-er]

after 3 remounts in the same hole I would remount with a good slow set epoxy

use FG strands & epoxy if the screws spin

[Spyderjon]

.........I could not find any source claiming 15mm of heel elasticity.

According to blister:
- Elastic Travel, Heel: 9 mm
http://https://blisterreview.com/gea...ft-mnc-binding

According to wildsnow:
- A bit more than 10 millimeters
http://https://www.wildsnow.com/2051...ticity-travel/

According to LeeLau
- heel has 11mm of elastic travel
https://www.tetongravity.com/story/ski/aggressive-touring-bindings-fritschi-tecton-vs-salomon-atomic-shift

Just quoting what Salomon say which is 15mm for all their heels. It's a question they include on their binding tech certification test every season. I never actually measured it but when I get a minute I'll measure it on my torque tester.

[Spyderjon]

...........Do the entire toe pieces need to be pulled off to reinstall the AFDs?

If that is the case, is it safe to use the same holes to remount the toepieces for the third time?

Yes, you need to remove the toe binding but there's no need to remove the front stud. Unless they've been overtorqued on the initial mount & as long as the shop rat uses a hand 'driver and not a battery drill you'll be good.

[californiagrown]

Sure, some people skiing down blue runs are prereleasing inappropriately, but the fact is that this isn't a super elastic heel. If you ski hard and have a forward lurch or put very violent forces through the binding, it releases when you don't want it too.

This is honestly what i am leaning towards. Coming from a frame touring binding ive been VERY happy with the weight and ergonomics of the shift when touring, but i was hoping for the security of a standard alpine binding. They are honestly fine, as long as i adjust my skiing to fit the binding... something which you might do with tech bindings, but defeats the point of the shifts IMO. My problem is that i dont tour enough to justify a tech binding... it would unnecesarily remove a pair of skis from the resort quiver. But damn, idk if i can go back to a frame binding now that i have seen a glimmer of the light with the pin toes. And i dont like CAST because im an orangutan and have issues getting into the fucking pivoty fucking heelpiece. Im a 16 DIN STH and Tyrolia kinda guy.

[GoldenBC]

Looks to me like that dude was almost sitting on his tails and his right ski caught an inside edge. I'd be happy that the ski came off

I don’t know if you freeride much but sitting back on your heels and pointing it straight through pow should not release any binding set up for doing what he’s doing. Yes, maybe with a din of 7, but not 11/12. Catching an inside edge? I didn’t see it, he was going straight. The fact is, the binding isn’t eleastic enough to be ridden like this. In fact, many people complain about all Salomon’s releasing too easy like this, unless their din is cranked.

Californiagrown, if you’re not touring much, you should not be on the shift if you’re skiing hard. This is exactly what CAST is for.

[GoldenBC]

Here is another shot of the heel releasing when you don’t want it too. It’s a great binding, but it’s not a replacement for an alpine binding for hard skiers.

http://https://www.instagram.com/p/C...d=pyuihn46ghf1