"All weather" tires in place of winter tires

[bodywhomper]

In summit’s situation, price would mostly drive my decision, including cost of the wheels. Second is sidewall height (prefer not to have low profile sidewalls).

[SchralphMacchio]

Thread bump as I had to deal with the reality of my kids and their gear getting bigger and traded my beloved A4 in for a Lezbaru Outback XT. In the Audi I've always used 2 sets of wheels with Performance Winter tires , both for the better winter compound and to get a smaller wheel with a beefier sidewall than the stock 40 series low profile tires on the lowered sport suspension.

I went performance winter (Vred Wintrac Pro, Michelin Pilot Alpin) vs full snow like X-Ice because while we drove through some heinous conditions stormchasing up to VT, our daily driving is in Philly with very little snow, and even going up to the mountains most of the driving is hundreds of miles on dry or wet highway before the last 1/3rd or so. I'm not averse to changing wheels and tires seasonally as that's what I've done before, but with the significantly lower performance needs of the Outback vs the Audi and already having 60 series sidewalls stock, does this use case argue for an All Weather tire instead like the Cross Climate 2 or similar? I've seen reviews comparing the Cross Climate 2 to an X Ice 2 ,but have never seen a comparison to a performance winter like a Pilot Alpin 5 . How much snow performance is lost here?

As far as summer , the stock outback Toyo tires suck ass anyway, so I don't see giving up too much as opposed to the Conti DWS 06+ on the Audi (couldn't do full summers as way too much erratic shoulder season here where it can be 80 in November or 20 in April). But I have heard the wet braking on the Cross Climates is meh at best.

Only other concern with the CC2 is that having the "winter" tire on all year would lead to way more wear so they would be less effective in the winter.

TLR... Continue to run 2 sets of tires and wheels w Performance Winters w a new Outback Turbo or go CC2?

In your case, I’d probably try a year round 3PMSF with reputable snow performance, like a Nokian WRG4 or Outpost APT, or Falken Wildpeak AT Trail, and also get two pairs of K&K socks to throw in the spare tire compartment of the Subie *just in case* the tires run into shit ass conditions that leave you with less traction than is desirable. That approach suits the 99% of time conditions you will be driving and giving you a bailout for the less than 1% of time that a year round 3PMSF tire doesn’t get the job done. You’ll know quickly if the ride quality midsummer isn’t satisfactory, but as you say, it’s an Outback XT, not an S4 or GTI, you’ve got kids in the back, and you are no longer thinking about midsummer cornering and braking in the same way that you used to.

I don’t have firsthand experience with K&Ks, but I have been watching videos and looking at test data for socks - they basically have about on par grip with chains in most conditions, more durable than Autosocks, smaller and lighter to store than chains, quicker to put on than chains,
no clearance concerns unlike with chains. I bought a set for my RV trailer and will be putting them to use this winter.

[summit]

Width doesn’t make much difference on packed snow or ice.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wf_mIlU82Ac

I go skinny on mine for the deep snow/ slush. Also go smallest rim to get more sidewall for pothole protection and some cost savings (usually).

Edit: You should get the 235/80R17 studded Hakka LT3‘s. Cut right through that deep snow and slush. 31.8” diameter.

I do like skinny tires, I'm all about narrowing snows so you don't get spun by dipping a tire into slush. But is 235 seems really skinny for a 1/2 ton in terms of longevity and dry handling/braking? 265 (31.5") or 255 (31") seems more reasonable?

Also the Hakka 10 SUV is a better performing tire in every respect vs the LT3, especially ride quality (SL vs E ply rating).

I was actually thinking Hakkapallitas for winter and the Nokian Outpost nAT (285/75/18 E) for the other 7-8 months as AT3Ws 285/75/18 C are hard to find.

[east or bust]

I have Hakka 10s on my 4runner in the winter. They are great, no desire to try anything else.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I do like skinny tires, I'm all about narrowing snows so you don't get spun by dipping a tire into slush. But is 235 seems really skinny for a 1/2 ton in terms of longevity and dry handling/braking? 265 (31.5") or 255 (31") seems more reasonable?

Also the Hakka 10 SUV is a better performing tire in every respect vs the LT3, especially ride quality (SL vs E ply rating).

I was actually thinking Hakkapallitas for winter and the Nokian Outpost nAT (285/75/18 E) for the other 7-8 months as AT3Ws 285/75/18 C are hard to find.

I was half serious/half joking with that suggestion. I’d probably go with the Hakka 10 255’s unless you really are putting a premium on the deep snow/slush performance.

Dry/wet performance is probably more affected by them being different tire models than it would be from going from 255 to 235.

[summit]

I was half serious/half joking with that suggestion. I’d probably go with the Hakka 10 255’s unless you really are putting a premium on the deep snow/slush performance.

Dry/wet performance is probably more affected by them being different tire models than it would be from going from 255 to 235.

Indeed. My problem with the 255 XL (31") is that it requires a 20" rim and I'm thinking that will have only a small improvement in handling vs a much larger negative effect on ride quality vs the 265 SL (31.5") on a 17" due to the massive 25% difference in sidewall height. And the 17" tires are massively cheaper... that is assuming I can find some used 17 5x150s for cheap... 20s abound.

[SchralphMacchio]

Summit -
Do you have any good reason not to just stick with the stock diameter and go with the 18s that you listed?
-Your odometer/speedometer won’t be different / off between your summers and winters
-The 116 load index gives a small bump in reserve capacity over the 17” option, aka heat dissipation early and late season during freak heatwaves, without having to go up to 20 inch wheels (which I don’t really understand on trucks but that’s just me)
-Is there any chance you will ever need chains? Like for SAR purposes or something? Could be an issue with the larger diameter sizes

If it’s a popular model half ton, I’m sure you can find reasonably priced 18” take off OE wheels. And for extra good measure get new TPMS transmitter IDs cloned to the summer transmitters so that you can swap without any dashboard lights going off.

[Name Redacted]

I have 20" rims w/ 33"s on my Tundra and can confirm, they aren't optimal. Feel the bumps for sure. I'll probably go 17" or 18" someday.

Wish I could swap them to my 1st gen Sequoia but different hole pattern.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Indeed. My problem with the 255 XL (31") is that it requires a 20" rim and I'm thinking that will have only a small improvement in handling vs a much larger negative effect on ride quality vs the 265 SL (31.5") on a 17" due to the massive 25% difference in sidewall height. And the 17" tires are massively cheaper... that is assuming I can find some used 17 5x150s for cheap... 20s abound.

Ah, didn’t go back and look at the original post. Forgot it was between 265 and 275, not 255.

Regardless, I’d probably go with the 265s on 17” rims, unless you’re dealing with deep snow and slush regularly.

[summit]

Summit -
Do you have any good reason not to just stick with the stock diameter and go with the 18s that you listed?
-Your odometer/speedometer won’t be different / off between your summers and winters
-The 116 load index gives a small bump in reserve capacity over the 17” option, aka heat dissipation early and late season during freak heatwaves, without having to go up to 20 inch wheels (which I don’t really understand on trucks but that’s just me)
-Is there any chance you will ever need chains? Like for SAR purposes or something? Could be an issue with the larger diameter sizes

If it’s a popular model half ton, I’m sure you can find reasonably priced 18” take off OE wheels. And for extra good measure get new TPMS transmitter IDs cloned to the summer transmitters so that you can swap without any dashboard lights going off.

I see your points on load rating, though the 265/70/17 do have a 115 which is very close to 116.
Stock tire is 32.1" on 18s. To do that with a Hakka 10 I'd have to do 275/65/18 since Nokian sadly doesn't make that in a 255/70/18.
So I was gonna use my 18s for AT tires (which I'm going to do 34.8" Nokian Outpost nAT 285/75/18) and buy (17") rims for the snows. The 17" snows also save $300/4 over the 18s which might make up for having to pay more for harder to find 17" rims.
I've never in my life had to use tire chains.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I don’t think I’ve ever HAD to use tire chains. But I’ve definitely been forced to…

[Shredhead]

Ordered Michelin Cross Climate 2's from Costco based on lots of Costco recommendations from customers on this thread.
Got shipping and delivery confirmations and probably ten appointment reminders.
Drove 1:30 and arrived at my appointment time.
No tires and the Costco Associate acted like it was my fault for using Costco.com. Only option was cancel online @Costco. com, reorder and wait three weeks and possibly have the same thing happen again.

[SchralphMacchio]

Yikes, I’m sorry your warehouse has such a crappy employee. Costco can be a headache for tires that aren’t stocked, but the employees don’t have to be a dick about it.

I’ve done two sets of tires from my local warehouse. One was a non stick item and I seem to recall having to wait until the warehouse received them to book my appointment. Their appointment booking system has been shitty for years and it seems like the shop could always use one more roving employee.

I had a tire get irreparable damage and Costco could no longer order the tire from the manufacturer (BFG) as they replaced it with a new model. They didn’t recommend I mix and match, so I had to go to Discount Tire, who still had it in stock, replace the tire, and then have Costco reimburse me for the expense. It was a minor headache, mostly because it was often a challenge getting the Costco tire manager on the phone - but he was always helpful and great. Would have sucked if he was an A-hole.

In general I’ve had better experiences with Discount Tire.

[Name Redacted]

I've never in my life had to use tire chains.

They do come in handy sometimes:
I hauled a friend (who posts here sometimes) w/ a broken back down from Mt Baker in a snowstorm one time. Icy AF, chains were essential, mainly just for peace of mind.
In NZ they require them to get to some of the ski areas, putting them on in the mud is extra fun!
Needed them on a 2wd econoline in AK once. Went heli skiing.
Needed them on my old 2wd Ranger near the tunnel during the blizzard of '03. Got buried in an avalanche the next day.
Blizzard of '97 used them to get my POS Sentra up to Vail and slept in the car in the parking garage a few nights. Great powder days with young legs.

[XXX-er]

I never see chains except on the big trucks, but somethng I have never seen again so I was on the highway headed south when i seen this south azn guy stripped to a T-shirt on foot going north dragging a set of 18 wheeler chains up a steep hill pretty much in the middle of nowhere. I finish my gig and head back home north when I come upon buddy a 2nd time dragging chains up another hill 1 hr further north when i figured it out, these guys must have been hauling out of Vangroovy where there is lots of SA but no snow but they only had one set of chains for 2 trucks

I
early 80's I met a ski bum/ carpenter/ windsurfer/ speed skier ( you know the type) who told me they would sell & instal chains on the road to Tahoe, it was hard work to make 500$ back when that was pretty good money for a days work

[plugboots]

I never see chains except on the big trucks, but somethng I have never seen again so I was on the highway headed south when i seen this south azn guy stripped to a T-shirt on foot going north dragging a set of 18 wheeler chains up a steep hill pretty much in the middle of nowhere. I finish my gig and head back home north when I come upon buddy a 2nd time dragging chains up another hill 1 hr further north when i figured it out, these guys must have been hauling out of Vangroovy where there is lots of SA but no snow but they only had one set of chains for 2 trucks

I
early 80's I met a ski bum/ carpenter/ windsurfer/ speed skier ( you know the type) who told me they would sell & instal chains on the road to Tahoe, it was hard work to make 500$ back when that was pretty good money for a days work

Chain monkeys.

[XXX-er]

Chain monkeys.

please dude the correct nomenclature would be South Asian Canadians

pretty strange to come 800kms narth with no chains in the dead of winter

[whyturn]

Putting my snow tires on Friday I’m not the problem people


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[anotherVTskibum]

I've needed to use chains twice on my Xterra. Both involved trying to get other people unstuck; one was a guy in a new-to-him Wrangler with highway tires on an unplowed forest road, and the other was a guy with bald tires on a full-sized truck in a snowbank at Big Sky.

[mark AT]

I put some Nokian Outpost APT's on my Subaru Outback. Really like the ride and how they handle so far but haven't had them in any bad weather/snow conditions. Despite that, I'm feeling optimistic about them. Had the Falkens prior and liked those a lot but decided to give the Nokia's a try.

[Shredhead]

Ordered Michelin Cross Climate 2's from Costco based on lots of Costco recommendations from customers on this thread.
Got shipping and delivery confirmations and probably ten appointment reminders.
Drove 1:30 and arrived at my appointment time.
No tires and the Costco Associate acted like it was my fault for using Costco.com. Only option was cancel online @Costco. com, reorder and wait three weeks and possibly have the same thing happen again.

Reorded on Tires.com. Tires came in three days and I had them installed the same day, at the local shop, that I can ride my bike to/from.

Maybe $200/more than Costco,but I didn't get Nitrogen.

Well worth it and I won't ever go back to Costco for tires.

[Shredhead]

First big storm on the Cross Climates and they performed admirably.