ON3P SKIS Discussion

[MoeSnow]

I was on J118s at Meadows today and had perhaps the best ski day of the season. When the snow's deep J118s are IT. Skied steep trees, hucked my meat off shit, and blasted through and over chop all day long. 10/10 ski for storm skiing in the PNW.

[XavierD]

After skiing the 186 BGs today thought it was worth sharing for everyone here.

Current (23/24, 24/25) 186 BG is closer to the olde 189 (which was based off the 191) than the older 184/186. The 191 is based off the Super Goat with how the ski balances, but generally a bit toned down

[auvgeek]

After skiing the 186 BGs today thought it was worth sharing for everyone here.

Current (23/24, 24/25) 186 BG is closer to the olde 189 (which was based off the 191) than the older 184/186. The 191 is based off the Super Goat with how the ski balances, but generally a bit toned down

Hmm, can you elaborate? I'm not sure I understand the differences between the model iterations you mention, but I've only skied the 12/13-13/14 191 and then the 2022/2023 187 BG 118 Tour. And also a single run on the WROD with adrenelated's asyms.

[PeachesNCream]

Looks like the jeff108 has less effective edge than the 118. Does the 118 have significantly more rocker than the 108?


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[XavierD]

Hmm, can you elaborate? I'm not sure I understand the differences between the model iterations you mention, but I've only skied the 12/13-13/14 191 and then the 2022/2023 187 BG 118 Tour. And also a single run on the WROD with adrenelated's asyms.

12/13 191 basically became a 189 around 2015 or so, largely to get it under the scary 190 number so people would buy it. This was done by basically cutting 2cm of twin tip off. 186 became a 184 around the same time, and the 193 Supergoat was produced too in that timeline. The 189 and 184 later got the asym treatment around 2017.

187 and 192 were largely new BGs rather than a subtle tweak of the previous one, but still combined elements of multiple previous generations. 187 kinda sat between the old 184/6 and older 189/191. 192 sat closer to the supergoat than the 191 BG.

186 and 191 took what was going on with the 187 and 192 and brought back more of the 2012-2016 era goat aspects. Part of this was moving the mount point back relative to certain aspects of the side cut, and tweaking the tail a bit. End result is how the current 186 ski balances feels more like the 12-16 191/189 than the 12-16 186/184.

[K1mJ0ngTr1ll]

Looks like the jeff108 has less effective edge than the 118. Does the 118 have significantly more rocker than the 108?


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I'm assuming you mean the 108 has more EE than the 118. I believe the reduction in EE comes from more taper in the 118 I don't think is has much more rocker if at all. I could also be completely wrong on this!

[PeachesNCream]

I'm assuming you mean the 108 has more EE than the 118. I believe the reduction in EE comes from more taper in the 118 I don't think is has much more rocker if at all. I could also be completely wrong on this!

Yes, that’s what I meant. Ah interesting


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[AK47bp]

12/13 191 basically became a 189 around 2015 or so, largely to get it under the scary 190 number so people would buy it. This was done by basically cutting 2cm of twin tip off. 186 became a 184 around the same time, and the 193 Supergoat was produced too in that timeline. The 189 and 184 later got the asym treatment around 2017.

187 and 192 were largely new BGs rather than a subtle tweak of the previous one, but still combined elements of multiple previous generations. 187 kinda sat between the old 184/6 and older 189/191. 192 sat closer to the supergoat than the 191 BG.

186 and 191 took what was going on with the 187 and 192 and brought back more of the 2012-2016 era goat aspects. Part of this was moving the mount point back relative to certain aspects of the side cut, and tweaking the tail a bit. End result is how the current 186 ski balances feels more like the 12-16 191/189 than the 12-16 186/184.

Dam, how does one accumulate such knowledge?

Impressive.

Some OG 2012 191 BG stoke from last night in chop.

[PowTron]

I may have too many skis at 118 waist or wider…please keep snowing.





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[sb]

New goats looking good.

[XavierD]

New goats looking good.

Ski good too

[SchralphMacchio]

Posted my Gen 1 177 Woods 108s in GS in case anyone is looking. Great ski ... just the 182 110 works better for me and I no longer want to hold this set as a spare.

[Huskier]

I may have too many skis at 118 waist or wider…please keep snowing.





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And I thought I had a problem...

[PowTron]

New goats looking good.

They are my favorite version since the Bearclaw 191. Easily.


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[Norseman]

They are my favorite version since the Bearclaw 191. Easily.


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Tell us more please.

Are you on the 186 or 191?

[phatty]

Tell us more please.

Are you on the 186 or 191?

Cosign on this ask. Would love a deeper comparison to the bearclaw.

[bern43]

As someone who loves the bearclaw version, but didn't really mesh with the asym 189s, I'm also curious. I could drive the 191 bearclaws. If I tried to do that with the asyms they would just wash out at the end of every turn.

[Bandit Man]

So, IIRC, the "Bear Claw" was the 2013 model. Only the 191 had RES. (See photo below). They absolutely charge in the 191 length.

Starting in 2014 to 2017, all model lengths had RES, with various tweaks to the tail. Asym came in 2018. I still have a pair of 189's. I personally think the Asym 189 is more demanding than the 2013-2017 191, but YMMV.

It's trivial, but unless a person had the 2013 191, they didn't ski the mythical "Bear Claw" BG.

[Norseman]

So, IIRC, the "Bear Claw" was the 2013 model. Only the 191 had RES. (See photo below). They absolutely charge in the 191 length.

Starting in 2014 to 2017, all model lengths had RES, with various tweaks to the tail. Asym came in 2018. I still have a pair of 189's. I personally think the Asym 189 is more demanding than the 2013-2017 191, but YMMV.

It's trivial, but unless a person had the 2013 191, they didn't ski the mythical "Bear Claw" BG.

Not quite true, Mr Bandit, AFAIK.

2011/2012 was the first BG to include RES, but only in the 191cm length.

2012/2013 had a refined RES and in all lengths. That's the bearclaw/manpaw graphic. 2013/2014 and 2014/2015 were the same build. I think 15/16, too, except that's when the 2cm of tail was whacked to make the lineup 189/184/179/174/164.

2016/2017 saw a change to the sidecut to include short straight sections and I think they got a little stiffer. Starting to depart from the magickz.

2017/2018 introduced asymmetrical taper to tips and tails.

[adrenalated]

So, IIRC, the "Bear Claw" was the 2013 model. Only the 191 had RES. (See photo below). They absolutely charge in the 191 length.

Starting in 2014 to 2017, all model lengths had RES, with various tweaks to the tail. Asym came in 2018. I still have a pair of 189's. I personally think the Asym 189 is more demanding than the 2013-2017 191, but YMMV.

It's trivial, but unless a person had the 2013 191, they didn't ski the mythical "Bear Claw" BG.

The 2013 pictured was the first year that had RES in all sizes. The year before was 191 only.

Source - I own an RES pair of 186 from this season.

[Bandit Man]

Not quite true, Mr Bandit, AFAIK.

2011/2012 was the first BG to include RES, but only in the 191cm length.

2012/2013 had a refined RES and in all lengths. That's the bearclaw/manpaw graphic. 2013/2014 and 2014/2015 were the same build. I think 15/16, too, except that's when the 2cm of tail was whacked to make the lineup 189/184/179/174/164.

2016/2017 saw a change to the sidecut to include short straight sections and I think they got a little stiffer. Starting to depart from the magickz.

2017/2018 introduced asymmetrical taper to tips and tails.

Yeah...you are right. Appreciate the correction.

Funny how we all love that ski from over 10 years ago, were told why that ski needed to be changed to have a broader appeal, and now the compelling evidence to try the current evolution is that original benchmark.

Regardless, I've skied my 186 2014's twice this week and have been loving them. I suppose clinging to the nostalgia of yesterday isn't always a bad thing.

[2FUNKY]

Curious as to how the new goat stacks up to the last 187 which in my eyes was dialed and fixed any issue I ever had with the goats. Esp the new 191.


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[kid-kapow]

the previous 182s were pretty damn good as well, if not as good as my 2017 pre-asyms. The new version does admittedly sound dialed though. Can't wait to see the new BG118tours

[XavierD]

Not quite true, Mr Bandit, AFAIK.

2011/2012 was the first BG to include RES, but only in the 191cm length.

2012/2013 had a refined RES and in all lengths. That's the bearclaw/manpaw graphic. 2013/2014 and 2014/2015 were the same build. I think 15/16, too, except that's when the 2cm of tail was whacked to make the lineup 189/184/179/174/164.

2016/2017 saw a change to the sidecut to include short straight sections and I think they got a little stiffer. Starting to depart from the magickz.

2017/2018 introduced asymmetrical taper to tips and tails.

I want to say all of this is correct. But I get a little fuzzy in where the asym changeover happened.

2012/13 RES was also decently refined from the first iteration 191 in 2011/12. The Billy Goat was only 186 in 2008/09 (Tacoma build) and 186, 176 in 2009/10 and 2010/11. Might have been a 166 in there too.

I still think a lot of the nostalgia for skis from 2012-2014 (across all brands) has more to do with that kinda being the culmination of a decade of radical ski shape design from the early 2000s through width, rocker and side cuts. 2012-2014 is when most brands had gone through a couple iterations of rocker taper design and feed back. Skis were also done just getting wider with more rocker. Since that time ski designs, especially shape, has somewhat stalled out.

[beeeom]

Keep the new BG beta coming!

My main 186 bear paws just died and I've only got one back-up pair left... I need the new 186 to hit the mark otherwise I'm fucked when my last pair of bearpaws cacks out.