Ski Edge Touchup Between Tunes- What is less aggressive than a file?

[Kevo]

Mags,

What should I be using to hone my skills edges between tunes? A diamond stone? If so, what grit?

I've heard that once a base and edge bevel is set you can sharpen edges without using something as aggressive as a file for quick sharpening between tunes. What exactly should I use to do this and how should I do it?

Thanks for your help. I'm a tuning jong and don't want to tune my skis so often if it isn't needed.

[gregL]

I've heard that once a base and edge bevel is set you can sharpen edges without using something as aggressive as a file for quick sharpening between tunes. What exactly should I use to do this and how should I do it?

You can maintain your edges between tunes by using diamond stones on the side edges only. I usually use 2, a 200 first then a 400, lubricated with a water/rubbing alcohol mix (clean the diamond surface by scrubbing with a toothbrush and the water/alcohol mix). You will also need a file guide for your side edge bevel of choice and something to hold the stone in place (cheap clips work fine).

[AlpiNord]

Mags,

What should I be using to hone my skills edges between tunes? A diamond stone? If so, what grit?

I've heard that once a base and edge bevel is set you can sharpen edges without using something as aggressive as a file for quick sharpening between tunes. What exactly should I use to do this and how should I do it?

Thanks for your help. I'm a tuning jong and don't want to tune my skis so often if it isn't needed.

This boils it down to the basics.

[gregL]

You can always hire Terry's son for some lessons.

Personally, I almost always use either an 89 degree or 88 degree guide (this is what Sun Valley Ski Tools has marked on them), which give you 1 degree and 2 degree side edge bevels respectively. All my skis are "freeride" or touring skis; when I had race skis I was more aggressive with the side bevels. If you don't have another preference, I'd find out what the manufacturer's bevels are for your ski model(s) and stick with them.

[timmaio]

I use a 100 grit and 200 grit diamond stones for touch up work with a side guide and a base guide. Greg, why do you say only to do side bevel touchups? My base edges often get roughed up as well, so I just take the burrs off them

[adrenalated]

This is by far the best product I have used for edge deburring and basic cleanup:
http://svst.com/Shop/SVST-Polishing-...one-4-1-2.html

Unfortunately, neither Slidewright or Tognar appear to sell it, but maybe Terry would order one for you.

I typically deburr using the course side of this stone. Many times that's all I need. If I need to sharpen a bit, I'll use diamond stones. If I need to sharpen a lot of change bevels, I go to a file. My experience is the combi stone does a much better job knocking burrs from rocks down than diamond stones do.

[AlpiNord]

^^^
(Those are not currently available for us to order, but look nice to have.)

The SkiVisions stones provide a very similar option as do others.

There are a lot of ways to go about deburring and maintaining and sharpening edges, along with edge geometry. Personally, I like to use a 'utility' aluminum oxide stone to knock down the biggest burrs and hit work hardened areas (rock strikes). This reduces wear and tear on nicer stones and diamonds which are used to sharpen and hone the edges. 100, 200 to 400 for me. Sometimes I'll use a super fine or 2nd cut file to cut a bit more if the edges are especially chewed up and progress through the diamond grits or the SkiVisions stones. This typically on the side edges with only minor touch up on the base edges. I'll knock down the burr caused by cutting the side edge so it's smooth, consistent and sharp.

Why not base edges? It can negatively affect performance if done improperly. If you over bevel, gradually the bevel increases and affects the movement and time to get on an edge. To correct it, you'll need to grind down the base to re-establish the base bevel angle.

Side edge angles are easy to change. As gregl said unless you know differently, match what you have.....but don't be afraid to experiment. A more aggressive angle 93/3/87 and above are for grippier needs and firmer snows. Less for softer snows and more all-mountain to powder/BC/touring needs. Try setting one pair of edges to one angle and the other to different angle. Swap feet to feel the difference on the same day and terrain.

Side wall planing or cutting is rarely brought up during edge tuning discussions. If you use stones or diamonds, the side walls will get in the way and affect the ability of the stones to cut the metal edge. You will need to remove the side walls as part of your edge tuning process.

To check existing edge angles with a guide, apply a thin coat of ink using a Sharpie or other felt pen. Put a stone in the guide and run it along the edge. If the ink is removed evenly, you have a match. If the ink comes off more on part of the edge (up or down), you'll see whether or not you'll need a greater or lesser angled guide to match the geometry.

[Mofro261]

I spend a good bit of time working on race skis, but also take care of the powder boards which have see a lot more rocks overt the past couple of seasons.

Start with a gummi stone, medium is fine. This will clean any rust/dirt/ smudges off the edges and prevent it from mucking up nicer files/stones/diamond files. The gummi can also be used to finish polish edges after diamond stones.

Diamond stones are nice but also a bit more of a pain to keep in top condition, like to be used "wet". You can buy "polishing solution", or make your own as it is really just - 50-70% Isopropanol with one drop of dish soap added. The diamond files need to be repeatedly cleaned off (I use a medium/stiff toothbrush) or they stop working.

Edge burrs/damage/case hardened areas I take down with a 100-120 grit diamond file prior to using a file for re-sharpening. If I'm not going to do extensive re-sharpening I'll follow up the 100 grit with a passes using a 220 and a 400 diamond file, and call it good. Light pressure- the stones aren't for setting edge angles though the more aggressive grits can to some extent, more for honing a file set edge.

Don't like needing to use a polishing solution or cleaning tools? You can wrap any file with aluminum oxide sandpaper, 120 grit, 180, 220, 320 etc file skis down toss the paper when it gets worn out. Just be sure you are using a file guide and that the paper is wrapped tight enough the the angle is maintained.

I rarely mess with base edges once they have been set. I have a couple nice svst base-bevel guides but usually just free hand a 220 and then a 400 a few light passes after knocking down any damage with the 120 grit diamond stone.
As long as nothing is hanging down/catching then the base edge is good to go.

Terry and Slidewright are great resources for more in depth tuning info.

[gregL]

Greg, why do you say only to do side bevel touchups? My base edges often get roughed up as well, so I just take the burrs off them

If you have a good base edge bevel guide, sure, but it will take a while to get it smooth (I have access to a wet belt/stone grinder, and it still takes a while). When you sustain base edge damage, the "moved" material ends up on the side edge side - I usually knock it off with a "beater" 80 or 100 diamond stone, touch up with a file, then do the 2 stage diamond stone thing.

[gregL]

After skiing down the frontside of Crystal Mt. on Monday, I spent an hour last night with my Denalis on the Wintersteiger belt sander, going through a variety of grits from 80 to 150, in order to smooth out the base edge surfaces. It would have taken days to do it by hand. If you are picky and want them smooth, you need to remove some material with the belt first, then go back and reset your bevels. If you're gainfully employed, it's probably worth it to pay someone to do this for you, and just do regular maintenance on the side edges.

[Kevo]

Great info. Thanks for the help!

I ordered one of these guys for sharpening my side edges. Are there any stones that will fit in this or should I just spring for a SVST guide?

[AlpiNord]

Great info. Thanks for the help!

I ordered one of these guys for sharpening my side edges. Are there any stones that will fit in this or should I just spring for a SVST guide?

Doubtful. The Ergo is designed for it's proprietary file only. The Ergo Race file measures 80mm x 3mm thick. A Moonflex Mini is 70mm x 5mm thick. A regular Moonflex measures 103mm x 5mm. The SVST bevel guides and clamps are far more versatile and will last a lifetime.

[adrenalated]

I have a variety of combo tools like that Ergo that I bought, aquired, won, or stole over the years, and since purchasing SVST base and edge file guides, I have used none of them.
http://www.slidewright.com/svst-pro-...wear-plate.php
http://www.slidewright.com/svst-the-...eling-tool.php
If I had to do it all over again, I would just buy those two tools the first time and be done with it. They do a FAR better job of sharpening with an accurate angle, quickly and easily, than the handheld combo tool things.

[Lindahl]

Agreed. I ditched my combo a long time ago. A waste.

[WMD]

I waxed my backcountry skis the other day (basically brand new) and noticed the bases are not very flat. They have numerous high and low spots. I'm planning to get them ground flat professionally, but it got me thinking: how flat do they need to be? In other words, if they are off a little is it noticeable? Is a little unevenness acceptable?

[PhishingME]

Anyone use Swix TDM diamond stones?

[AlpiNord]

I waxed my backcountry skis the other day (basically brand new) and noticed the bases are not very flat. They have numerous high and low spots. I'm planning to get them ground flat professionally, but it got me thinking: how flat do they need to be? In other words, if they are off a little is it noticeable? Is a little unevenness acceptable?

It can be a balancing act. If you focus only on getting them perfectly flat, you may end up with no edge and ground to the core.

Softer snows = more base variability is OK. One rule of thumb to avoid railed skis (harder to get off an edge) is to get at least an inch/25mm of flat along the edge. Concave middle 'may' be OK.

Base high makes it harder to get onto an edge, but depending on snow type and degree, you may be only able to moderate it somewhat to avoid grinding the base off in the middle.

[WMD]

It can be a balancing act. If you focus only on getting them perfectly flat, you may end up with no edge and ground to the core.

Softer snows = more base variability is OK. One rule of thumb to avoid railed skis (harder to get off an edge) is to get at least an inch/25mm of flat along the edge. Concave middle 'may' be OK.

Base high makes it harder to get onto an edge, but depending on snow type and degree, you may be only able to moderate it somewhat to avoid grinding the base off in the middle.

Thanks!