Geeky edge angle questions...

[JayPowHound]

I'm stuck with an edge angle dilemma, and before I revive my old epic ski account I thought I'd see what the tech talk gurus have to say..



I bought a pair of Praxis 9d8s in this seasons pre-sale, and from what I'd heard / read, praxis skis had a reputation for coming out of the factory pretty damn sharp. When mine arrived I was happy to see that they were, but a bit surprised when Keith told me they were beveled at 1/1...

I've only been tuning my own edges for a couple years now and had pretty much settled at 1/3 as the $$ spot for the feel I like in mostly traditionally cambered skis. I bought fixed angle file guides accordingly.


Now I'm skiing a Cochise that's tuned 1/2 and digging it, so I think I'm gonna end up buying a 2° edge guide... But what about the fuckin' 9d8s?

Do I keep em as sharp as I can unguided by hand with stones? Do I cut a 2 or 3° bevel into them? Do I have to buy another guide?

WWMD??












I know it doesn't really matter and I should just ski em... That's not really the point of teh thread. How bout dem edges???

[tuco]

I always go with a 1/1. Not as sharp, obviously as 1/2 or 1/3, but more durable 90 degree angle. Not really an issue if you keep up on it. Try the 2 first, go from there

[skimaxpower]

Ski at 1/1 a few times until you hit a rock or they get dull.

If you miss the sharper angle, try 1/2 ??

[JayPowHound]

I've been skiing them at 1/1 and am happy so far... I just don't know how to maintain it without a guide.

Better to try freehand or suck it up and buy a fixed 1°?

Adjustable file guides are pretty much all shit, right??

[Timberridge]

I've settled into a 1/2 on everything. Having all kinds of bevels makes the whole thing more of a pain in the ass.

Just buy the fixed SVST all aluminum side guide. It will last a home tuner forever. No need to spend a small fortune on the ss version.

For the base, I find the cheap Beasts work fine for a couple of seasons. The SVSTs last forever but cost 3.5x the Beast. So, your call there.

Trying to eyeball a side bevel you will be all over the place, especially if you hit a bit of sidewall.

[Damian Sanders]

I use a .7 on the base, but in practice you really get more of a 1 deg out of it. 2 deg on the side.

[stuckathuntermtn]

3 degree side is best for very hard snow. It can be grabby if too sharp with a small turning radius. Not sure if the difference between 2 and 3 is that noticeable, anyway.
.5 degree base will really get the edges grabbing quickly.
Beware that roughing in a new bevel with a panzar, or any file really, may result in base-high bases and needing a sidewall plain. Although, if they're ptex sidewalls, you can just use a razor blade.

[D(C)]

I have one of these and it's an excellent adjustable angle guide. http://www.holmenkol.us/holmenkol-steel-edge-p-211.html. It works with wedges that fit between the file and guide to get the desired angle.

In my experience, 0.5 base, 3 edge is money for race skis. For all mountain skis, 1 base and 1 or 2 edge is good.

[NakedShorts]

Higher Edge Angle = Harder To Roll The Ski To Bite...ie in ability too. However, more bite. When I was a kid we used 3 on our SL and 2 on GS and speed skis. I use a 2 because my skis are both 116 underfoot.

Clutch Piece of Hardware

[RShea]

I've been skiing them at 1/1 and am happy so far... I just don't know how to maintain it without a guide.

Better to try freehand or suck it up and buy a fixed 1°?

Adjustable file guides are pretty much all shit, right??

The one adjustable guide I have is the older style Burton File Guide. It goes from 1 to 5 degrees (at least).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23366497@N02/3162524044/
The new style that replaced it and is sold today is 1 to 3 degree...

Not as precise in my opinion is a SkiVisions Ski Edge Sharpening tool. It is plastic which over time can wear and end up being off if it is used heavily.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Just do all your shit at 2 and 1 if you don't want to fuss.

[MakersTeleMark]

Alpnord to the courtesy phone.

I'm a 1/2 with some detuning after many years of fussing.

[gaijin]

The real question is your base bevel. Brave enough to go 1.5 or even 2?

[AlpiNord]

The next time you need a side edge tune, try the 3° you own and then test. If you don't like the additional grip in firm snows, then get the guide(s) you want. It doesn't take much time or material cutting to change side edge angles and experiment. See here for more info.




I tried two different angles on opposite edges so I could swap feet and edge angle to test on the same run, day, snow, etc.

The softer snow, the angle becomes less significant.

[glademaster]

The real question is your base bevel. Brave enough to go 1.5 or even 2?

I run 1.5 base/2 side on my all mountain/mixed snow skis and 2 base/2 side on my powder skis. Touring skis are set up 2/2 as well.

[gaijin]

I run 1.5 base/2 side on my all mountain/mixed snow skis and 2 base/2 side on my powder skis. Touring skis are set up 2/2 as well.

I find 1.5-2 base on wider skis (over 90mm) to be ideal but people tend to give me a double-take when I mention it.

Try it, guys. It loosens them up and is still there when you're laying them down and need it.

[charles martel]

FWIW I've changed my thoughts on this as I've learned from both tuners and heard what good skiers are using as edge angles. (Up until this year, I actively coached alpine snowboard racers and I learned a lot from what they told me, what they got from emailing WC racers and experimenting.) I may change again as I learn more.

Base anywhere from .5 to 2 is considered reliable and a matter of personal choice.

Some "experts" have knocked the 1 degree side, but if it works, then use it. It used to be the standard for a long time. 3 degree is somewhat standard now, but I've also heard of some companies using the 2 degree. (Some alpine snowboard racers use 4 or 5 degree side, but they're carving on steeper ice through the gates.)

On wider skis, I think proper boot alignment is an important component. Thank about it: if you're out any more than a degree (I'm out 31/2 on left leg.), you run the risk of catching the outside edge of the uphill ski, which, believe me, is a wicked experience for ripping your crotch and/or knee to shit, plus having a bad fall/face plant at speed. After all, on a wide ski the edge is way far away from the longitudinal axis of the ski, which magnifies you're poor alignment toward the outside edge. Given that, I could see having a 2 degree base on the wider ski just to minimize that.

Like others have said here at TGR, detune a centimeter at a time and make sure there is not a burr or a micro-burr along the entire edge.

Production standards vary a lot, even within the same company for the same skis. Even on the same pair of skis, based angles and edge angles can vary and be different from ski to ski. That goes for the base finishing, which can be edge high in one place and base high in another. In the older days when everyone slid their turns with their feet together and speeds were a lot slower, 1 and 1 worked just fine and alignment was less of an issue. Now, skis and boots are better and much faster, so a tune that works for you is more individualized within wider parameters.

[El Chupacabra]

I find 1.5-2 base on wider skis (over 90mm) to be ideal but people tend to give me a double-take when I mention it.

Try it, guys. It loosens them up and is still there when you're laying them down and need it.

But if you try a 2* base bevel, and want to go back to 1*, doesn't that require a base grind? (if you just change the edge bevel from 2 to 1, won't you end up base high?)

[JayPowHound]

The real question is your base bevel. Brave enough to go 1.5 or even 2?

Not on the 9d8s but could probably be talked into it for the Cochise. Maybe I'll drop em at the shop and get it cut in this weekend..