Safest helmets

[nick > jesus]

^^^You are correct, in the paper I referenced above they were also testing experimental scalp analogues to improve helmet testing.

I read this article on ESPN a few years ago about a custom mouth guards designed to help prevent concussions. The explanation offered seems plausible:

Maher produces a skull to demonstrate how its parts, and his mouthguard, work. The lower jaw, or mandible, extends up from the chin, ending in a knuckle-like knob called a condyle. The skull, or temporal bone, makes up the rest of the head and houses the brain. In between the jaw and skull, at the temporomandibular joint, a dime-size disk of cartilage sits atop the condyle.

According to Maher, 64 percent of adults have misaligned mandibles. When someone who is "off his disk" is struck with sufficient force, the top of the jaw can be driven smack into the skull, causing a concussion. Maher says he can realign a patient's mouth to center the jaw and make sure the cartilage disk, not the brain, absorbs a hit to the chin, mouth or cheek. "The disk is like an air bag in a car," he explains.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2314899

Also, its interesting to hear that other sports are using significantly more advanced materials and technology than skiing. Ski helmets are pretty expensive, and the form is the main thing that's been improving. Other than poc, most companies dont really focus on safety. Aesthetics, audio systems, and the like seem to come first.

[herr_stoiber]

here's a couple of things to consider.

as previous posts have noted, we want to prevent the brain from two things: moving around in the skull sideways, and rotating in the skull. for the second point the only research I've heard about is by POC but I can't tell you right now whether this is marketing BS or substantial.

shells: a good, strong shell will spread the energy absorption across a larger surface area and also absorb some energy upon cracking (especially composite helmets, carbon etc). also the shell should reduce friction so energy absorption is spread over a longer time period on impact when sliding.

liners: most helmets use EPS, that's the styrofoam-like stuff found also in most bike helmets. basically, EPS absorbs energy by getting destroyed that's why these helmets are only designed for a single impact. the problem is that EPS doesn't do a lot to protect you from impacts with little energy, like you encounter on average crashes, while playing in the park, etc. so basically these helmets will protect you from major injury in a strong crash, but you might still be getting small concussions on the lighter hits.
Bern helmets use brock foam in their hard hats, which starts to absorb energy in much smaller impacts and can also take a lot of these hits because the foam returns to its original shape. yet it probably does not perform that well on the really large hits (although it will still be in the same league as others). so this may be a better choice for people that hit their head often. Some manufacturers use EPP (Sweet, POC, some kayaking companies) which is like a more flexible multi-impact version of EPS. EPP has the capability to return back to its original shape after moderate impacts and has better absorption values for lesser impacts.

so basically my suggestion is to not buy EPS helmets no matter from what manufacturer.

[skiburgher]

So I've been reading this thread with great interest. As a glade skier who probably saved a skull fracture with a Giro helmet years ago, I'm wondering if the bottom line is that all helmets offer the same somewhat inadequate protection or whether the POCs are really better?

[herr_stoiber]

whether the POCs are really better?

I wouldn't say that POC helmets are any better than the other top notch helmets. and in any case, most people will agree that fit is the most important factor in choosing a helmet. if you have the extra cash, go for EPP.

so, bottom line is a) wear any helmet and b) then it's probably the best option not to fall on your head at all. given all the strain to your neck vertebrae and muscles and the possibility of spinal damage

[krick]

I mentioned this helmet earlier in this thread, but worth bringing up again since alternatives to EPS are being discussed. The Amplid Plasma uses, for lack of a better descriptor, bean-bag type cushioning instead of EPS or EPP - http://amplit.de/misc/helmtech.php. No idea how much of this is marketing hype and it doesn't look like these are available in the US yet however.

[Beyond]

here's a couple of things to consider.

liners: most helmets use EPS, that's the styrofoam-like stuff found also in most bike helmets. basically, EPS absorbs energy by getting destroyed that's why these helmets are only designed for a single impact. the problem is that EPS doesn't do a lot to protect you from impacts with little energy, like you encounter on average crashes, while playing in the park, etc. so basically these helmets will protect you from major injury in a strong crash, but you might still be getting small concussions on the lighter hits...

Some manufacturers use EPP (Sweet, POC, some kayaking companies) which is like a more flexible multi-impact version of EPS. EPP has the capability to return back to its original shape after moderate impacts and has better absorption values for lesser impacts.

so basically my suggestion is to not buy EPS helmets no matter from what manufacturer.

^^^^^ Not sure I agree with the "no matter" because even EPS is better than nothing, but I use a Sweet, like both the EPP foam and the carbon fiber shell that outperforms plastic. Have taken some hits in the trees, no issues. Highly recommended.

[skiburgher]

I'm not sure Sweet is available in the US

[bbense]

I mentioned this helmet earlier in this thread, but worth bringing up again since alternatives to EPS are being discussed. The Amplid Plasma uses, for lack of a better descriptor, bean-bag type cushioning instead of EPS or EPP - http://amplit.de/misc/helmtech.php. No idea how much of this is marketing hype and it doesn't look like these are available in the US yet however.

More on that helmet here

http://gizmodo.com/5886225/bean-bag-...tter-than-foam

Looks like interesting technology...

[Cocximus]

Curious what you guys think about motocross DOT helmets for skiing. I know all motorcycle helmets are EPS, but how does the DOT test standards compare to sporting helmet standards. Actually screw DOT, ECE is much better than DOT and arguably even better than SNELL in some instances, but it doesn't carry the huge price tag.

POC Skull Comp 2.0 Helmet 2012 Certifications: EN 1077 - Class A
Smith Variant Certifications: ASTM F 2040, CE EN 1077:2007 CLASS B

[nick > jesus]

The weight of DOT helmets is an issue. These days most motocross riders have neck braces that help support the helmet, but In skiing they would likely cause problems from landing forces and whiplash in high speed tumbling/tomahawking crashes. In general I have some concerns about the protection low-profile lightweight helmets offer, but there is a degree of safety benefit to lightness.

[Vinman]

nick is spot on here, the weight might transfer in to more cervical strain/sprain in a crash. Impact protection is likely better but yet again it can not control the deceleration forces from intertia on the brain itself. This is the major flaw with any and all helmets.

Helmets offer the best protection from IMPACT, they can not offer a slower deceleration of the brain inside the skull, I don't care what type of material you have, shake your skull hard enough, even without impact, and you'll get a concussion.

I know a neurologist who describes a video she was shown in med school. It was of a monkey that was being tested for exactly this. Her description is more graphic but essential the monkey gets hit with a hammer, there is blood but the monkey is just pissed. The next monkey gets hit harder, there is some blood and even a skull fractures, this monkey is more pissed. last they take a helmeted monkey and shake his head violently, this monkey is dazed and appears to have trouble focusing his eyes, he has a concussion.

Believe me I'm a big fan of helmets but they are not the magic bullet some folks think they are. This goes for skiing/snowbaording, football, hockey, lacrosse and what ever else folks wear helmets for.

[krick]

as previous posts have noted, we want to prevent the brain from two things: moving around in the skull sideways, and rotating in the skull. for the second point the only research I've heard about is by POC but I can't tell you right now whether this is marketing BS or substantial.

AFAIK, the only POC model that's touted as offering some protection against rotational injury is the Receptor Backcountry MIPS model. What seems odd to me, however, is that if this feature were actually as important and beneficial as it's touted to be for skiing, then why wouldn't POC be implementing it in every model?

EDIT: Also, only a couple of the POC models use EPP. Others use EPS or a combination of EPS and EPP. Seems that not POC can't make up its own mind as to what works best.

[Beyond]

I'm not sure Sweet is available in the US

Used to be this: north-america@sweetprotection.com, guy in the NW, but that was three years ago, can't say for sure now. Was super helpful, I ended up exchanging the size I ordered for a larger, no problems.

[gladstone]

A happy medium for the motocross type helmet is probably the troy lee designs d3 seth morrison helmet.

[auvgeek]

^^ Pretty sure they discontinued that graphic.

Love the helmet, but I'm not sure it's worth the coin if you're on a budget. I messed up the visor yesterday in a tomahawking crash. The helmets come with spare visor, but I managed to rip out the little plastic insert that keeps the visor from flapping around without even damaging the visor They want $50 to replace it. Stupid design, IMO. Why not have a metal helical insert into the helmet so that the plastic visor breaks first and can be replaced with the space that comes with the helmet?

Not so mad about the $50 (though that is 1/2 the cost of any other decent helmet), but more concerned about the time it will take to have it shipped down, repaired, and shipped back.

Also, sorry about that comment regarding mouthguards. I was thinking about the article quoted by nick>jesus above and the thread on concussions in Gimp Central. Not conclusive by any means. But if you're prone to or worried about concussions, it can't hurt to have a mouth guard made by a dentist.

[gladstone]

Bummer about the visor but no concussion right?

[auvgeek]

This is true. It's definitely a great helmet, and I'm not complaining at all (though my post does come across that way...oops). Love mine and would buy it again. But it's probably not twice as good as other full face helmets, as the price seems to indicate. Just wanted to throw out my opinion as it's an issue I'm dealing with literally right now.

[Vinman]

If you are looking for a good mouth guard that you can form yourself and then get customized, look up OPro mouth guards.

http://www.opro.com/

Fighting gravity on a daily basis

[skiburgher]

Thought I would open up this thread again rather than starting a new one. Anyone have any more experience with the MIPS helmets. I'm trying to decide whether it's worth upgrading to from my old Boeri.

[Kenny Satch]

Thought I would open up this thread again rather than starting a new one. Anyone have any more experience with the MIPS helmets. I'm trying to decide whether it's worth upgrading to from my old Boeri.

Since 2013 has there been any further improvements in ski helmets besides MIPS technology?
Are the materials better or about the same and should MIPS technology be in every helmet?

[smartyiak]

Not for skiing yet, but 6D is kinda interesting for bikes. Prolly only a matter of time before they add a warm liner for skiing.
https://www.6dhelmets.com/innovation/
https://www.6dhelmets.com/product-ca...lmets/cycling/

[old goat]

Not for skiing yet, but 6D is kinda interesting for bikes. Prolly only a matter of time before they add a warm liner for skiing.
https://www.6dhelmets.com/innovation/
https://www.6dhelmets.com/product-ca...lmets/cycling/

any information about these helmets and whether they are more effective, besides what comes from the manufacturer?

[Kenny Satch]

Not for skiing yet, but 6D is kinda interesting for bikes. Prolly only a matter of time before they add a warm liner for skiing.
https://www.6dhelmets.com/innovation/
https://www.6dhelmets.com/product-ca...lmets/cycling/

Looks impressive and seems so logical but it begs the question of why hasn't it crossed over into ski helmets
perhaps it's just a matter of time?

[wooley12]

Put a ski sticker on it, mod the strap if it needs it. Ski helmet. ?

https://www.6dhelmets.com/atb-1t/