boot pain and intuition liners

[bonghizit1187]

the front outsides of my feet hurt and it comes and goes sometimes worse than others. i'm sure most of you are familiar with this pain and i was just wondering if anyone has solved it by using intuition liners rather than punching out the actual plastic? i don't intend on buying a new pair of boots b/c i have experienced this phenomenom with every pair of boots i've owned and i love the performance of my lange wc 120s. thanks in advance and please dont ask me to search.

[gisforgaper]

For me, no. I still needed a small stretch for the inside of my ankle to cure that outside/front of the foot pain. The intuition liner did a great job of filling the boot and giving better hold, but the places that were too small before the liner were still too small after the intuition was molded.

[Beder]

In my experience Intuitions ain't gonna fix a shell problem.
$10 for a punch last time I had one.

[mntlion]

Short answer: Odds are that if the stock boots hurt they will with intuitions too.

medium answer: Find a good boot fitter and talk to them

long answer: (will take some work for you)
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s....php?p=2056447


So a few questions that you can answer that will help this out.

1) What is the shell fit like for length? Remove the liner, put your foot in the shell only, have your toes lightly touching the front of the boot and see how much room is behind your heel and the boots shell. Use a pen as a spacer and measure this for thickness. You want 5-15mm (1/8 to ½ inch) of room. If you have more then 25mm stop here

2) What is the shell fit like for width? Now center your foot front to back, (same amount of room behind the toe and heel) and is the width of your foot touching the sides of the boots shell? You want anything from lightly brushing to 2mm per side. If you have 3mm per side stop here.

3) Do you have any footebds? Most people find a off the rack, or full custom footbed more comfortable, and helps to hold the foot in place better, Get one.

So if you boot is within all of the above parameters we can go on. If you boot is just too big it is not worth working on. Your foot will still move around, you have to over tighten the buckles, and cramp to foot and cut off circulation (cold toes). Your boots are too big, and nothing will make that much better. Don’t waste your time, and money fixing a broken leg with bandaids. You need boots that are 1-2 sizes smaller. If you really want work on what you have, a boot fitter can do somethings, but it will not get much better, and will be $50 - $150 for not much progress.

So now that your boot is within a workable size range in length, width and with a supportive footbed we can go on to getting more info.


A few basic things to check first:

1) You just have one, thin, clean ski sock in the boots
2) You just have a sock in the boot? (no thermals, jewelry, etc)
3) Your toe nails are trimmed short?
4) They are YOUR boots and not borrowed?
5) You are just skiing in your ski boots? (not walking, driving etc)?
6) You dry your liners out at night either with a dryer or remove liners?
7) The left liner, the left footbed are in the left boot and this is on the left foot?
8) You are loosening the buckles if you are not skiing (while standing, on lifts, etc)
9) You are not skiing all day in new boots? They need time to break in
10) Buckles are pointing to the outside?


So your boots are the right size, AND you are doing everything else right, but still the boots are not 100% right. These questions will help a boot fitter will have a better understanding of the problem and can start to help you. Better Or Worse = (BOW)

1) BOW with the buckles tighter or looser?

2) BOW with thinner or thicker socks?

3) BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)?

4) BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)?

5) BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?)

6) BOW on the first vs the third day?

7) BOW on harder or easier terrain?

8) BOW with the power straps (velcro straps) tighter or looser?

9) BOW if you do any particular movements, or actions?

10) Any medical, health, or weight changes since you used them last?

[critical-motion]

I have super wide feet that barely fit into the ~108mm last of my atomic boots. The boots were impossible to wear with the stock liners and were even quite painful on the outside edge of my feet with Intuition liners. My solution was to tape a bunch of thick sock material to the outside edge of my foot and between my toes to make my foot larger before re-molding the liners. I have to say that the fix has been very successful.

However the results depend largely on the current shell fit of your boots and the size of intuition liner used. Intuition liners rarely take up more space than a stock liner, so you want to be careful not to create space in areas where it is not needed.

[shasti]

Stretching boots is not really a big deal, and the lange WC 120 is one of the boots I stretched the most often when I was a bootfitter. It has a fairly narrow forefoot and when you look at your foot without a sock on it it generally gets wider towards the toes, not narrower. The trick is, room in the toebox compromises control at an alarming rate, that is, if you even have a little, you will have a semi sloppy fit (this is assuming you know how to ski, have been doing it a while, like your boots to fit snug, and have a decent idea of what "control" really means). Therefore, you are looking for that magical medium where forefoot width is perfectly correlated to your foot - this may take a stretch or grind.

I wouldn't worry about it, just take it to a GOOD bootfitter and be precise about the place, type and intensity of pain, and he will hook it up.

Oh, and to answer your question, the sucess of the intuition liner in fixing this problem on its own depends upon the criteria mntlion posted about your forefoot in shell. If you are flush against the sides of the shell (as a lot of people are in that boot) you are not going to fix it with the liner alone. If you have some room then the intuition could fix it. The trick it seems would be to look at your stock liner and assess how thick the padding is across the area where you are getting pain - often it is smushed close to flat in which case an intuition really wouldn't help and the boots should be stretched.

[bonghizit1187]

yea shasti you hit the nail on the head...the reason i am dealing with this problem is because i need performance. I heard you can effectively shave the intuition liners to eliminate pain, so i was thinking maybe I could solve this pain by doing just that. I don't want to loose performance by widening the forefoot, and when it comes down to it i'm broke and using a bootfitter has always seemed to rich for my blood. i've always dealt with the pain in exchange for performance but I'm thinking there has to be a better way and painful feet doesn't help my skiing...

any advice as far as working on the boots myself? and anyone with experience shaving the intuition liners?

thats again for that edit shasti...i think i may be able to fix this without fuckin with the shell becuz there is a little bit of room where the pain is and my foot is not totally flush with the shell.

[jondrums]

The trick is, room in the toebox compromises control at an alarming rate,

I don't want to loose performance by widening the forefoot,

I don't think you understood shasti. widening the toebox does not compromise control - having SLOP in the toebox compromises control. If the toebox is too narrow, you just add pain not control.

Jon

[bonghizit1187]

yes i think you and shasti are both right...there is a fine line between not having pain and slop.

[mntlion]

getting this work done (wider toe box) is a simple / quick job, under $50, Not that rich for no pain.....

[robnow]

2) What is the shell fit like for width? Now center your foot front to back, (same amount of room behind the toe and heel) and is the width of your foot touching the sides of the boots shell? You want anything from lightly brushing to 2mm per side. If you have 3mm per side stop here.

You really need to go see mntlion. He actually invented a special pair of x-ray glasses for just this prupose. Oh, that and to check out the bodies on all the tourist babes coming into his shop.

[bonghizit1187]

well thanks everyone. i took the stock liners out and shaved a bit of material off the areas that hurt than threw 'em in the oven for a bit and i was actually able to hike in them. stoked.

[bonghizit1187]

oh yea and 50 dollars is alot of money