Best Epoxy - Top Sheet Repair

**Chainsaw_Willie** · 09-30-2006, 03:09 AM

What's the best epoxy to use for a topsheet repair?

obviously it needs to stick well to plastic and remain somewhat flexible when cold.

If it comes in red, that's an added bonus.

Brand name would be very helpful. Thanks!

**Borat** · 09-30-2006, 04:56 AM

I had been using epoxy in the past, but I just did a repair with "Gorilla Glue" on a pair of Public Enemy Demo's I've been fixing up- Its much easier to work with, at least for me, than epoxy.

http://www.gorillaglue.com/home.htm

**Nobody Famous** · 09-30-2006, 05:38 AM

Interested to hear any add'l responses on this.

**Hook** · 09-30-2006, 06:44 AM

I've had good luck with WEST SYSTEM epoxy. It's held well on some old rossi bandits,a wakeboard, and many repairs on windsurfers. (foot bindings, fin box, etc)

The dispenser pumps are measured so you just count the pump strokes for the proper mixture.

Their products are available at West marine and Boaters world.

The key with any bonding is clean mating surfaces, and complete surface area wet out.

**Core Shot** · 09-30-2006, 07:09 AM

I know some ski shops use "hardman" brand epoxy.

JBWeld is a good hardward store epoxy for filling holes and gouges. Light grey in color. Thicker is helpful for building up gouges. I used it for some sidwall repair for my Bro blems and it has held up very well.

I have had mixed results with the regular clear loctite brand epoxy.

You can add color pigments to the clear epoxy, but it weakens the bond. pigments are sold at marine supply houses.

**Jer** · 09-30-2006, 07:42 AM

Generally, the longer it takes to set up the more flexible the bond will be. Stay away from "5 minute" epoxy and stuff like that. I use Loctite epoxy - "Hysol" something or other (I can't think of the number off the top of my head). It's pretty expensive and it takes at least 24 hours to set up properly, but it's a lasting fix.

**marshalolson** · 09-30-2006, 07:55 AM

locktite 24 hour - 2nd'd for filling in. use a little more resin than hardener for a little more flexible weld. it will take atleast 48+ hours with more resin. always let dry near a heat register to keep it warm and dry.

the 2 ton is nice for gluing things together, but will chip out if put in think to fill a gap.

jb weld is also great for fixing cracks and gluing delams together, especially on capped skis. but again, is not the best for filling in, unless you use about 10% more resin than hardener.

**mtbakerskier** · 09-30-2006, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by marshalolson

jb weld is also great for fixing cracks and gluing delams together, especially on capped skis. but again, is not the best for filling in, unless you use about 10% more resin than hardener.

DO NOT EVER alter the ratio's of resin to hardner. It will not change the epoxies properties. However it will significantly effect the curring process.

If you need filler, use some choped up steel wool. As for color, most GOOD non-hardware store epoxy systems manufacture color additives that you can add to the mix to get what ever color you want.

Your best bet is to skip the hardware store and go to a fiberglass shop.

**pechelman** · 09-30-2006, 11:09 AM

2nd ^

If you want a more flexible epoxy, why not just buy one?
I know home depot sells a marine waterproof epoxy with a 30% higher strain to failure that most epoxies.

2nd the chopped up glass or steel wool as well

**Voltron** · 09-30-2006, 12:37 PM

http://www.spirakut.com/epoxy_chart.html

**Professor Chaos** · 09-30-2006, 02:31 PM

Ive tried many different brands on skis, wood, metal, and others. I dont have any particular brand, but Ive stuck with high - higher end products with a curing time of no less than 24 hours. If you get anything that falls under those two you'll be golden.

**Chainsaw_Willie** · 10-01-2006, 05:43 PM

Thanks for all the input.

El Duderino - what are some of the brands you've used and been happy with?

**mrkristofo** · 10-01-2006, 08:28 PM

Hardman Urethane works really well. Excellent flexibility, and bonds very strongly in 60 minutes. You only have about 2-3 minutes to work with it after mixing, though, so work quickly! The packages are pretty small (maybe 25mL of adhesive), so for a large repair you'll need many. But, since it sets up so quickly chances are you won't use it all up anyway before it polymerizes.

You can get it in bulk here: http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/pr...0877822&pfx=EW

or individually from tognar.

**carl jay** · 10-02-2006, 07:37 AM

ive found selly's araldite has worked pretty well - hasnt chipped after 50 days of use.

**FNG** · 10-02-2006, 01:41 PM

JBWeld and Permatex for the win.

I've had good results letting the epoxy cure clamped down inside the 'hotbox'.

**marshalolson** · 10-02-2006, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by mtbakerskier

DO NOT EVER alter the ratio's of resin to hardner. It will not change the epoxies properties. However it will significantly effect the curring process.

hmm... interesting. thanks

**kidwoo** · 10-02-2006, 03:04 PM

Anybody else use marine tech?

I've used it to fill some holes from a blown edge and it seems pliable enough.....more than most epoxies I've used (assuming it's not an epoxy....I don't remember)

**Core Shot** · 10-02-2006, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by mtbakerskier

DO NOT EVER alter the ratio's of resin to hardner. It will not change the epoxies properties. However it will significantly effect the curring process.

Sorry, but I did go to college.
I learned 2 things.

1) The catalyst (hardener) will effect the curing process, and the amount of catalyst will affect the nature of the final product.

2) more catalyst makes the reaction proceed faster. This creates shorter polymer chains and makes the epoxy more brittle. Less catalyst makes the reaction proceed more slowly, creating longer polymer chains and more interlinking of chains and incresed strength.

PS - I like the link to the epoxy chart at spirakut that was posted. Clearly "devcon" 5 minute epoxy is preferred for glueing quarters to the shop floor.

**Dug** · 10-02-2006, 07:20 PM

I used the marine 24-hour epoxy from home depot and it worked pretty well on the mojo 90's. Sure it's not red, but whatver.

**intro** · 10-02-2006, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by Dug

I used the marine 24-hour epoxy from home depot and it worked pretty well on the mojo 90's. Sure it's not red, but whatver.

so your topsheets coming off too? i just sent mine back after getting sick of gluing them up. used clear araldite which seemed to work _ok_ as long as i left it for a good few days.

**kidwoo** · 10-02-2006, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by Core Shot

Sorry, but I did go to college.
I learned 2 things.

1) The catalyst (hardener) will effect the curing process,

You should go back. Go to a different one though. Yours was broken.

Take a manners class too.

**Dug** · 10-02-2006, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by intro

so your topsheets coming off too?

I suspect many of the 06 mojo 90's have some sort of issue with the topsheet chipping. I've seen/heard of a lot of them having that problem.

**mtbakerskier** · 10-03-2006, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by Core Shot

Sorry, but I did go to college.
I learned 2 things.

1) The catalyst (hardener) will effect the curing process, and the amount of catalyst will affect the nature of the final product.

2) more catalyst makes the reaction proceed faster. This creates shorter polymer chains and makes the epoxy more brittle. Less catalyst makes the reaction proceed more slowly, creating longer polymer chains and more interlinking of chains and incresed strength.

PS - I like the link to the epoxy chart at spirakut that was posted. Clearly "devcon" 5 minute epoxy is preferred for glueing quarters to the shop floor.

Actually your wrong. While you went to college, you probally didn't study plastics and composites engineering. All epoxies that are comercially avaliable are SPECIFICALLY formulates to be STRONGEST when mixed at the specified ratio. Pg. 63 of "The Handbook of Composites"

" Epoxy resin Systems MUST be formulates on a RATIONAL basis and the chemical structure of the constistuents fomrs this basis."

The type of Catalyst and the amount used is total dependent upon the type of constituents used. Aliphatic amine cured system generally reacts rapidly at room temperature and works best if low-viscosity is needed for proccessing. While Aromatic amine cured systems are sluggish at room temps.

The amount of curring agent used is CRITICAL in acheiveing a stable, well developed cross linked net work. The cross linking of the resin durring the cure cycle is whate gives epoxy it's strength. Ussing less than the recomended amount of catalyst will cause the epoxy to not acheive a fully crosslinked network, and it will significantly lack strength. Ussing too much will also hamper the cross linking and can lead to an exothermic reaction.

**Core Shot** · 10-03-2006, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by kidwoo

You should go back. Go to a different one though. Yours was broken.

Take a manners class too.

Heh.
I stand by my statement. Effect and Affect is one of those things noone seems to care about anymore.

Here's the proof, dumbass, since I have no manners:

Main Entry: effect
Function: transitive verb
1 : to cause to come into being
2 a : to bring about often by surmounting obstacles : ACCOMPLISH <effect a settlement of a dispute> b : to put into operation <the duty of the legislature to effect the will of the citizens>
synonym see PERFORM
usage Effect and affect are often confused because of their similar spelling and pronunciation. The verb 2affect usually has to do with pretense <she affected a cheery disposition despite feeling down>. The more common 3affect denotes having an effect or influence <the weather affected everyone's mood>. The verb effect goes beyond mere influence; it refers to actual achievement of a final result <the new administration hopes to effect a peace settlement>. The uncommon noun affect, which has a meaning relating to psychology, is also sometimes mistakenly used for the very common effect. In ordinary use, the noun you will want is effect <waiting for the new law to take effect> <the weather had an effect on everyone's mood>.

I do, however, retract my statement about catalyst ratios to the extent that I implied that one should deviate greatly from the standard ratios. Too much or too little hardener will not create a proper cross linked bond.

I also specifcally acknowledge my weakness when faced with a man possessing pg 63 of the handbook of composites.

Honestly, one of the problems we face in repairing a sidewall or delam is that given the quantity of epoxy we need, judging an extra 10% of resin is almost as hard as judging whether you have a 50/50 mix of hardner and resin in the first place.
I'ts different when you are mixing it by the quart.

**marshalolson** · 10-03-2006, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by Core Shot

Honestly, one of the problems we face in repairing a sidewall or delam is that given the quantity of epoxy we need, judging an extra 10% of resin is almost as hard as judging whether you have a 50/50 mix of hardner and resin in the first place.
I'ts different when you are mixing it by the quart.

a gram scale helps.

but fair enough, mtbakerskier, i'll listen, and use normal ratios - though the repairs have always turned out really well...