My Bill from a one day trip to the ER for "chest pain"...

[Mofro261]

$24,950.

Insurance allowed - $12,150.

My co-pay $150.

Thank you Premeara Blue Cross.

Knowing the heart is good to go for exercising at 180 bpm: priceless.



G.

[helmetcam]

$24,950.

Insurance allowed - $12,150.

My co-pay $150.

Thank you Premeara Blue Cross.

Knowing the heart is good to go for exercising at 180 bpm: priceless.



G.

How much you want to bet the $24K number was way overpriced in order to get the maximum out of the insurance company? They know Premeara's max is $12K for that procedure but if they only charge 12 they'll get 6K.

No way the hospital is losing $12K on you. Its so stupid its sad.

[stuckathuntermtn]

yeah, and a 180bpm is fucking crazy
EDIT: i go into hibernation in the summer, so i'm at like 18

[freshie247]

For that kind of money ,you should have a bionic appendage!

$24,950.

Insurance allowed - $12,150.

My co-pay $150.

Thank you Premeara Blue Cross.

Knowing the heart is good to go for exercising at 180 bpm: priceless.



G.

[mr_gyptian]

how old are you and how bad was the pain?

[Andy_B]

yeah, and a 180bpm is fucking crazy
EDIT: i go into hibernation in the summer, so i'm at like 18

When I'm racing my avg is at about 195, for up to 5 hours. Max is 215.

I'm going to explode one of these days.

[Baaahb]

the friggin shame here is that you didn't have insurance, the hospital would have expected you to pay the full $24K


I just don't get it.


If you don't have insurance, then you're charged MORE.


Biggest dumbass problem in our country, as far as I'm concerned.

[Mofro261]

how old are you and how bad was the pain?

36. Dull ache only on the left side and down the left arm that was re-occurrant over ~6weeks, but finally felt bad enough to make me go to the ER and subsequently get my first Physical in ~15 yrs.

The bill was huge because they ended up doing a lot of tests and ultimately giving me an angiogram to rule out any heart abnormalities, for a healthy (youngish but aging) guy with no family history of heart disease who does a fair amount of distance running. Cholestrol was at 160.


Not having insurance would have caused another un-scheduled surgery to remove a kidney.

[mrryde]

36. Dull ache only on the left side and down the left arm that was re-occurrant over ~6weeks, but finally felt bad enough to make me go to the ER and subsequently get my first Physical in ~15 yrs.

The bill was huge because they ended up doing a lot of tests and ultimately giving me an angiogram to rule out any heart abnormalities, for a healthy (youngish but aging) guy with no family history of heart disease who does a fair amount of distance running. Cholestrol was at 160.


Not having insurance would have caused another un-scheduled surgery to remove a kidney.

so lemme guess hiatal(sp) hernia or acid reflux?

[4matic]

When I'm racing my avg is at about 195, for up to 5 hours. Max is 215.

I'm going to explode one of these days.

Just curious. How old are you? That's what sucks about getting old.. I'm 51 and the max I can get is 185 (pretty good for a geezer)

The formula is pretty accurate:


Calculation of Maximum Heart Rate
The easiest and best known method to calculate your maximum heart rate (MHR) is to use the formula MHR=220 - Age. A paper by Londeree and Moeschberger (1982) from the University of Missouri-Columbia indicates that the MHR varies mostly with age, but the relationship is not a linear one. They suggest an alternative formula of MHR=206.3 - (0.711 × Age). Similarly, Miller et al (1993) from Indiana University propose the formula MHR=217 - (0.85 × Age) as a suitable formula to calculate MHR.

Londeree and Moeschberger also looked at other variables to see if they had any effect on the MHR. They found that neither sex nor race makes any difference but they did find that the MHR was affected by the activity and levels of fitness.

Studies have shown that MHR on a treadmill is consistently 5 to 6 beats higher than on a bicycle ergometer and 2 to 3 beats higher on a rowing ergometer. Heart rates while swimming are significantly lower, around 14 bpm, than for treadmill running. Elite endurance athletes and moderately trained individuals will have a MHR 3 or 4 beats slower than a sedentary individual. It was also found that well trained over 50s are likely to have a higher MHR than that which is average for their age.

To determine your maximum heart rate you could use the following which combines the Miller formula with the research from Londeree and Moeschberger.

Use the Miller formula of MHR=217 - (0.85 × age) to calculate MHR
Subtract 3 beats for elite athletes under 30
Add 2 beats for 50 year old elite athletes
Add 4 beats for 55+ year old elite athletes
Use this MHR value for running training
Subtract 3 beats for rowing training
Subtract 5 beats for bicycle training

[splat]

the friggin shame here is that you didn't have insurance, the hospital would have expected you to pay the full $24K


I just don't get it.


If you don't have insurance, then you're charged MORE.


Biggest dumbass problem in our country, as far as I'm concerned.

Couldn't agree more.

[Dromond]

the friggin shame here is that you didn't have insurance, the hospital would have expected you to pay the full $24K


I just don't get it.


If you don't have insurance, then you're charged MORE.


Biggest dumbass problem in our country, as far as I'm concerned.

AAAGGH so true. My insurance didn't cover about $11,000 of of a bill from a ski accident so the hospital expects me to pay that totally superfluous $11,000. (i.e. they already got payed $71K)

What BS. The system needs a serious overhaul.

[Mcwop]

Couldn't agree more.

Get with the program Splat. Raise the list price of Bros to $5,000, then sell em for $1,000. That is 80% off!

[Spats]

the friggin shame here is that you didn't have insurance, the hospital would have expected you to pay the full $24K I just don't get it. If you don't have insurance, then you're charged MORE. Biggest dumbass problem in our country, as far as I'm concerned.

Our "health care" system is completely broken.

If you have no job and no money, you can just waltz into the ER at any time, even if you've got something trivial like an ingrown toenail, and laugh at the bill. This is because in America the ER has to treat everyone, regardless of their ability to pay.

If you have a job with good insurance, you will get treated, but you will get dicked around endlessly by your insurance when they retroactively refuse to cover procedures. This is the best you can hope for.

If you are a doctor or run a hospital, you are screwed, because you can charge whatever you want for procedures, but the insurance company or Medicare decides what they will actually pay you. The insurance companies lower this number every year -- because they can. They will also deny payment for totallly normal procedures. I was denied coverage for $10K worth of MRIs and neurologist treatment when I broke my neck. In the end, the hospital ate $10K because insurance refused to admit that I needed MRIs, a neck brace, and followup treatment after breaking my neck.

If you are a hospital, you are screwed, because your ER has to treat everyone regardless of ability to pay, and every poor and jobless person comes straight to the ER since it's the only way to get free health care in this country.

If you have a job but no insurance, you are totally screwed. Doctors and hospitals are being squeezed from both ends: insurance paying less and less, and more and more poor and uninsured are not paying at all. So they put the hurt on the few people they think they can actually collect money from.

So: if you have no insurance, but you have a job or any savings at all, you get to pay for the seven or eight crackheads off the street that came in before you, plus the four or five people with insurance behind you whose insurance company decided that MRIs should cost 30% less this year.

The fundamental problem is that we have guaranteed health care -- but only in the ER, which is the most expensive and least efficient way to treat the overwhelming majority of health problems in this country.

Republicans scream in panic any time anyone mentions guaranteed health care ("socialized medicine"). Well, guess what? WE ALREADY HAVE SOCIALIZED MEDICINE. But we have the most wasteful, most expensive, and least efficient system of socialized medicine in the world, and the working poor and middle class pay the most for it.

We can't afford to guarantee access to the ER, but not to basic preventative care and treatment. I mean that in a strictly monetary sense, not a moral sense -- the current system costs us too much money.

[irul&ublo]

Wait till you get a bill for one day in the ICU.

[Dromond]

The fundamental problem is that we have guaranteed health care -- but only in the ER, which is the most expensive and least efficient way to treat the overwhelming majority of health problems in this country.

Republicans scream in panic any time anyone mentions guaranteed health care ("socialized medicine"). Well, guess what? WE ALREADY HAVE SOCIALIZED MEDICINE. But we have the most wasteful, most expensive, and least efficient system of socialized medicine in the world, and the working poor and middle class pay the most for it.

We can't afford to guarantee access to the ER, but not to basic preventative care and treatment. I mean that in a strictly monetary sense, not a moral sense -- the current system costs us too much money.

Spats for president. The truth is so blindingly obvious it's hurts.

[lemon boy]

the current system costs us too much money.

mmmmmmmmmmm
Free Lunch
ggguruuuuuuurrrrrrr

[Telenater]

Wait till you get a bill for one day in the ICU.

Or 3.....

[Andy_B]

Just curious. How old are you? That's what sucks about getting old.. I'm 51 and the max I can get is 185 (pretty good for a geezer)

The formula is pretty accurate:


Calculation of Maximum Heart Rate
The easiest and best known method to calculate your maximum heart rate (MHR) is to use the formula MHR=220 - Age. A paper by Londeree and Moeschberger (1982) from the University of Missouri-Columbia indicates that the MHR varies mostly with age, but the relationship is not a linear one. They suggest an alternative formula of MHR=206.3 - (0.711 × Age). Similarly, Miller et al (1993) from Indiana University propose the formula MHR=217 - (0.85 × Age) as a suitable formula to calculate MHR.

Londeree and Moeschberger also looked at other variables to see if they had any effect on the MHR. They found that neither sex nor race makes any difference but they did find that the MHR was affected by the activity and levels of fitness.

Studies have shown that MHR on a treadmill is consistently 5 to 6 beats higher than on a bicycle ergometer and 2 to 3 beats higher on a rowing ergometer. Heart rates while swimming are significantly lower, around 14 bpm, than for treadmill running. Elite endurance athletes and moderately trained individuals will have a MHR 3 or 4 beats slower than a sedentary individual. It was also found that well trained over 50s are likely to have a higher MHR than that which is average for their age.

To determine your maximum heart rate you could use the following which combines the Miller formula with the research from Londeree and Moeschberger.

Use the Miller formula of MHR=217 - (0.85 × age) to calculate MHR
Subtract 3 beats for elite athletes under 30
Add 2 beats for 50 year old elite athletes
Add 4 beats for 55+ year old elite athletes
Use this MHR value for running training
Subtract 3 beats for rowing training
Subtract 5 beats for bicycle training

Im 26.

Edit: 185 by the numbers...

[Andy_B]

the friggin shame here is that you didn't have insurance, the hospital would have expected you to pay the full $24K


I just don't get it.


If you don't have insurance, then you're charged MORE.


Biggest dumbass problem in our country, as far as I'm concerned.

When ever I go in to a hospital or doctor's office, I always request an itemized bill. The shit they double bill you for is nuts. Once you point it to them the bill drops by half.

[teledave]

the current system costs us too much money.

I would have to disagree. The current system is very expensive. The current system of health care in this country is also the best in the world. Yes, there is an extremely high incentive built into the system to be involved in a good group health insurance plan or to be broke but nothing in between. Could the system be tweaked so as too work better? Yes. Do I have the answer? No. I would much rather be facing a severe physical condition (whether infectuous, trauma, or other) in the good ole USA than anywhere else in the world. Technology (in conjunction with well trained personnel) saves lives, and it also costs a lot of money.

[Squatch]

Just curious. How old are you? That's what sucks about getting old.. I'm 51 and the max I can get is 185 (pretty good for a geezer)

The formula is pretty accurate:


Calculation of Maximum Heart Rate
The easiest and best known method to calculate your maximum heart rate (MHR) is to use the formula MHR=220 - Age. A paper by Londeree and Moeschberger (1982) from the University of Missouri-Columbia indicates that the MHR varies mostly with age, but the relationship is not a linear one. They suggest an alternative formula of MHR=206.3 - (0.711 × Age). Similarly, Miller et al (1993) from Indiana University propose the formula MHR=217 - (0.85 × Age) as a suitable formula to calculate MHR.

Londeree and Moeschberger also looked at other variables to see if they had any effect on the MHR. They found that neither sex nor race makes any difference but they did find that the MHR was affected by the activity and levels of fitness.

Studies have shown that MHR on a treadmill is consistently 5 to 6 beats higher than on a bicycle ergometer and 2 to 3 beats higher on a rowing ergometer. Heart rates while swimming are significantly lower, around 14 bpm, than for treadmill running. Elite endurance athletes and moderately trained individuals will have a MHR 3 or 4 beats slower than a sedentary individual. It was also found that well trained over 50s are likely to have a higher MHR than that which is average for their age.

To determine your maximum heart rate you could use the following which combines the Miller formula with the research from Londeree and Moeschberger.

Use the Miller formula of MHR=217 - (0.85 × age) to calculate MHR
Subtract 3 beats for elite athletes under 30
Add 2 beats for 50 year old elite athletes
Add 4 beats for 55+ year old elite athletes
Use this MHR value for running training
Subtract 3 beats for rowing training
Subtract 5 beats for bicycle training

I'm pretty sure I've hit 210 or 220 while swimming.

[4matic]

I would have to disagree. The current system is very expensive. The current system of health care in this country is also the best in the world. Yes, there is an extremely high incentive built into the system to be involved in a good group health insurance plan or to be broke but nothing in between. Could the system be tweaked so as too work better? Yes. Do I have the answer? No. I would much rather be facing a severe physical condition (whether infectuous, trauma, or other) in the good ole USA than anywhere else in the world. Technology (in conjunction with well trained personnel) saves lives, and it also costs a lot of money.

An interesting note to this is that Doctor salaries are down. Considering the training, education, and expertise of our Physicians they are way underpaid.

Also interesting is that Doctors can make more money working in podunk than they can in a major city. The competition to work in a city like San Francisco is fierce and many will accept much less money to be in a cultural center.

[4matic]

I'm pretty sure I've hit 210 or 220 while swimming.

Yep.. I'm a swimmer. I used to peg at 220+. No more.. 185 is redline for me. I still train with a bunch of elite juniors and we do a set where if you don't hit 200 you get less rest each one..I don't get any rest!

[GoldMember]

Not to dis Mofro but what happened is a huge part of the problem. 6 weeks with intermittent discomfort/ignored pain and no physical for 15 years. If this was going on for 6 weeks, why not get a doctor referral (most will schedule you in within a day if the heart is suspect) and go to the doctor? By using the ER as the first line of treatment, the expense is exorbitant compared to traditional care. The insurance will pay in accordance with the PPO contract with the providers for the services which is still way higher than traditional care. The added cost for those services then get blended into the experience rating for the group and rates for everyone in the group go up accordingly. We as users of the health care system have to take responsibility for understanding and utilizing it in the most efficient manner too. To blame doctors, insurance companies, and lawyers for all that's wrong without looking in the mirror is disingenuous.

And Mofro, I'm glad you're healthy and okay. This issue is pervasive throughout the system and not at all untypical. I picked on you because you put this post up and, even at your level of apparent capability, it demonstrates a huge part of why our costs are escalating so rapidly. Peace.