K Chute Slide

**cmsummit** · 04-07-2005, 01:21 AM

This is tough. Very tough.
I get knots in my stomach thinking about it.

I was one of the three skiers involved in the Sky Chutes avalanche today. My brother(non-maggot) and his buddy(non-maggot) were the other two. Both of them are Copper Mtn ski school instructors and my brother is director of the freestyle skiing program.

I guess I need to start with the one major error we made in our decision making and that was we started our decent way too late(1pm) under todays' warm temperatures. I should have known better. We know better. FUCK!

We got to the top(W-NW aspect) of the lookers' right side of the K Chute after picking our way down through the thin snowpack above. We stopped and perched ourselves about 150' vertical feet above treeline at the top of a 25-28 deg. slope. Our plan was to safety ski this slope one at a time down to treeline and stop to dig a pit and assess the danger. The slope steepened up to 35-38deg at treeline and we figured that it would be best to perform the pit tests just above here on a "representable" slope. The snow up top was slight windbuff/ soft powder about 6"-8" deep and we thought that this would be our main layer of concern, the new snow sliding on the old snow. Shit, were we wrong.

My brother started off first from our perch, made 6-8 turns, started to slow down as he approached the treeline and this is where the slope slid. We saw it release from above and watched in horror. The slope slid and left my brother basically standing on bare ground, still in his skis, about 20' below the fracture. The avalanche had taken off through the trees without him and left him at the top. He says that just after he realized the slope was sliding the blocks and chunks were gone. He was extemely lucky and considers himself so. The hard slab release left a crown 2'-4' deep and roughly 200' across and slid all the way to the ground/depth hoar. It ran a grand total of 2000' releasing all the wet snow as it moved down. It was still moving slowly down in the K for a about a minute after being triggered.

We just stood there in shock/amazement, extremely thankful that we were all okay. One of the first thing that crossed my mind was to call Copper Mtn. ski patrol and notify them that we triggered a slide and everyone was okay. So, we called ski patrol, spoke with Toby, notified him that every one was okay, and he told us to call him back when we were out.

Scared that the snowpack around us could going to slide, we skied the avalanche path down 400' vert. to a point where we could traverse out of the path to skiers' left and be safe in dense trees. We certainly wanted to get out of the slide path as soon as possible as there was a considerable amount of hanging snow above the fracture.

We were skiing the thick growth between the K and Y chutes about 400' feet above the valley floor when we stopped and called Toby at Copper Mtn. ski patrol for a SECOND time to tell him we were out and okay.(I know, we weren't out, but were close and still okay. This second call was 20-25 minutes after the first call. My brother had just hung up the cell phone when we heard the sirens. Why was SAR here? We called it in and notified the necessary authorities that everyone that was okay? What was up? Why dispatch SAR when everyone in your party is fine? We soon realized that the sirens we heard were the cops and we were getting arrested for ducking the Peak 8 rope. This is where my brother and his buddy started freaking out with fears of being fired from Copper Mtn. My brother had worked hard to earn freestyle skiing director and didn't want to lose it.

We sat there for about 15 minutes with my brother and his buddy comptemplating what to do, when the helicopter showed up. What? A heli? But we were fine? We made the calls? What the fuck is going on? I am really regretful to admit it, but we sat there under the evergreens for probably an hour with my brother and his buddy talking over their options. I just want to say that crazy thoughts cross your mind when you're in panic mode. We were still in disbelief that the heli was flying over? For what reason? After discussion, cohersion from myself, and a few heli flyovers, I finally got my brother and his buddy to come to terms with the fact that we were getting arrested, they were probably going to lose their jobs and there was no way around it. We skied down shamefully to meet the hoards of people and face the music, whatever it may be.

While we were up there we had no idea that the Y Chute had also slid and this is the real reason why SAR was there. They thought that since when we were traversing left out of the K chute, we could have skied over into the Y and then triggered that to slide. They had no tracks coming out and this is what concerned them, even if we were safe skiing the trees like we had told ski patrol. Had I known that the Y chute had also slid, I would have called them back a third time to notify them that we were still okay. I still believe that the Y chute slid as a sympathetic slide to the K before my second call to ski patrol.

It was crazy, fucked up day for us and I just want to apologize to SAR for prolonging the search by not coming off the mountain sooner. I TRUELY REGRET THE FACT THAT I DIDN'T CALL A THIRD TIME TO SAY WE WERE STILL OKAY. WE ARE TRUELY SORRY FOR ANY TROUBLE WE MAY HAVE CAUSED AND FEEL AWFUL. WE FUCKED UP.

**ill-advised strategy** · 04-07-2005, 01:32 AM

IMO police should not be arresting people for skiing.

**skiguide** · 04-07-2005, 01:57 AM

You know what mang, thank god you, your bro & his bro are A-Ok.

We were all worried.

So, you made a few bad decisions. You're well aware of that, I'm not gonna beat into you for that at all. I am not personally in the position to do so.

But, you also made the right call to be responsible & notify SAR that you 3 were fine. Props for that, and call #2. sure, #3 would have been helpful, but under the circumstances, I can see how ALL of you would be freaked out beyond reason that you were under the threat of arrest - a bit odd, but nonetheless, I can't imagine how you'd be feeling at that point.

I definitely can tell you guys are sincerely sorry for any trouble you caused, but that's SAR's job in summit co, and free of charge (as mentioned in another thread) -

LIVE and learn.

**ulty_guy** · 04-07-2005, 02:47 AM

very glad to hear you're ok. thanks for sharing the experience, and your honesty.

**subtle plague** · 04-07-2005, 03:43 AM

the rescue thing can be pretty bad even if it is not illegal as in your case.
in a german board someone reported that he had to pay to be flown out only because he stayed with the avalanche victim(edit:after he had dug him out of course

) until rescue came and it had gotten dark.
( the buried victim was in the Alpine club and did not have to pay himself but the alpine club would not pay for the rescue of the friend.

)

**Hayduke** · 04-07-2005, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by YetiMan

IMO police should not be arresting people for skiing.

Ditto

678910

**shera** · 04-07-2005, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by Hayduke

Ditto

678910

Third that.

Thanks for telling what happened. We gotta get up in the morning and get these runs bagged before they get wet. So glad you guys are ok. I hope your brother and his friend don't get fired...

FYI, there's a gate at Breck you can use instead of ducking a rope.

edit - and everyone's got their SAR card, right! Thanks for mine, Summit!

**Xover** · 04-07-2005, 06:34 AM

Glad you guys are ok; scary moments I'm sure right after as well as for a while after.

I'm sure you are and have gone over many things in your mind of what else you could have done and not to "rub salt into an open wound" but just a suggestion would be to carry along a small diameter rope to belay with to go dig pit on "suspect" slope. Doesn't have to be that big and will be of minimal weight.

Again, glad you're all a-ok and can chaulk this up to a good lesson learned from Ma Nature.

**edg** · 04-07-2005, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Xover

I'm sure you are and have gone over many things in your mind of what else you could have done and not to "rub salt into an open wound" but just a suggestion would be to carry along a small diameter rope to belay with to go dig pit on "suspect" slope. Doesn't have to be that big and will be of minimal weight.

Beal make a nice Randonée rope which would proabably be ideal for this: 30m rope @ 40g/m, takes minimal dynamic loading (enough for, say, falling/sliding in a crevasse, but not enough for a freefall) and is a very tight package. Picked one up for about £15 in Chamonix, think they're around $60 over there.

edg

**Foggy_Goggles** · 04-07-2005, 07:25 AM

Glad everyone is OK.

CAIC's take [/don't shoot the messanger]

Three off-area skiers from Breckenridge had quite and afternoon when they
triggered 2 sizable slabs on the backside of Peak 6 in the Tenmile Range
(immediately east of Copper Mtn) on Wednesday. A full rescue effort was
undertaken because their tracks were spotted going into an avalanche but no
tracks were seen exiting the debris. They did call rescuers to say they were
okay, but didn't tell the real story so the search effort continued,
needlessly. It is a great courtesy and a huge help to rescuers when folks
call to report all is okay. But then don't hang up. Rescuers need to be able
to confirm tracks out. Answers to a few simple questions would have made the
lives of everyone involved much easier and made for a much shorter
afternoon.

**tuffy109** · 04-07-2005, 07:26 AM

way to not die

**killclimbz** · 04-07-2005, 09:47 AM

At least you guys are ok and not another fatality statistic. That sucks they could lose their jobs. Hopefully they get a big talking too from management and are allowed to keep their jobs.

**gonzo** · 04-07-2005, 09:58 AM

glad everyone is OK.

did you get arrested and did they get fired? i hope not!

**cmsummit** · 04-07-2005, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by gonzo

glad everyone is OK.

did you get arrested and did they get fired? i hope not!

Ended up that we did not get arrested. Summit County Sherriff's Dept. issued us written citations for breaking the National Safety Skier Code. As for my brother and his buddy, not sure what has happened to them and their jobs yet. They were meeting with management today to discuss the situation.

So glad we didn't get arrested.
SO FUCKING GLAD THAT EVERYONE IS OKAY. LIVE AND LEARN.

**EastCoastSkiBum** · 04-07-2005, 10:21 AM

? for ya...

Did they ask for a contact number or any information when you reported the slide the 1st or 2nd time? Wouldn't it have been simple for them to take down your cell #? (assuming you still had service once in the trees)

Glad your all safe and goodluck w/ legal/work issues.

**SLSki** · 04-07-2005, 10:21 AM

Wow, Fox News (the network) is going to do a story on the slide.

**iskibc** · 04-07-2005, 10:32 AM

Good to see everyone involved is alright. That is most important. Why would they get fired from copper mountain if the mountain or their jobs had nothing to do with this incident? They weren't working, the slide was not on Copper Mountain's terrain, and they did not cross any ropes or break any rules pertaining to Copper Mountain. Just curious.

Also, why didn't you dig your pit at the first staging zone? Yes, it's 25-28 degrees, but it will still give you an idea of what is lying underneath the top layer. You may have found the smoking gun right there and revisited your plan.

**Mountain Junkie** · 04-07-2005, 10:36 AM

Glad to hear everyone is okay. Sounds like things are getting blown way out of proportion. I guess that's the price you pay skiing such a visible chute.

**cmsummit** · 04-07-2005, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by iskibc

Good to see everyone involved is alright. That is most important. Why would they get fired from copper mountain if the mountain or their jobs had nothing to do with this incident? They weren't working, the slide was not on Copper Mountain's terrain, and they did not cross any ropes or break any rules pertaining to Copper Mountain. Just curious.

That is what I thought too, but we broke the law by not adhering to the National Safety Skiers Act and they were extremely unsure of how managment would handle it. It was all over the news that two Copper Mtn. employees broke the law and caused a massive slide. Not the type of press Copper Mtn. wants. I'll find out later today what has happened to them.

Originally Posted by iskibc

Also, why didn't you dig your pit at the first staging zone? Yes, it's 25-28 degrees, but it will still give you an idea of what is lying underneath the top layer. You may have found the smoking gun right there and revisited your plan.

The snowpack was so thin up there on that mellow slope that I didn't feel we were going to get a true representation of what the snowpack was like in the trees below. My brother skied over several rocks that were just below snow surface on that slope as he was making his way down to the trees. In hindsight, we could have dug a small pit on the mellow slope. You can't ever be too safe.

**Ireallyliketoski2** · 04-07-2005, 10:56 AM

Glad to hear everyone is ok, and a little patience to all the maggots out there, we're still in the transitional period before consolidation.

**LaramieSkiBum** · 04-07-2005, 10:57 AM

Glad your all ok man

could someone please clarify the law that was broken here? Am I correct that ducking a rope was the extent of it?

edit: ok i understand this now - but why in the world is their no gates on NFS land?

**cmsummit** · 04-07-2005, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by LaramieSkiBum

could someone please clarify the law that was broken here? Am I correct that ducking a rope was the extent of it?

Yes, ducking the rope was the extent of it.

What else bothers me is the fact that my brother and I were planning on skinning up Peak 6 to access the K. Turns out that he hooked up with one of his buddies at the last minute, who doesn't have skins/Freerides, and we ended up choosing to hike Peak 8 and duck the rope so that his friend(who does have bc experience) could join us. Should've still skinned up and told him we would meet him at the top.