Dynafit TLT 5 Boot

[AweShuksan]

It took three months but they finally are in my hands. I'm really liking these boots so far. The walk mode is just incredible on or off skiis. It redefines what a ski boot is. Certainly not the most powerful boot out there but what they lack in power they gain in feel, finesse and style. I think such a boot will make better skiers. I'm especially liking their streamlined shape and narrowness - it really makes a difference when skiing heavy powder (there is less drag).

Whoever created these beauties has propelled ski boot technology to another level. The design and operation is top notch - I have only identified one minor design flaw. The wire bail on the lowest buckle is unshrouded past the point where the wire leaves the plastic retainer. The issue is minor but it causes the removeable tongue to catch on the lip between the wire bail and it's plastic retainer (when inserting the tongue). If the retainer had been extended another couple cm's this would have been avoided and it would add an insignificant amount of weight (probably about a gram). Other than that small flaw the operation of the boot is simplicity itself.

As for fit, initially they squeezed my small toe in painful manner (even though I have narrow feet). The boot-fitter thermoformed the liner and manually worked this area to create more room but the problem remained. I was able to completely solve the problem by using a Superfeet insole (green) and trimming the heel cups in such a way that my heels were positioned more to the outside of the shell. Now they are very comfy - I could almost live in them. These boots are good for dancing, running up and down stairs two at a time, crossing rivers on fallen logs, driving cars and snowmobiles and getting away from the law.

I've noticed the upper buckle lever has a small hole in the end of it as if it was meant to tie a small leash of some sort to it. Anyone know what this is for? I plan to tie a small rubber donut to it that is sized to fit over the cuff locking pin on the lever which will allow the cuff to be tightened around the calf without allowing it to lock it into ski mode. This special mode is good for skating, side-stepping, herring-boning and any other manuever that does not require forward pressure on the cuff but that does benefit from lateral stiffness. The hole on the end of the lever makes me think this was it's intended purpose. When in ski mode the rubber donut will just dangle on it's very short leash.

I would like to see Dynafit offer the removeable tongue with different angles and stiffness. I'm thinking a slightly stiffer tongue with less forward lean molded into it would allow the boot to be skied in walk mode while still allowing mild but progressive tip pressure to be applied as the shin was pressured to help initiate turns. The advantage is that it would allow a more flexible and fluid skiing style with more independent use of each ski than is possible in locked ski mode.

I am really glad Dynafit has thought outside the box to develop such a useful and innovative boot.

[Patches]

The issue is minor but it causes the removeable tongue to catch on the lip between the wire bail and it's plastic retainer (when inserting the tongue). If the retainer had been extended another couple cm's this would have been avoided and it would add an insignificant amount of weight (probably about a gram).

Agree with this 100%.^^^

I plan to tie a small rubber donut to it that is sized to fit over the cuff locking pin on the lever which will allow the cuff to be tightened around the calf without allowing it to lock it into ski mode.

Definitely like to see pictures of this once you do it^^^

[Federico]

Thanks! glad to hear you liked the boots! ;-)
The hole on the buckle was born to attach a little leash to help opening the buckle is closed super tight but it was not really necessary so we canceled it.
The idea you thought, if I well understood it, to fix something to keep the buckle closed/cuff tight without alowing the pin to enter and lock into ski mode was thought from the beginning but with a different solution as you wrote.... the idea was born for climbing on steep couloirs or ice falls without having the buckle lever exposed on the outside... but it was a TOO niche kind of thing so we also canceled that feature ;-)

It took three months but they finally are in my hands. I'm really liking these boots so far. The walk mode is just incredible on or off skiis. It redefines what a ski boot is. Certainly not the most powerful boot out there but what they lack in power they gain in feel, finesse and style. I think such a boot will make better skiers. I'm especially liking their streamlined shape and narrowness - it really makes a difference when skiing heavy powder (there is less drag).

Whoever created these beauties has propelled ski boot technology to another level. The design and operation is top notch - I have only identified one minor design flaw. The wire bail on the lowest buckle is unshrouded past the point where the wire leaves the plastic retainer. The issue is minor but it causes the removeable tongue to catch on the lip between the wire bail and it's plastic retainer (when inserting the tongue). If the retainer had been extended another couple cm's this would have been avoided and it would add an insignificant amount of weight (probably about a gram). Other than that small flaw the operation of the boot is simplicity itself.

As for fit, initially they squeezed my small toe in painful manner (even though I have narrow feet). The boot-fitter thermoformed the liner and manually worked this area to create more room but the problem remained. I was able to completely solve the problem by using a Superfeet insole (green) and trimming the heel cups in such a way that my heels were positioned more to the outside of the shell. Now they are very comfy - I could almost live in them. These boots are good for dancing, running up and down stairs two at a time, crossing rivers on fallen logs, driving cars and snowmobiles and getting away from the law.

I've noticed the upper buckle lever has a small hole in the end of it as if it was meant to tie a small leash of some sort to it. Anyone know what this is for? I plan to tie a small rubber donut to it that is sized to fit over the cuff locking pin on the lever which will allow the cuff to be tightened around the calf without allowing it to lock it into ski mode. This special mode is good for skating, side-stepping, herring-boning and any other manuever that does not require forward pressure on the cuff but that does benefit from lateral stiffness. The hole on the end of the lever makes me think this was it's intended purpose. When in ski mode the rubber donut will just dangle on it's very short leash.

I would like to see Dynafit offer the removeable tongue with different angles and stiffness. I'm thinking a slightly stiffer tongue with less forward lean molded into it would allow the boot to be skied in walk mode while still allowing mild but progressive tip pressure to be applied as the shin was pressured to help initiate turns. The advantage is that it would allow a more flexible and fluid skiing style with more independent use of each ski than is possible in locked ski mode.

I am really glad Dynafit has thought outside the box to develop such a useful and innovative boot.

[harpo-the-skier]

I skied my TLT5P/ProTour combo at the resort today to get a feel for how they ski. I found they had too much forward lean and my quads were getting toasted to soon. I put in some Eliminators (foam the shape of the tongue of a liner that you velcro to the inside of the tongue of the liner; it has many uses including preventing shinbang) and that put more foam between my shin and the tongue of the boot, effectively reducing the foward lean angle. After that they skied much better and I was able to engage the front of the boot and ski while remaining more upright. Only problem is that the Eliminator reduced some of the foward flex in tour mode, but I will play with how far down into the boot the Eliminator goes and see if that improves foward flex.

Overall, I would definetly reccomend experimenting with the Eliminator or something like it if you are having issue with the degree of foward lean in downhill mode.

Fredrico, you mentioned Dynafit was coming out with an add on gizmo for the TLT5 that would allow you to increase foward lean; will it also allow you to decrease foward lean too? I would certainly reccomend this capability.

[Federico]

Harpo, forward lean is a personal preference and really depends on how you're used to ski from your previouse boot. It also depends on the liners you are using. I'm not sure about that but it might be that the pro tour liner you placed in the shells also changed your position and forward lean to a more aggressive one.
I would recomend you to ski for 10 times the boots without any tricks to reduce the forward lean and you might get used to it. Only a suggestion, then do as you prefer.
Fixing a forward lean angle on a boot TRUST ME is a NEVER ENDING STORY!!!... you know why? because people, especially on blogs, always have to find something to complain about and everybody think he can do better ;-) ...
We've been making boots for decades with 2 forward lean position and a bunch of people where complainin it would have been better to have only one with an easy/fast operating mechanism as it's always complicate to select the right position on the snow...
Now we did one boot that for technical reasons have only one intermediate forward lean position... and there are some which feels it too forward others too backward and wants it to be adjustable...
The new "toy" I mentioned to adjust the foward lean IS ON TESTING and it might be it will never be distributed. If it will be distributed it will come from october/november It will allow to go more forward than the actual position as most of the skiers would like it more forward.
Ciao

I skied my TLT5P/ProTour combo at the resort today to get a feel for how they ski. I found they had too much forward lean and my quads were getting toasted to soon. I put in some Eliminators (foam the shape of the tongue of a liner that you velcro to the inside of the tongue of the liner; it has many uses including preventing shinbang) and that put more foam between my shin and the tongue of the boot, effectively reducing the foward lean angle. After that they skied much better and I was able to engage the front of the boot and ski while remaining more upright. Only problem is that the Eliminator reduced some of the foward flex in tour mode, but I will play with how far down into the boot the Eliminator goes and see if that improves foward flex.

Overall, I would definetly reccomend experimenting with the Eliminator or something like it if you are having issue with the degree of foward lean in downhill mode.

Fredrico, you mentioned Dynafit was coming out with an add on gizmo for the TLT5 that would allow you to increase foward lean; will it also allow you to decrease foward lean too? I would certainly reccomend this capability.

[GeezerSteve]

I tried my new TLT5 Mtn on lift-served slopes this weekend. They skied great -- amazingly lateral stiffness -- although I too initially thought the forward lean was more than I like. But after comparing the lean to my other boots and skiing a few laps, I concluded that the spoiler was impinging my calf muscles, thus throwing me forward to avoid hanging from my calves. So -- yikes -- I whacked off the spoiler on a new pair of $700 boots. That's not the first time I've taken a saw to spoilers cuz I have freakishly large calves, relatively skinny ankles (for a 240 lb. mesomorph) and a short lower leg post. Tall boots have never worked for me and I ski fine in short boots. I'll report after I try them with the new DIY low profile mod.

Re fit, 30-30.5 shell fits very similarly to my 29.5-30MP F3 shell. In DH ski mode, the forward flex is also similar to the F3, so I'm optimistic that the TLT5 Mtns are going to work great.

[Jonathan S.]

I suspect that the Booster Straps I substituted in for the original velcro straps are having a somewhat similar effect as those Eliminator things.

[harpo-the-skier]

I suspect that the Booster Straps I substituted in for the original velcro straps are having a somewhat similar effect as those Eliminator things.

JS,

Could you talk more about how the Booster Straps changed the performance of your boots, inlcuding additional weight, skiing performance, and how easy they are to tighten in the field.

[Jonathan S.]

answers are now in the form of a comment I just posted to my Logic-X review:
http://www.wildsnow.com/4181/movemen...#comment-32529

[turnfarmer]

Federico- can you please explain the changes to the womens version
coming next year. From the pic on Wildsnow it looks like the cuff is lower at the back. Is it actually lower? Or just molded different? Thicker liners?
Thanks

[Federico]

Federico- can you please explain the changes to the womens version
coming next year. From the pic on Wildsnow it looks like the cuff is lower at the back. Is it actually lower? Or just molded different? Thicker liners?
Thanks

Ciao,
the picture on wildsnow is wrong, the colour will be different and nicer.. White with green accent.. a bit more sporty.
The differences, beside design, compared wiht the men's version are mainly on the liners with a fit with a women's specific fit, reduced volume and different anatomy. The plastic mix is also a little bit different. The cuff and shell are the same as the men's version as on 99% of ski boots in the world.
Ciao

Fede

[Meathelmet]

answers are now in the form of a comment I just posted to my Logic-X review:
http://www.wildsnow.com/4181/movemen...#comment-32529

Yo jonathan,care to make a bit more detailed writeup here on tgr?
Very little info on the skis in the interwebz,and as you have skied a shitload
of other randosticks, I think you have a good overview how the Logic-x compares to the others!

Edit: I am a retahd,found the whole review...

[harpo-the-skier]

I have been using the Eliminators in both my Pro Tours and my original TLT5p liners. If you place them higher on the tonge so there is less material down low around the front of the ankle, you still get the reduced foward lean in ski mode but very little impediment to foward flex in tour mode. Cut down, the Eliminators weigh less than an ounce for the pair.

I also tried replacing the original velcro power straps with 3 layer booster straps I had lying around. According to my postal scale, the pair of boosters weighed 3 ounces more than the orginal velcro ones, and in my living room I didn't notice that much improvement to the foward flex, so I went back to the orginal straps.

[dcpnz]

Argghhh!!

I still love the way these boots tour and ski but after a few weeks I'm now having some fit issues.
I molded liners with a superfoot footbed which felt pretty good and skied and toured well for first few shorter outings. Then I did a longer tour - about 6 1/2 hrs, 5500' vertical and 19 miles and got some huge, hideously ugly blisters on my heels - (of course wasn't smart enough to stop and do something about it middday cos I thought they'd be ok - boy was I wrong).

Turns out the thicker superfeet lifted my heels up just a few extra millimeters so that my heels were impacted more by the inward curve and shape of shell. Even though I've got same or less heel lift/movement than in any other boot I've had, the combination of factors is enough to cause me a problem.

So my dilemma - I've got a good fit through the forefoot but if I go back to stock footbed or some other without the lift I then have to deal with looseness around the ankle. I don't think remolding is going to take up that volume.

Anyway - just something I'm dealing with re fit, not really a fault with the boot except possibly exacerbated by the tighter shell and thinner liner.

[harpo-the-skier]

D,

Go find the blog post Lou had last year sometime about lace up liners preventing heel movement and heel blisters. He also talked about stripping down a lace up ankle brace to fit around a liner and have the same effect. I am having a local seamstress copy the pattern of a lace up ankle brace to try to make something like that from scratch, as I got a blister in my TLT5Ps on a long tour.

Argghhh!!

I still love the way these boots tour and ski but after a few weeks I'm now having some fit issues.
I molded liners with a superfoot footbed which felt pretty good and skied and toured well for first few shorter outings. Then I did a longer tour - about 6 1/2 hrs, 5500' vertical and 19 miles and got some huge, hideously ugly blisters on my heels - (of course wasn't smart enough to stop and do something about it middday cos I thought they'd be ok - boy was I wrong).

Turns out the thicker superfeet lifted my heels up just a few extra millimeters so that my heels were impacted more by the inward curve and shape of shell. Even though I've got same or less heel lift/movement than in any other boot I've had, the combination of factors is enough to cause me a problem.

So my dilemma - I've got a good fit through the forefoot but if I go back to stock footbed or some other without the lift I then have to deal with looseness around the ankle. I don't think remolding is going to take up that volume.

Anyway - just something I'm dealing with re fit, not really a fault with the boot except possibly exacerbated by the tighter shell and thinner liner.

[Federico]

Getting blisters on long tours unfortunately is part of the game.. I'm pretty sure than more than 50% of ski montaineers have this problem.
The only way to avoid it is to fit the boots in the best possible way, a few hints:

1) NEVER use super thick footbeds!!! NEVER!. especially stock ones!. If they are custom made and the man who realize them knows what he's doing and respect the maximum thickess on the heel it's fine. If not it will be a huge problem.
The superfeet especially are not working at all on a TLT5 shell construction. The have a WAY to thick heel and also the cupped shape of the heel area move your feet a few mm forward, This for sure returns in blisters.
I would reccoment to use the standard footbed. If it's too thin and leave too much volume on the toe box take the extra white layers (on the box) cut them and stick with a good glue ony the front part under the footbeds. This will reduce the volume on the toe box without moving the heel.

2) Always keep the lower shell buckle TIGHT! .. it must be of course not painfull but tight. That buckle design is done in way that ideally you should keep the same buckle positio both for climbing and skiing. This will make sure the heel is not lifting inside.

3) Feets needs to be TRAINED and used to ski mountaineering... if you check out skiers with many years of experience which goes touring during the season more then 2 times per week and challenge always long distances never gets blisters. As I bike during summer and not run or hike my feet always loose the natural protection during the hot season and I always gets 1-2 blisters when I start to skiing. After 30-40.000 vertical meeters I never get anymore... So if you do always medium to short tour and then do a big one I would say it's pretty normal to get blisters.

4) In case of sensitive feet or beginning of the season or a particularly long tour you don't want to risk to get a blister there is a super well working home made prevention remedy... Realize a heel protection with a special sport taping tape for example: http://www.google.it/imgres?imgurl=h...1t:429,r:1,s:0
It's important to buy a very high quality one with a super good glue, to NEVER do multiple layers, just one to protect the heel and the sides of the heel. With this correctly placed is virtually impossible to get blisters.

this tape is also great for going on touring if you get a blister.. place a compeed to protect the blister and on top this tape.

Hope this helped.
Ciao

Argghhh!!

I still love the way these boots tour and ski but after a few weeks I'm now having some fit issues.
I molded liners with a superfoot footbed which felt pretty good and skied and toured well for first few shorter outings. Then I did a longer tour - about 6 1/2 hrs, 5500' vertical and 19 miles and got some huge, hideously ugly blisters on my heels - (of course wasn't smart enough to stop and do something about it middday cos I thought they'd be ok - boy was I wrong).

Turns out the thicker superfeet lifted my heels up just a few extra millimeters so that my heels were impacted more by the inward curve and shape of shell. Even though I've got same or less heel lift/movement than in any other boot I've had, the combination of factors is enough to cause me a problem.

So my dilemma - I've got a good fit through the forefoot but if I go back to stock footbed or some other without the lift I then have to deal with looseness around the ankle. I don't think remolding is going to take up that volume.

Anyway - just something I'm dealing with re fit, not really a fault with the boot except possibly exacerbated by the tighter shell and thinner liner.

[harpo-the-skier]

I use a custom Superfoot footbed that has cork behind the forefoot. Haven't had any issue with heel blisters, just a small on the inside of my instep after traversing all day on one side. I used to tape to prevent blisters but it gets to be a pain to do every time you go out. I have physical therapy tape (its pink, I forget the brand name) in my blister 1st aid kit that has the best glue I have seen and is also durable.

[GeezerSteve]

Good advice, Federico. Also, VB socks help prevent blisters, and also keep your liners dry and lasting longer

[dcpnz]

Some good points Federico

I agree that superfeet are not going to work for me in these boots -
I'm sure there's others using them successfully but for me the extra lift is a problem - hadn't realized it more forward too.

I love that Leukotape that you linked to - best glue on a sports tape I've found - used it for many years but for some reason its become more difficult to find now.

The TLT5 is the first boot I have toured in with tight forefoot buckles - does exactly as you say in holding heel down - in any other boot I've I felt I needed/wanted it loose to get range of motion but that is the genius of the TLT5

[AweShuksan]

The superfeet especially are not working at all on a TLT5 shell construction. The have a WAY to thick heel and also the cupped shape of the heel area move your feet a few mm forward, This for sure returns in blisters.

I am using the Green Superfeet footbed in the TLT5 successfully (but it needed modification). I have very low volume and narrow size US 13 feet. With the footbed Dynafit included AND the included white layer there was still too much room AND my foot was pushed forward cramming my small toes into the side/front of the shell. There was also pressure on the inside of my foot just forward of my inner ankle bone against the shell. Very uncomfortable and no amount of thermoforming or manually working the liner fixed it. A green size 12-13 Superfeet footbed improved the situation but it was pressuring under my foot just forward of the heel. Switching to a size 13-15 Superfeet solved that problem (this moves the arch support forward). There was still a little pressure on my little toes and the innerside of the foot but both issues were solved by trimming away the top edge of the heel cup from the outside of the heel around to the rear center of the heel cup. This rotated my foot in the shell and solved all issues. It also helps keep the heel back in the heel cup. Now very comfy. It is also important when trimming the forward section of the Superfeet liner to be aware that one may need to remove more width from one side than the other to encourage the foot to stay centered in the shell. Do not assume that because the toe area is thin and flat that it does not matter. Where you trim affects the angle of the heel cup/arch support.

Every foot is different but this is what worked for me. I think most fitment problems are really just a matter of getting the foot to stay centered in the shell.

I would reccoment to use the standard footbed. If it's too thin and leave too much volume on the toe box take the extra white layers (on the box) cut them and stick with a good glue ony the front part under the footbeds. This will reduce the volume on the toe box without moving the heel.

I think I still need to take up a little room in the forefoot area for maximum downhill performance. I want to use the included flat white layer (just the front portion). Is your recommendation to glue it to the underside of the footbed? Should I use contact cement?

2) Always keep the lower shell buckle TIGHT! .. it must be of course not painfull but tight. That buckle design is done in way that ideally you should keep the same buckle positio both for climbing and skiing. This will make sure the heel is not lifting inside.

Very true! I can crank it down really tightly without comfort issues (climbing or skiing).

I really love these boots!

[SouthCentralShralper]

+1 for the TLT 5s!!!
Skied my TLT 5 mountains today for the first time:
Boot top to knee deep, blown in pow in tight 40-50* couloir, skiing DPS W105s.
Performed flawlessly.

[mikebrom]

Mine are on the way! After skiing the maestrale and titan all winter, I'm excited for a little comparison!

Has anyone considered/experimented with modifying the lower buckle?

I haven't skied these yet, but I'm inspired by the Hoji-titan and could see a few of those mods working well on the TLT5's.

[GeezerSteve]

Why modify the lower buckle? I wrapped some electrical tape around the cable grab to stop it from falling off, but I wouldn't call that a mod.

[dcpnz]

Whats wrong with the lower buckle that needs a mod?

I've had no issues with mine - I just keep it fairly tight for skin and leave it alone for ski.
I've had no issues with it popping open even when booting. Only time it is even remotely slightly problematic is coming out of slot when loosening to insert tongues - but I am generally skiing without tongues anyway so I don't even touch it when transitioning.

[gregL]

Nothing wrong with the lower buckle except, as AweShuksan mentions, the tongue catching on it sometimes, but that's a very minor issue.