Review: 09 4frnt EHP 193

**iscariot** · 12-27-2008, 12:00 PM

09 4frnt EHP 193 REVIEW
Background:
5'11" 185# 33 years old (26 years skiing)
X-Racer, X-Coach.
Aggressive skier in all conditions and in all terrain.
When I ski I look for air into powder, if there is no air I look for powder, if there is no powder I look for air, if there is no air or powder I go fast and/or jib.
My skiing style is fast and poppy/playful and agressive. I like turning natural features into stuff to play on.

Current quiver:
180 Rossi Scratch (rock ski/park ski)
179 Seth (everyday ripper)
179 AK Enemy (AT setup with FR+)
189 Hellbent (floating, hucking, switch-jibbery)
193 EHP (big-mountain fast-skiing, hucking, open-bowl big-turns; basically a big pow ski with XXL type properties)

Boots: Full Tilt w/ 4 flex tongues (used in this review)
also have Lange Freeride 120's

Site and Situation:
Revelstoke Mountain Resort
F'ing cold, most of the mountain skied out with very little snow BUT they opened the new Ripper chair and it was boot top to knee deep budda.
Conditions: Hard pack, ice, knee deep pow.

Review:
09 4frnt EHP 193 mounted on the line with Rossi Free 8-15 din [the skis are a 193 but are a few cm's shorter than my 189 Hellbent] They have an even tip to tail and mid stiff flex; surprisingly light.

Definitely a pow ski. It took me about 3 runs to figure out how to ski them. Really stable under foot. I pushed the speed limit and got zero tip flutter but these are not made for the hardpack. The 60m turning radius sort of makes throwing them out to the side and waiting for them to rail around a folly (when compared to my Seths). If you do that you will fall waiting for them to come around. The hardpack turns were more akin to smear turns with the downhill leg extended and the uphilll ski very bent and with the uphill boot very forward of the downhill boot. Think about standing on your skis on a very steep face in a stopped position; holding on before you drop in. Now assume this position while turning mellow blue runs. On the hardpack the skis are very damp...like 2x4 damp with no energy return from the (pseudo pin)tail into the next turn. This type of riding is not what the skis were designed for (just watch a Hoji segment in any ski movie).

Powder was a complete revelation. You could use a regular stance. Floated in the smallest depths. Ski off the bottom in single digit cm pow. The zero camber (the tips of these skis reverse camber quickly in the slightest pow which surprised me considering the flex of the skis) and early rise tip make these things missiles in pow. You can straightline, carve, and slarve. I was delightedly relieved that all of the things these ski would not do on hard pack i.e. give back energy, playful, turn fast etc... were all happening in the pow. I got caught off guard how much they bounced and gave back energy in the pow. Super stable and damp but at the same time playfull...don't ask me how. I got 2 completely unexpected face shots, given the snow conditions/depth. I didn't have the opportunity to get any big air or hucks (taking it easy on a recently separated shoulder). They like to go fast too, no discernible speed limit. You have to be on top of these or they will ski you. Channel your inner Hoji. Busts crud and chop, likes the steeps.

This ski is a big-fast steep-seeking powder-specific tool.

Downfalls:
Turning on groomers, but who needs that anyway.

Conclusion:
A quiver ski. If you want to ski big open bowls etc... and want to rip the mountain a new one... these are the skis for you. Be on these skis like a fat kid on a box of smarties because they will rip you a new one if you don't pay attention.

I can't wait to get them into some bigger, steeper, deeper lines to really open them up. I also can't wait to try them with my much stiffer Lange Freeride 120 boots. I think that will help with the control. I'm heading to Jackson so I may have a revision or update in a couple of weeks.

**gramboh** · 01-05-2009, 01:20 PM

Really nice and detailed review. I'll add a few points from the 2 days I've had on mine so far:

5'10", 203lbs, 27 y/o ex-racer (junior level, never did FIS)
2008-09 EHP 193 mounted with Marker Duke at suggested line
Haven't skied any other ski with early rise tip/reverse camber/reverse sidecut etc, these are the first 'non-conventional' powder ski I've been on
Conditions were a mix of fresh pow shin-knee deep, soft packed and hard pack groomers on the lower mountain

- Absolutely slay pow and want to ski really quickly, you move fast on these
- Totally agree with comments above about how the ski comes 'alive' in pow once it gets planing. I think it's because that is when the softer tip gets engaged and gives you a lot of energy from turn to turn
- Fun surfy/slarvy feeling when they are floating in pow, but not super pivoty, wasn't sure what to expect here (pivot/slarve wise) since I haven't been on any other non-traditional pow ski before
- Like iscariot says, these things float on anything, even a couple CM over soft packed and you can feel it, really cool
- Bit of work in tighter trees with variable snow (e.g. one turn untracked, then onto harder snow/traverse, back into untracked etc), probably would prefer the 186 here
- Surprised with them on hardpack, as iscariot says above you can't just roll on them and use the sidecut, but I found them really easy to get down the groomers on. If I put energy into them I could get decent super-G like turns or I could skid out the tails without feeling unstable, they are really damp and do not flap at all, no confidence issues
- I love the feeling of being able to kick out the tails really easily, not sure how to describe it, but I used it lot on traverses when I'd get going really fast I could just throw them sideways to dump speed and back forward with no effort, but they feel stable when going straight (what I mean is this feature doesn't compromise the stability when on edge)
- Good grip in icy entrances to chutes, no confidence issues
- Moguls are not fun, although I found I could pivot pretty easily, really I was just trying to get down without wasting energy
- Pretty damn heavy with Dukes, didn't go to the sidecountry due to sketch conditions, just played around a bit, although holding them in my hand they feel the same as my ANT's w/ metal S900's.

All in all I am happy with them, I honestly didn't think I gave up too much on hardpack performance from my other skis (07-08 Armada ANT 191) although I definitely prefer the ANTs in hardpack performance. HUGE improvement in pow performance from the ANTs, I felt like I could ski centered/aggressive on the EHPs versus having to sit back on the ANTs, the surfy feeling is awesome too as welll as the energy in pow.

Made a couple decent core shots (small) which I wasn't surprised with as cover is still thin at KH. As well as a decent side topsheet chip, not sure how (might have been gondola loading since I didn't take any falls), kind of pissed at that, not sure if it needs repair or not but I don't want to lose more in the same area and compromise the integrity of the ski.

**iscariot** · 01-09-2009, 11:43 PM

Thanks for the review gramboh.

I just got a few mores days on mine. Used my significantly stiffer Lange Freeride 120 (instead of the Full Tilts with the 4 flex tongue). I think this helped a bit.

Location:
Fernie, B.C.

Situation:
Thigh to chest deep blower pow...like movie snow.

Got some drops in, nothing too big, about 10 ft (still waiting for the shoulder to heal). These things land anything. Very stable and confidence inspiring.

These skis accelerate in pow like no other ski I've been on. These things are high-speed playful and crush it through powder and chopped powder. Damp, no vibrations, but still playful. Like gramboh says, they are slarvy/surfy, not pivoty, but you can hit the brakes if you need to by throwing them sideways. If you're fluid they rail in the pow; if you want to use a bit of body English you will have these popping you out of chest deep pow in between the each turn, before you drive the un-submarine-able tip deep into the next bottomless turn. I'm talking floating above the snow in between hip deep turns, then diving deep for more. So playful.

Really glad I got the 193 length. I wanted a big mountain ski and I think the 186 would have been too short for the type of performance attributes I was seeking.

I skied trees and basically had to plan out my line a bit farther ahead, but had no trouble navigating glades and steep treed areas. I would imagine this would change considerably if there wasn't waist deep powder to correct any mistakes I made.

I figured out the carving on groomers. Because of the 40m into 60m (tip to tail) multiple sidecut turning radius, I basically had to really drive the tip of the ski to initiate. I guess I've gotten lazy with the Seth Vicious as my daily ski. You can throw those out to the side and they piratically ski the rest of the turn for you. The EHP's were way better on groomers in the last couple of days.

In other news....

HESTRA

I picked up a pair of the Hestra Alpine Pros. The first glove I've bought in a while (I was a mitt man). People used to comment that I was taking off my mitts all the time to adjust boots, jacket, etc...

It is true what they say: The Hestra gloves, they are dexterous as fuck.

Never had to take them off to adjust the equipment, ahem.

And warm and wick moisture well too. Not sure why it took me so long to get a pair.

**Dug** · 01-10-2009, 12:52 AM

Nice reviews. I wonder how they compare to the '08.

**TheDon** · 01-10-2009, 02:16 AM

Nice reviews... what about the tails...seems like really low pro.? Could you ride them switch?

**iscariot** · 01-11-2009, 02:09 AM

The tails are pseudo pintail. They are slightly turned up, and the flat camber allows you to slide backwards while slipping into the right place to drop in. I skied them switch on a few cattracks and had no problems, but I don't think they will ski switch in pow very well.

I was actually thinking that I might like these to be more of a twin,...that is until I skied them. I have other twins to ski switch and the EHP's were too much fun skiing forward. I didn't miss having a twin tail once I go on the hill. These things are rockets and so playful that I didn't even want to ski switch. I just kept wanting to ski faster and play.

**JeffreyJim** · 01-11-2009, 08:02 PM

Here is my short review. I'll do a proper one once I get more days/conditions on them.

Me: 6'2" 200lbs

Mounted: Dukes/On the Line

Skis I've Been on: Scratch BC, Gotama, XXL, Mojo 105, Praxis Pow, DPS 138

Favorite Ski-Praxis Pow

Terrain: Anything with good snow. I like to ski bigger/more tech lines but am still coming off an injury last year (concussion) and have to be a bit more conservative normal

Intent of this ski: If all goes well, I'll be in Argentina come summer. I wanted a ski I could take down there and do everything well. Skis I looked at included the DPS 120, Lhasa Pow and the EHP. Ended up on EHP because it was far cheaper for me.

Review: I only have one day on them at Berthoud. Conditions were hardpack to windblown pow to 10"+ of normal pow. I lapped floral, (tight steep trees), 80s/90s and hells on these. Being my favorite ski of all time is Praxis Pow I wanted to see how well these smeared or allowed you to shape your own turn. With the limited rocker and semi-conventional shape, I was skeptical.

I was really suprised how well these did. I skied faster than I usually do and was able to smear turns sorta like Praxis. It wasn't totally the same but considering how much more versatile these will be on harder snow (I hope!) it was impressive.

More later but so far I'm impressed....

**OskarHolmblad** · 01-13-2009, 02:11 AM

Lots and lots of info on these skis! Well written reviews, looking forward to borrow my friends and ski them HARD!

**gramboh** · 01-13-2009, 02:29 PM

I had mine out at Powder King last weekend and skied untracked knee to thigh deep pow in the trees all day (~120cm fell in about 5 days) which had been a bit wind affected/settled. I'm liking the ski more and more. It was nice to ski them in true top to bottom untracked. Although PK is pretty low angle, there were a few decent shots and I found once I got going the ski really came alive, the tips plane nicely and the semi pin/early rise tail sits down nicely. I was skiing with a friend on 183 Gotamas who is a bit taller than me but same weight (205lbs) who was having a bit of trouble/having to sit back because of the consolidated pow and thinking he wanted more ski. Honestly though if I was skiing that terrain all the time (lower angle trees, from tight to medium spacing with a few open shots) I would have picked the 186, but I got the 193 with the intention of trips to Kicking Horse, Whistler, Revy etc and am happy I did.

Another random cool thing about the early rise/softer tip (at the extreme end of the tip) is when you are traversing and hitting whoops/bumps whatever you want to call them, you can drive the ski forward and it will absorb some of the energy so you don't get bounced and can continue to carry full speed.

I think the stack height of the Dukes makes them a bit easier on hardpack.

Oh and yeah, Hestra rules, I have a pair of Dom P pro models I've been using for 4 seasons now which are getting pretty worn but have served me really well (especially after re-balming them). I have a pair of Dexterity Glove (yes that is the name, awesome) I will be breaking in soon. Pops scored a pair of Seth pro models from Craigslist and he emailed me the other day about how happy he is with them (warmth + dexterity) saying they are the best glove he's ever used. Another friend picked up a pair of Henrik Windstedt pro models from Tramdock that ended up being too small so I bought them for the GF who always had cold hands and she is happy so far after a couple days. Hestra rocks.

**volklpowdermaniac** · 03-01-2009, 12:20 AM

Anyone skied both vintages of 193.

07-08 vs 08-09

**alma del polvo** · 10-09-2009, 06:49 PM

where is the suggested line on your 193 ehps? Is the line at 85cm or 88.5cm from the tail?
Picked up this years model and the line is 85cm straight pull from the tail. just wondering if this is correctly printed or if the correct mount line 88.5cm from the tail in reference to this link
http://www.4frnt.com/index.php/en/co...e-EHP-373.html

**hick** · 10-10-2009, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by volklpowdermaniac

Anyone skied both vintages of 193.

07-08 vs 08-09

Wondering this myself...

**robnow** · 10-10-2009, 09:36 AM

And any differences in the 09/10 from the 08/09 version other than graphics???

**displaced** · 01-29-2010, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by alma del polvo

where is the suggested line on your 193 ehps? Is the line at 85cm or 88.5cm from the tail?
Picked up this years model and the line is 85cm straight pull from the tail. just wondering if this is correctly printed or if the correct mount line 88.5cm from the tail in reference to this link
http://www.4frnt.com/index.php/en/co...e-EHP-373.html

Anyone have an answer on this? I've got this going as well - on this year's 193 sidewall, the mark is at 85 cm (pulled straight from tail). They (Eric/4FRNT) seem to be saying this is wrong, and to mount @ 88.5 cm from tail. This feels a bit forward to me? I'm tempted to try remounting them at the factory mark (85 cm). Before going this route, I was hoping someone might be able to measure where boot center is marked on last year's 193 EHPs?

for reference: 88.5 cm = 34.8425" or 34 13/16"
thanks

**gramboh** · 02-06-2010, 03:36 PM

My 08-09 193 at 85cm from tail. I know in another thread someone said Hoji does 88.5cm. Mine are fine where they are. I'd be curious to see how they ski a bit more forward, I end up backseat sometimes (mostly lower speed and probably due to my shitiness).

**iscariot** · 03-16-2010, 09:23 AM

Bump...

...because these skis are stomp machines.

**bumpking** · 10-09-2010, 11:47 AM

I too own a pair of 4 frnt EHP in a 177cm. Very stable in deep snow but they feel a bit tenative when I get foward on the ski. I had them mounted boot center and thought that may be too foward but everyone tells me that even backing off the mounting position would be the same feel on a rockered ski that length.(good! because sure don't want to remount them)
I typically ski with a very tight profile and knees very foward, weigh about 155 soaking wet & about 5'6". Maby, I've got to learn to ski them a bit more erect?

**freshtracks** · 10-10-2010, 10:13 AM

How stiff is the tail on these? Anyone use them as a comp ski?

**DerekPersson** · 10-10-2010, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by freshtracks

How stiff is the tail on these? Anyone use them as a comp ski?

They're pretty burly, especially the 193 with the flatter tail.... they're no rc112, but I would say the 193 version especially could be pretty good for comps.

**freshtracks** · 10-12-2010, 10:39 AM

Yeah I got a pair of RC112's but I am thinking about swapping them out for the flat camber and a little more rocker. Guess I will have to wait for demo time.

**jungleb77** · 08-13-2011, 04:07 PM

To the first reviewer above... was great to read your review from two years ago. I was in line when the Ripper opened, and damn, it was -30 C or something (-22F) That season got going late late, end of March.

Anyway, I'm not sure how much the EHP has changed since 2009, but looking at my 2010's (In August). The recommended line looks like its about 4 cm ahead of where I have it on very similar pow skis (Faction 13s). I'm wondering if the more forward point is for lighter skiers (like Eric?) I'm 200 lb, 6-2 ex racer, usually find that Volkl puts the line really far back, but these EHPs look crazy forward.

Anyway, a lot of geeking out, but any advice based on you guys' 193s?

Originally Posted by gramboh

Really nice and detailed review. I'll add a few points from the 2 days I've had on mine so far:

5'10", 203lbs, 27 y/o ex-racer (junior level, never did FIS)
2008-09 EHP 193 mounted with Marker Duke at suggested line
Haven't skied any other ski with early rise tip/reverse camber/reverse sidecut etc, these are the first 'non-conventional' powder ski I've been on
Conditions were a mix of fresh pow shin-knee deep, soft packed and hard pack groomers on the lower mountain

- Absolutely slay pow and want to ski really quickly, you move fast on these
- Totally agree with comments above about how the ski comes 'alive' in pow once it gets planing. I think it's because that is when the softer tip gets engaged and gives you a lot of energy from turn to turn
- Fun surfy/slarvy feeling when they are floating in pow, but not super pivoty, wasn't sure what to expect here (pivot/slarve wise) since I haven't been on any other non-traditional pow ski before
- Like iscariot says, these things float on anything, even a couple CM over soft packed and you can feel it, really cool
- Bit of work in tighter trees with variable snow (e.g. one turn untracked, then onto harder snow/traverse, back into untracked etc), probably would prefer the 186 here
- Surprised with them on hardpack, as iscariot says above you can't just roll on them and use the sidecut, but I found them really easy to get down the groomers on. If I put energy into them I could get decent super-G like turns or I could skid out the tails without feeling unstable, they are really damp and do not flap at all, no confidence issues
- I love the feeling of being able to kick out the tails really easily, not sure how to describe it, but I used it lot on traverses when I'd get going really fast I could just throw them sideways to dump speed and back forward with no effort, but they feel stable when going straight (what I mean is this feature doesn't compromise the stability when on edge)
- Good grip in icy entrances to chutes, no confidence issues
- Moguls are not fun, although I found I could pivot pretty easily, really I was just trying to get down without wasting energy
- Pretty damn heavy with Dukes, didn't go to the sidecountry due to sketch conditions, just played around a bit, although holding them in my hand they feel the same as my ANT's w/ metal S900's.

All in all I am happy with them, I honestly didn't think I gave up too much on hardpack performance from my other skis (07-08 Armada ANT 191) although I definitely prefer the ANTs in hardpack performance. HUGE improvement in pow performance from the ANTs, I felt like I could ski centered/aggressive on the EHPs versus having to sit back on the ANTs, the surfy feeling is awesome too as welll as the energy in pow.

Made a couple decent core shots (small) which I wasn't surprised with as cover is still thin at KH. As well as a decent side topsheet chip, not sure how (might have been gondola loading since I didn't take any falls), kind of pissed at that, not sure if it needs repair or not but I don't want to lose more in the same area and compromise the integrity of the ski.

**Lieblingsleguan** · 08-15-2011, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by jungleb77

Anyway, a lot of geeking out, but any advice based on you guys' 193s?

I'm 6-2, 230ish, have the 193 EHPs 2009/10 mounted with dukes on the line. No float issues, no urge to mount them back. That said, I've been riding them in the alps where, unfortunately, deep days have been rare during the last season.

The line really is quite forward, but I haven't heard any complaints about that, works well with the shape. If I were you, I would test the recommended line, you can still remount them if it doesn't work at all for you.

**iscariot** · 08-15-2011, 02:59 PM

So I now have the 193's and the 186's. (and I bought backups for each as they are changing the ski a bit for the 2011/2012 season).

For my weight and style the mounting line on both is perfect.

The 186 mounting is a bit more toward the tail of the ski, so you get good float and awesome maneuverability in tight spaces, or when you're just punting around the mountain with friends. The tail is slightly more turned up on the 186, so switch landings are possible, but require attention. These are playfull, poppy, floaty, pivoty.

The 193 mounting point is more forward on the ski when compared to the 186. This makes the landings more stable and creates a more even surf/float throughout the length of the ski, while maintaining reasonable maneuverability. The tail is flatter and more square, which helps the landings, and helps back-slipping into tight places, but switch lands are not going to happen easily if at all. These are playfull, floaty, slarvy, steep seeking, stomp machines.

I feel like the mounting point on these skis, given their shape and flex, are really in the right place for the skis and their intended purpose. Drive these skis from a centered stance and the come alive pretty much everywhere on the mountain.

I'm basically selling the rest of my quiver this coming season and sticking with EHP's in 193 and 186. Since I started skiing the EHP's, the rest of my skis don't really get out a lot.

**jungleb77** · 08-18-2011, 10:17 AM

Thanks for the input guys. Perhaps I'll stick with the line. I'll probably drill them myself, so remounting shouldn't cost anything if I do want to move back. cheers!!

**bigstix** · 08-24-2011, 12:56 AM

I ride the 193's mounted at the recommended mounting point (88.5 from the tail). I love the way they ski at that set up, but only weigh 175. One recommendation though. Measure to make sure your line is correct. My line on the sidewall was off about 3 cm off on both skis. EH had a post in a blog on the 4frnt webpage that I can no longer find but here is what was copied from the "'10/11 EHP" thread.

EDIT: Eric updated the info on the 193 from his original post. Here is the revised mounting info:

There's some new info on mounting points posted by Eric Hjorliefson on the 4FRNT site today: http://www.4frnt.com/index.php/en/co...2011-ehps.html

Just wanted to post this info:

The 2011 EHP have new plastic inserts at the end of the tail. This new design eliminates the steel edge at the end of the tail and increases durability, it also allows for notching a groove for ski touring skin tail clips.

The plastic tail insert has slightly shortened the total length of the 179 and 186 ski by 1 cm.

These are the new boot center mounting positions to accommodate for tail inserts and 1 cm shorter overall length of the 179 and 186:

178 ski center 89 cm, - 6 cm mounting position = 83 cm from tail

185 ski center 92.5 cm, - 6 cm mounting position = 86.5 from tail

*193 ski center 96.5 cm, - 8 cm mounting position = 88.5 cm from tail
*the 193 hasn't lost any length due to its original tail shap.

It is always a good idea to double check the factory marked mounting positions before mounting you new skis.

*To get the most accurate measurement possible press the tape/measuring device flat on the ski to account for the curvature of the ski.

Enjoy Shredding on you new EHP's!!!

Cheers,

Eric Hjorleifson