I-Banking Job vs Tahoe ski bum

[laxandski]

My roommate and I are in our final year in college. He has gotten a job offer at an investment bank for the next two years. He has decided to take it but isn't completely convinced.

The other option is to not take the job and live in Tahoe next year and just ski for a year then take the job. He is a rippin' skier. Ibanking job isn't a normal 9-5 job. He will be working 70-80 hours a week.

Thought this would be an interesting mix of people to get some feedback.

Should he take the job or should he move to tahoe ski for a year and then take the job?

[LightRanger]

The obvious answer is... ski.

And seriously, unless he's a workaholic, tell him to work somewhere else in the financial sector. All my recent college grads who work in I-Banking hate their lives (I'm two years out). Many have ditched it already. It's for some, but definitely not all. You make shittons of money, but you can work for a place like a VC firm and work fewer hours and make shittons of money too (albeit less than banking). That's my understanding of it all from friends' points of view.

But tell him to ski bum in Utah or Colorado. Tahoe's full.

[kidwoo]

Ski for a year. That will burn it into his head the following year just how bad those types of work environments are that take bright eyed college grads and fuck them in the ass for their first job.

Then he'll be motivated to find a happy medium and realize that there are other types of employment out there.

Unless of course he needs a 5000 dollar HD tv and a sweet lexus at a young age.

[Brock Landers]

Another IB thread? Holy shit.

70-80 hours a week? might be a bit more too. Tell him to do whatever the fuck he wants. He can always work now and figure out he hates it in a year and be a ski bum.

[Hugh Conway]

He can always work now and figure out he hates it in a year and be a ski bum.

or just get kicked out in a couple years if he can't hack it.

[Arty50]

OR, he can take the job for a year or two and make enough money to move to Tahoe and do absofuckinglutely nothing but play for a year or two. Seriously, if he doesn't blow his expendable income on useless shit and saves it instead, he should have more than enough money to do this.

Resume wise, it's probably better to play then get job, but living wise it would be much nicer to do the opposite. And as others have said, investment banking is a brutal, brutal business. Most people burn out. So a nice long Tahoe vacation would be just what the doctor ordered after a year or two under the gun.

[Raps]

OR, he can take the job for a year or two and make enough money to move to Tahoe and do absofuckinglutely nothing but play for a year or two.

Resume wise, it's probably better to play then get job, but living wise it would be much nicer to do the opposite.

I agree with Arty - i have seen friends do both and the work first then ski enables you to live a pimp lifestyle BUUUUT and a big but is that if you start working first you may get sucked into it and never make it to the mountains. I have a few friends who said "oh yeah i'm gonna work in finance for a year, make money and then move to Colorado with you Raps".........well guess where they are now........still at their I banking desks working 100 hours a week, with girlfriends etc....and they are not moving out here anytime soon......


So yeah my advice on the safe side would be ski now work later - unless you are 100% sure you won't be sucked into the trap i just mentioned. I worked for a year in NYC and then moved out to CO but it isn't easy to leave "the real world" once you start grinding away so be wary.......

[LightRanger]

OR, he can take the job for a year or two and make enough money to move to Tahoe and do absofuckinglutely nothing but play for a year or two. Seriously, if he doesn't blow his expendable income on useless shit and saves it instead, he should have more than enough money to do this.

Resume wise, it's probably better to play then get job, but living wise it would be much nicer to do the opposite. And as others have said, investment banking is a brutal, brutal business. Most people burn out. So a nice long Tahoe vacation would be just what the doctor ordered after a year or two under the gun.

That's a good point. I know around these parts they start at, what? $140k? $160k now? Something like that. I still say fukit, but that's just MHO.

[SkiOrDie]

As a 56 year old who spent his early years working at least 80 to 90 hours per week, I can tell you that it's a missed opportunity - going to work. But, at this stage, I can really decide to just ski for the rest of my life if I want.

So, the good news is that once you've "made it" you can ski places like Dear Valet and go Heliskiing, by paying for it rather than being sponsored. The bad news is that you'll spend your younger years, when your legs are stronger, sitting behind a desk or conference table working your ass off.

I must say, I enjoyed the work, so I looked forward to working and like the hunt and the kill. But, it isn't for everyone, and you can wake up in your mid-40s and realize that you've just spent every waking moment working. It happens to a lot of folks in that line of work.

What I did was make sure that I skied with my family every year, took some time off between job to just bum around - went sailing, and made a point of pausing between jobs to really enjoy things.

Either way, you're going to work hard at something or be a lazy bum. Why not get paid a lot for all that hard work???

[Jim S]

Having read the posts above and seeing what I've done or not done with my life, looking at my peers and people I know:

SKI NOW

And if you don't go back to the rat race and ski bum for the next 10 years then good for you.




RAMBLING: I'm 44. I skied almost none from age 22 to 32 and just a bit more ages 32 to 40. The trade off is now I ski a lot more now and I can afford heli trips, etc. If my job goes to hell ( and it's gotten pretty poor over the past few months very fast), I would do whatever it took to stay here or in in a ski area. I'd rather live in a shack and ski than not ski. I don't live in a shack but I have. I could go on a tangent but I'll stop here.


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[Skiermike]

Consider that getting a real job helps if you want to spend lots of time, say, heli-skiing or skiing in South America or Europe (quality vs. quantity). These are the types of things that are easier to do when you're relatively young and have money, than when you're relatively old and have money (and kids, and a mortgage, and blah blah blah). If you choose the job path, you'll have the money but it'll be a battle to get the time off. I grew up in a ski town so getting the real job, going heli skiing to South America made more sense for me than moving back home. But if you've never done the resort thing, it's worth a try for awhile. Just remember that you'll never be able to afford to do some of those things if you're bartending.

[Huckwheat]

I think ski first.
A) you might never actually do, once in the rat race.
B) easier to explain on the resume.

EDIT, for a totally different thought

I also say you ski now and truly challenge yourself to take your/his skiing up to its highest level. Raise the bar early, and then you will have a higher confidence level which will always stick with you.

[Jim S]

I don't see any pow in his life..



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[cranked]

The other option is to not take the job and live in Tahoe next year and just ski for a year then take the job. He is a rippin' skier. Ibanking job isn't a normal 9-5 job. He will be working 70-80 hours a week.

The reality is, if he doesn't take the job now, he is going to have a really tough time getting in banking again unless he goes to business school.

I struggle with this everyday...I work with kids from Harvard, Princeton, Stanford and Berkeley that haven't had an ounce of fun in their lives. I was working 40s, making decent money, sufing 50 days/year and skiing the same...I wouldn't trade a thing. Went back to school and now landed in banking hell.

That being said, these kids will have a ton of options after 2-3 years in the bank...but their lives are passing them by.

My 2 cents...tell him to ski for a year. Get a job elsewhere, enjoy his freedom and lack of responsibility. Banking will always be there...in 5 years if he decides he really wants to be a banker and have no life and lots of money, he can go to a top business school and make it happen.

Work will always be there...youth and freedom from responsibiltiy won't.

[BeanDip4All]

I dont know, on the flip side is (if he's good, and willing to work hard), he can take a job, work for 10 years in banking and then retire FOREVER. Or leverage that experience to a cushy private equity job where everyone basically phones it in (literally- telecom in on your board meetings from wherever).

Raps, I resent your implication that your friends are saddled down "with girlfriends." Harumph!! Many of us girls want to cash out too, yaknow! A few more bonus seasons and my ass is in Argentina so fast

As someone living in NYC working in finance and averaging 30 day seasons, it's not that bad. I get out west a few times a year, and take many weekends up at Whiteface or the like. There are times I HATE it and there are times I love it. I am kind of addicted to the fast paced lifestyle though. I don't know if I'd know how to slow down to the point where I'm in a mountain town and not moving a million miles an hour with my hair on fire </topgun quote>

PS- yes this is a drunk post I was gifted a case of wine today at work for no reason at all except it was snowing out (boss owns a vineyard, 4 cereal)
pps- yeah, i did just have to cancel straightline camp because of work, so maybe take that with a grain of salt!

[bklyn]

He will be working 70-80 hours a week...

You mean on a week when he got a day off, right?

If you want to be successful and happy in finance, you've got to love it. You have got to love making deals, and counting other people's money. Look at the lives of the guys who are 10-15 years into those jobs. If you like and respect them, then by all means follow in their footsteps. It has to be your raison d'etre, otherwise you will hate your life and the succubus that slapped on the golden handcuffs. It has to be about more than making 'a lot of money'.

When the only 'powder' around is the residue of your soul being ground into dust by a finance job it will be too late.

[wcf3]

One thing to consider is that 'going back' isn't necessarily easy in either direction. If you go for any really attractive career (either highly paid or highly desirable for other reasons) as a fresh baked college grad, expect it to require serious commitment <=> huge hours. This is true in finance, law, medicine, architecture, consulting...

If you go for it, it takes a couple of years until you've paid enough dues so that you can have some kind of life style outside of work. By then your athletic skills will have probably deteriorated to the point that you're going to be 'starting over' again at a much lower level (and older too!). You may never get back to the level you could have reached by trying to max your athletic potential while in your prime.

On the other hand, if you take a year off after school, many of the jobs that are there for recent grads won't be available to you. I.e. there may not be an option "...live in Tahoe next year and just ski for a year then take the job".

There is another option, which can get you the best of both worlds. Take off not for one year, but for three to five and see whether you can get to the next level (competition rock star, heli guide, bc legend, whatever). That may end up being the life and you do what's necessary in terms of waiting tables and pounding nails to keep it going. I'm sure there are plenty of folks represented on TGR that are into year 15+ of 'taking off' and still loving it.

If it starts getting old, either for the sacrifices necessary to live the dream, of just because it doesn't offer the kind of intellectual stimulation that other paths do, move on to plan B. Go back to graduate school, then hit the job market with your advanced degree in hand.

Going this route means starving for a lot longer, and you aren't going to get the same quality grad school as you could get into now, but your career options will be better when you get out and your skiing will be way better.

[upallnight]

That's a good point. I know around these parts they start at, what? $140k? $160k now? Something like that. I still say fukit, but that's just MHO.

gotta clarify something here....

entry-level I-banking is (a) a shit job for anyone who is intelligent and free-thinking (aka updating spreadsheets) and more importantly (b) pays nowhere near that to someone who just came out of undergrad.

they dangle the carrot of "how much more you will make next year" all the time, so there is always pressure to stay for "just one more year." aside from that, the better paying I-banking jobs are in cities where cost of living is high (e.g., NYC), so after rent is paid (plus all the "regular" expenses of living in manhattan) most people who go that route aren't that much ahead.

[Raps]

Raps, I resent your implication that your friends are saddled down "with girlfriends." Harumph!! Many of us girls want to cash out too, yaknow! A few more bonus seasons and my ass is in Argentina so fast

Haha you got me on that one - sorry to generalize.......you pretty much have it dialed with your gig - how is it going? I call dibs on couch space in Argentina

[DharmaBum]

By all means, he should take whtever advice he gets from an internet forum and run with it.

[Jim S]

When the only 'powder' around is the residue of your soul being ground into dust by a finance job it will be too late.

So well written, I would you hug big time and not just for cheap thrills!




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[cranked]

(a) a shit job for anyone who is intelligent and free-thinking (aka updating spreadsheets) and more importantly.

True...it can be monkey work...but it is also one of the most comptitive fields in the world to get into. even though they may lack a lifestyle, they worked their asses off to get where they are and deserve some credit...differtent paths for different people. If you think "anyone" can get a job as an analyst, you have never attempted it. I saw it from the hiring side, and it is brutal. We gave ~5 offers to over 300 applicants...all people that nearly aced their SATs.

(b) pays nowhere near that to someone who just came out of undergrad.

...you are dead wrong on pay...analysts I work with are making that easy with bonus, but they are driven by the money, again different strokes.


EDIT: for those that said you can retire in 10 years, etc...that may be true. But the reality is, most people will marry, buy house, live to their earnings and be stuck in the lifestyle. The thing your buddy has going for him is a complete lack of responsibilities right now...that disappears with each year, relationship, purchase, etc.

[Airsatz]

The reality is, if he doesn't take the job now, he is going to have a really tough time getting in banking again unless he goes to business school.

Good point.

But another factor to consider; a lot my friends from high school and college got into I-Banking, just kind of slipped right in using connections with alumni and friends parents who were in the biz. Those connections, if they are tight, can get you behind a desk at those operations just about any time you want.

If you have tight connections, go skiing no questions asked.

If circumstances are different, go skiing anyway

[BeanDip4All]

you behind a desk at those operations

WHATEVER HE DOES, TELL HIM NOT TO GO INTO "OPERATIONS" AT AN IBANK!!!! ahhh!!! Run!!! run I tell you!!!

talk about a dead end job. He'll never get to FOH, ever.

I know that was taken out of context, but it's funeh

[cranked]

Good point.

But another factor to consider; a lot my friends from high school and college got into I-Banking, just kind of slipped right in using connections with alumni and friends parents who were in the biz. Those connections, if they are tight, can get you behind a desk at those operations just about any time you want.

If you have tight connections, go skiing no questions asked.

If circumstances are different, go skiing anyway

Excellent point...connections are god in this industry...sux.


To BeanDip...you can't be a banker getting 30 days/year. I have gone from ~50 to...count 'em...3 days on the mountain this year.