Apple Customer Service - WTF

**hev** · 02-17-2008, 09:50 AM

So inline with recent trends for using the internet and this board to tarnish brand image I wanted to take a minute to crap on Apple's name.

Admittedly I have become a bit of a hoar for their products recently. They cost more, but usually have distinguishing features or design that, if you have the money, justify the price. I have worked in design long enough to understand why these small features cost a lot for the end user, but I also figured a bit of that extra money was ensuring good quality control and solid customer service. NOT THE CASE.

My recent purchase came mis-configured and they're now forcing me to give it back to get it fixed! This system is truly in a price bracket where these types of mistakes are inexcusable. Well, I am hoping to get Apple's management attention on this one and I need your help.

Take a minute to click my blog post and leave some comments on this situation.
Your clicks and comments will increase my visibility and likelihood of escalation.

Thanks for your help.
Hev

**coreshot-tourettes** · 02-17-2008, 10:15 AM

I have firsthand knowledge of Apple's engineering design processes and methods.

I will never buy an Apple product as a result.

**hutash** · 02-17-2008, 10:48 AM

Hev, taking Neptuning to a new level

I hate Apple, I have never bought one of their products, nor am I likely too.

**hutash** · 02-17-2008, 10:57 AM

Just read your blog, and see it is a typical lack of customer service. I love how that make their screw up your problem. I always ask to speak to somebody who can fix my problem. There is usually somebody higher up the chain that can deal with it. The first round of customer service is usually an un-empowered moron, so it can take two or three more levels to get to somebody who can do something. This sounds like such a simple fix that I can't see why even this lowly moron can't fix it.

P.S. I didn't leave a blog comment because I don't like the e-mail requirement, but you are well to cut and paste this.

**belgian** · 02-17-2008, 11:07 AM

I hate Apple more than anyone, but this sounds pretty mild. They even gave you a free copy of Office 2008 out of it. Sucks that you have to send it in just to get a DVD drive installed, but fuck man, if you need the thing THAT BADLY, just say screw it and buy one off of NewEgg and install it yourself. For the price you claim to have thrown down on one computer you could probably afford an additional $35 DVD drive. Unless of course a non-matching drive would screw up your computer feng shui and you actually care about that.

And just my $.02, regardless of the fact that Apple has "neat" design decisions, as the end user paying as much for a single computer + monitor as for a car is pretty freaking silly. PC or Mac.

**Eldo** · 02-17-2008, 11:20 AM

Completely agree with Hutash. Basic advice for any sort of consumer issue: If you don't get satisfaction from the service rep you are dealing with, go up the chain of command until you do.

Lower end people do NOT have the authority to deviate from their script of solutions. Go higher in the command chain until you find someone with the ability to actually make a decision on the fly.

If you want to get management's attention, speak with them! Don't just hope they will see a blog.

(I like how these threads always bring out the Apple haters. Relax, PC Guys. The fact Apple gets more attention than the entire PC world really doesn't matter. All that's important it that you are happy with your computer. Don't let the green-eyed monster take over!

)

**hev** · 02-17-2008, 11:28 AM

Thanks guys. I have been escalating and I am still working my way up the chain. I just got a call from a manager @ Apple a few minutes ago (based on my call yesterday not from this post), and he continued to fumble on this one.

I forgot to ask yesterday if they'd be keeping my software installs in tact. It's all freeware at this point, but a decent amount of time has gone into pulling over software and files and configging passwords etc. The computer is going to be a FULL REPLACEMENT instead. GAWD! This is ridiculous. This guy still didn't have the communication channels to fix the problem and I told him he needs to file my complaint at a higher level because there is clearly a more convenient solution to this problem and I expect to hear from someone higher up later this week. I will say the reps are good about offering up their managers, but it's the weekend so I am not getting to who I really need to speak with.

edit: belgian, this whole argument is really on principle. Corporations will go to great lengths to save face. Office 2008 is a drop in the bucket to Apple.

**Arty50** · 02-17-2008, 11:41 AM

This isn't really the end of the world is it? Yes, they screwed up; but it's not like your computer blew up or anything. Also, they'll pay for shipping and everything too. So other than the down time, this won't cost you anything. Oh and you're getting a free copy of Office to boot.

That said, it sounds like the CS rep you got could have handled this better. I would escalate this and see what happens. Also, you can handle things through the physical stores; but you have to initiate it at the store. They do repairs there and will even send stuff into Apple for you. I warrantied an iPod through the Reno store once. Dropped it off at the store and picked up the replacement a couple of days later. Talk to someone in the store and see if they can help you out. Don't call phone support and ask them to hook you up with the store. Treat the phone support as a store in and of itself. In any case, it sucks that you have to jump through these hoops. Still, they will get it fixed.

Oh and Apple has the highest ranked customer service/support department of any computer manufacturer. It's been #1 for several years now. So this is probably an aberration. I've had to warranty my iPod twice (it was a refurb). The first time, they overnighted me a replacement the very same day they received my unit. The second time, I went through the store and it was equally speedy. While I'm a bit disappointed by the quirks in my iPod, I've owned Macs for over 20 years and have never had a problem other than having one hard drive crap out after 3-4 years and you can't blame Apple for that.

The people in this thread who are saying Apple's build quality is shit are full of said material. Not only are they ranked number 1 in customer service, but they've also have the lowest incidence of hardware failures of any computer manufacturer for many years too.

**hev** · 02-17-2008, 11:59 AM

Arty, I am not really trying to be confrontational about it with Apple. It's not about the drive at all. I really think their service model needs improving and this is an opportunity to stir the pot on that point a bit.

My last call I really emphasized that my frustration is around the fact that they are so fragmented that they can't offer a convenient solution through the use of their storefront. Many other brands are coordinating this service and it's embarrassing Apple can't keep up. The managers I have spoken with are professional and diplomatic but don't have the tools they need to solve a practical problem.

**Eldo** · 02-17-2008, 12:05 PM

Good work, Hev. Keep at it. Too many people these days just accept these kind of things without trying to do anything about it.

**Arty50** · 02-17-2008, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by hev

Arty, I am not really trying to be confrontational about it with Apple.

Oh I didn't mean it that way. I agree, this should be as simple as "We'll ship you the drive and you send the old one back in the box" or "Go down to the store and they'll swap it out for you."

I'm just an old Apple whore myself, so I had to back them up a bit.

**hev** · 02-17-2008, 12:11 PM

This should be in this thread:

**Tippster** · 02-17-2008, 12:49 PM

Huh - yesterday I took my 2.5yo iPod (The 60GB iPod Photo) to the local "Genius Bar" because it wouldn't start. They fool around w/it for a minute, ask to take it in the back so they can open it up, and 5 minutes later bring it back out - working perfectly. Guy said the HDD was hanging loose, so they reattached it and it's all good.

"How much do I owe you?"

"Nothing - glad we could help. You may need to come back in a year or two to replace the battery, but you should be fine 'til then."

I was totally prepared for them to tell me it had Bricked and was willing to buy a $250 iPod Classic. I left VERY pleasantly surprised.

**iscariot** · 02-17-2008, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Arty50

The people in this thread who are saying Apple's build quality is shit are full of said material. Not only are they ranked number 1 in customer service, but they've also have the lowest incidence of hardware failures of any computer manufacturer for many years too.

I when through 4 ipods in 8 months (3 x 40GIG, 1 x 60GIG color photo). Then an another 2 ipods within the 2 year applecare warranty. The replacement was speedy, but the need to replace was clearly bad manufacturing. Bricked every time.

I like to be able to tinker with my PC, replace drives, memory, etc...I like the fact that I can choose what goes into my various computers. With apple you get the "system integration" thing, but to me that takes away choice. The same way that I would never buy a ski with a binding restrictor plate. I want to be able to choose my ski and binding without being subjugated to a specific "choice" by the manufacturer who is trying to sell more of its own goods. Universal compatibility benefits the consumer, Universal manufacturing benefits the massive corporation.

**Spats** · 02-17-2008, 01:14 PM

hev: you got a $300+ piece of software out of the deal and all you have to do is take your computer back to the UPS store and wait a few days.

Sure, I'd be a little bit annoyed, but I'd personally save my righteous indignation and boycott campaign for when I actually get ripped off.

**dethklok878** · 02-17-2008, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by hubie

point proven. i use an 8 or 9 year old mac powerbook g4 every day. i installed the new operating system (osx) on it a couple years ago. then upgraded the hard drive to a larger one last year. this thing works like a charm. i would bet that none of you guys are still using a pc that you had in 1999. my wife just bought a new macbook pro, and i can barely tell the difference between it and the old one. so what if a mac costs more than a pc. if it lasts 3 times as long and still works like new it is worth every penny.

what are you doing to your ipods? are you getting them wet or something? i have had a shuffle for years, although i don't use it much anymore. then i bought myself a 30gb ipod video when they first came out. then i bought my wife a 60gb ipod video when they came out. we both plug them into our cars every day and take them everywhere. both have worked fine and never had a single problem.

get an apple computer and you won't have to do any "tinkering" with it. you want to talk about universal compatibility? i can access photos on every camera or cell phone that i plug into my apple. i tried plugging my digital camera into my mother-in-law's pc and couldn't access anything without putting the camera's software on her computer. unfortunately the disk that came with the camera was in colorado, and i was in north carolina.

apple rocks!

And what are we betting? I have a Gateway 2000 (remember when they were called that) with a 90 Mhz Pentium still running. It was my media server until about 3 years ago. Only modification was more ram and a new hard drive, and OS upgrades.

Hmmm.

**hev** · 02-17-2008, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Spats

hev: you got a $300+ piece of software out of the deal and all you have to do is take your computer back to the UPS store and wait a few days.

Sure, I'd be a little bit annoyed, but I'd personally save my righteous indignation and boycott campaign for when I actually get ripped off.

$150 for the version I got. Not really much considering the purchase price and the inconvenience of the down time and reconfiguration of software.

**smalls** · 02-17-2008, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by hubie

i put my old mac with upgrades beside a brand new one, virtually no difference.

For surfing the intraweb, maybe. But comparing internet surfing on an old g4 to a new MBpro isn't exactly telling. Batch process ~1000 photos with multiple actions or edit some HD video on both machines and you'll see a difference.

**dethklok878** · 02-17-2008, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by hubie

do you now use this computer for your daily internet surfing? does it have a 14.4k modem too? just kidding.

does it perform like a brand new pc?

put your old pc with upgrades beside a brand new one and compare. i would bet there is a huge difference in speed and performance.

i put my old mac with upgrades beside a brand new one, virtually no difference.

I don't use it every day anymore, but it has a fully functional ethernet card, and was used as a server, not a device to surf with. Your Apple is 9 years old. My Gateway is 16. Slight difference. Either way, original power supply, original motherboard. I do however have a Dell from 1999 which has had updates, and I do use very frequently, and yeah, it surfs as fast as my 2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo. The difference is in AutoCAD, 3DsMax, and other processor intensive programs. I guarantee that if you put your new MacBook side-by-side with the old G4, the G4 would pale in comparison on 3DsMax benchmarks.

I'm sick of the Macs rule, PCs suck generalizations. The point is that both are equally durable, and now use virtually identical components, hence software like BootCamp.

**iscariot** · 02-17-2008, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by hubie

point proven. i use an 8 or 9 year old mac powerbook g4 every day. i installed the new operating system (osx) on it a couple years ago. then upgraded the hard drive to a larger one last year. this thing works like a charm. i would bet that none of you guys are still using a pc that you had in 1999. my wife just bought a new macbook pro, and i can barely tell the difference between it and the old one. so what if a mac costs more than a pc. if it lasts 3 times as long and still works like new it is worth every penny.

My PC Desktop is from 2001. Did the same mods as you and is still faster than most of my friends newer computers.

Originally Posted by hubie

what are you doing to your ipods? are you getting them wet or something? i have had a shuffle for years, although i don't use it much anymore. then i bought myself a 30gb ipod video when they first came out. then i bought my wife a 60gb ipod video when they came out. we both plug them into our cars every day and take them everywhere. both have worked fine and never had a single problem.

I took it in my car, and used it as a music storage drive for my PC laptop. The first one I took skiing. The vibration alone killed it. I stopped using the replacements for sports because they couldn't hold up.

Originally Posted by hubie

get an apple computer and you won't have to do any "tinkering" with it.

Didn't you just say that you replaced ram and upgraded HD to keep it working. I consider that tinkering.

Originally Posted by hubie

you want to talk about universal compatibility? i can access photos on every camera or cell phone that i plug into my apple. i tried plugging my digital camera into my mother-in-law's pc and couldn't access anything without putting the camera's software on her computer. unfortunately the disk that came with the camera was in colorado, and i was in north carolina.

apple rocks!

Actually, my apple ipod didn't rock. If it did I wouldn't be posting in this thread.

As far as universal compatibility .... I suppose that's why so many programs that I have to use everyday don't work on apply computers and you have to use mostly proprietary apple programs.

**365wp** · 02-17-2008, 04:03 PM

As far as I know, my friend is still using my P133 Dell from 1995 that's running OpenBSD. It's just a firewall, but it's been running for a long, long time. Dell used to be really good; they sent me a network card after I did the troubleshooting over the phone. And they sent a technician out the next day to replace a drive that failed.

I have a Shuttle PC that's almost four years old. I think I paid around $400 for the case/processor/RAM/hard drive. My wife still uses it for e-mail and teh internets without any problems. 256M of RAM running XP. I forget how old the video card in that thing is, I think a few years older than the computer.

**dethklok878** · 02-17-2008, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by hubie

yes, i did have a 2 pcs back in the late 90's each lasted about three or four years. the last one got slower and slower. started locking up all the time. blue screen with some fatal error message kept coming up. it would only start up in "safe mode." finally would not start at all. i took it to the shop, they told me the hard drive was toast, and that i could pay them an ungodly amount of money to try to recover the information, but they already could tell that it was pretty much a lost cause.

Yeah, because hardware failures are solely a PC thing. Uh huh. Do you actually know anything about computers? Last time I checked, Apple sourced their HDs from the same source as several PC manufacturers.

Idiot.

**focus** · 02-17-2008, 05:26 PM

My apple customer service experiences have been so-so. I had a powerbook with a superdrive failure a few years ago -- a known, well documented failure -- that happened literally one month out of warranty. I was shut down by the first kid on the phone I talked to, his boss, and then her boss; at which point I gave up and ponied up for a third-party shop to take care of me.

When Leopard came out I missed the uptodate program by about 4 days with my new mac purchase. The first person I talked to shut me down on squeaking me in. Their supervisor took care of me, however.

As for the iPod thing -- failure rates for those things are more or less in-line with the industry. Any measurable failure rate, multiplied across a hundred million units, is going to produce a lot of anecdotal bitching on the internet.

**hutash** · 02-17-2008, 05:33 PM

Let's talk about universal connectivity. Let's use the I-pod as an example...it hooks up to I-tunes, and......well that's it really. Very universal.

The point here is not about getting a $150 piece of software (that cost Apple way less then that), but getting something you ordered and expecting it to work as advertised. Sure thinks get screwed up, but that is what CS is for. You have a problem we created, so we should fix it. It is not a question of where they should bend over, but they should be asking, "How far should I bend over Mr. Hev." It is not like this is a complex problem. They didn't install a DVD drive, so they should send out a technician to his house with the DVD drive and install it. It is that simple. It is what Dell would do, and has done for me when a drive quit on me. Next time I used it it worked fine, but then sent a tech. out, he tested it, it worked fine, but he replaced it anyways. It was cheaper then a possible second service call. Why can't Apple see this?

**belgian** · 02-17-2008, 06:51 PM

I'm not gonna read through all the self-masturbation in this thread, but in case it hasn't been posed already:

Hev, couldn't you run down to the nearest Apple store (assuming there is one somewhat nearby) and get them to do it there? After, of course, calling to ensure that they have said part? It'd be easier and considerably quicker if you could.