Duke vs. NX21 vs. Freeride +

[schindlerpiste]

Now that you've had 1/2 season on Dukes, are they worth $150 more than NX21? $125 more than Freeride +? My touring binding DIN is set at about 11. It's not that important to have a little billy goat on my toe-piece. NX21 toe-piece has proven frail; a lot of people think the freeride bar gives too much lift, and that the 12 DIN is insufficient. I have an extra pair of NX21, and I need to mount something on my Sanouks.

[Huckin eh?]

I can't compare binding types, but I can tell you that I am 190lbs. I ride with my Freeride pluses at 9 DIN. I also have older freerides (the white ones) on an older pair of skis.
I have yet to break anything on a Fritchi in 4 years.

[summit]

My observations:

Best skiing:
1. Duke
2. NX21
3. Freeride

Best Touring
1. NX21
2. Freeride
3. Duke

Best Durability
1. Duke?
2. Freeride
3. NX21

[chocolatecoveredbacon]

i've been riding freerides for a number of years. never any problems. i haven't been on nx21s, but i feel they've been proven. i don't think i would go for the dukes though. heard about a lot of issues with them and not to crazy about the setup.

[Wetdog]

I have all three, but have not skied the Dukes yet. They are on a set of Praxis 195. I have Freerides Plus on 190 Gotamas, Freerides on G3 Reverends 185, and Naxo N21 on Mantras 191. The Freerides have seemed the simplest to operate in the field, but now that I am used to the Naxo climbing bar activation, I find it pretty easy as well. The Dukes do sit a little lower and probably will feel most like an alpine binding. I was in the same boat as you. I had bought Freerides for my Gotamas last year and then heard about the Duke and held off. After buying Praxis and Dukes, I decided to just put the Freerides on my Gotamas. I haven't regreted it. I did see a patroler the other day with Sanouks and Dukes and asked him about the set up. He said the he was very happy with it.

[mikemcee]

My .02? The Dukes ski better than the Naxos or FR's so unless you're doing long tours or don't have the strength to lug a few extra ounces uphill, it's a no brainer. So stoked to ski an AT binding that skis the same as an alpine binding.

[Harv]

The Naxo's tour better, the Freerides are simpler and the Dukes are closest to alpine binders. The thing that sucks about the Dukes (but also what makes them so close to an alpine binder) is that all of the touring mechanism is under your foot, so it seems like you have to take your ski off to do anything. Not a big deal really if you are just banging out yo-yo laps.

[Kauris]

I've been riding both NX21 and FR+, although have much more experience on FR. Like FR+ better due to better climbing performance. Better climbing lift and better lateral stiffness on climbing. I feel NX21 is better on flat approaches, but FR+ on steep climbing.

Selected FR+ on my new powder boards (120mm waist) over NX21 and duke as;
1. these are my powder boards, for powder skiing, off piste, so I thought Duke's much better stiffness, alpine binder rigidness does not matter that much as I have 20" soft fluffy powder under my ski anyway.
2. Weight saving makes a difference on long hikes.
3. $

I was even considering Dynafits instead, but figured out I do not want to limit myself to Dynafit compatible AT boots only. (although I do have a pair and love Dynafits on my light AT setup)

I did find a lot of usefull half scientific data on these bindings from wildsnow.com. Might want to check out the NX21 vs. FR+ comparison there.

[Poz]

it all comes down to what you do in the backcountry.

I ski the freerides and have no issues. I don't huck anything big though so I think that makes a big difference. If you're going to push the limits or land in the back seat frequently then I'ld say Dukes are the way to go.

I do enjoy touring though and appreciate the on the fly ability of locking/unlocking and raising the lift of the freerides.

[SkiFreak85353]

The thing that sucks about the Dukes (but also what makes them so close to an alpine binder) is that all of the touring mechanism is under your foot, so it seems like you have to take your ski off to do anything. Not a big deal really if you are just banging out yo-yo laps.

I heard this argument a bunch, and agreed with it. But, then I thought...don't I take my skis off to put my skins on anyways? If that's the case what does it matter?

I have the freeride + on a pair of 8800s and I couldn't be happier. I honestly don't notice any difference in skiing ability unless I step out of the Freerides and directly into FKSs...Lightweight and bomber.

[Bullet]

My .02? The Dukes ski better than the Naxos or FR's.

What does that mean - "ski better"? I've just a little skiing experience A few of the bindings I've used include - cables, looks, markers, salomon, Naxo, Freeride, 4FRNT, Tyrolia, GEZE, a couple of brands I don't remember - if it clamped my boot to the ski and didn't release when I didn't want it to, then it worked.

Click and forget.

I'm curious - how does one tell the difference between how one binding "skis" compared to another?


Note - I'm not trying to pick a fight or be a smart-ass, I'm sincerely trying to understand how one can compare how one binding skis better than another.

[cheerios]

I heard this argument a bunch, and agreed with it. But, then I thought...don't I take my skis off to put my skins on anyways? If that's the case what does it matter?

I had this same thought. I am trying to decide what to buy and don't have a lot of experiance in the backcountry. Besides putting skins on, how often do you really need to go between modes?

[mikemcee]

What does that mean - "ski better"? I've just a little skiing experience A few of the bindings I've used include - cables, looks, markers, salomon, Naxo, Freeride, 4FRNT, Tyrolia, GEZE, a couple of brands I don't remember - if it clamped my boot to the ski and didn't release when I didn't want it to, then it worked.

Click and forget.

I'm curious - how does one tell the difference between how one binding "skis" compared to another?


Note - I'm not trying to pick a fight or be a smart-ass, I'm sincerely trying to understand how one can compare how one binding skis better than another.

Torsional rigidity and ramp angle are two of the things that bothered me about both freerides and naxos. Those issues are gone with the Dukes. True, there are a lot of really amazing lines being skied on both those bindings, Davenport did his 14er project with them, but given the choice, which was what Schindlers post was about in the first place, my opinion was choose Dukes.

If you need more info, try the search function. Tons of threads around addressing the way different bindings ski.

[SkiFreak85353]

I had this same thought. I am trying to decide what to buy and don't have a lot of experiance in the backcountry. Besides putting skins on, how often do you really need to go between modes?

I have never really had a need to go between modes with skins on. I only ever really change when I put them on, or take them off, or if I'm just dicking around and want to make fun of free-heelers...There has been a *few* occasions descending some steeper longer pitches where it has been nice to be able to lock the ol' heel down, but, I would have survived otherwise.

The point was raised that it depends on what you're skiing...I agree. I love my freerides, but, generally just shred sweet lines, trees, and no drops bigger than ~10ft into fluffy snow I might be a little leery hucking my meat off some huge cliff with the Freerides...

[schindlerpiste]

I still don't know whether I should shell out an additional $150 for Dukes over NX21. Dukes seem to be a bit beefier, and MAYBE more durable, but NX21 tour better. When I'm railing groomers, I'm usually riding P18s. Right now, in soft snow, I have NX21. I guess the best of all worlds is to have P18s on my Stormrider SS, Dukes on my Gotama, and NX21 of my Sanouks.

[cheerios]

I have never really had a need to go between modes with skins on. I only ever really change when I put them on, or take them off, or if I'm just dicking around and want to make fun of free-heelers...

That is what I was thinking, but I DO understand to need to laugh at those still arguing the merits of free-heeling.

[Huckin eh?]

I use my on the fly mode changes on my FR+ quite often.
a) after a skin up when I want to stomp down the snow to make my transition pad and
b) when coming out of long flats where I can flick into tele mode and cross country ski for a bit!

I am sure I would miss this freedom if I switched bindings
I have a new pair of touring skis on the way and FR+s are going on them too!

[Wetdog]

[QUOTE=SkiFreak85353;1676971]I heard this argument a bunch, and agreed with it. But, then I thought...don't I take my skis off to put my skins on anyways? If that's the case what does it matter?

When doing back country touring, there are times when you need to take a short slide down before going up again, or a descending traverse. It is not worth the time to take your skins off for short descents, so it is easier to just lock the heal and go down with skins on then unlock them an ascend again. The skins can be a bit grabby during these situations on some types of snow and if you don't have your heels locked you get thrown forward, apart from the fact that you just have more control over your skis with your heel locked. I've been on some hikes through little gullies and such where I have gone up a down a dozen times in half an hour. With Freerides or Naxos you just push your heel lock down with your pole and you are locked. Pull up with the pole and unlocked. Taking your skis on and off in such situations to change modes would be a real pain in the ass. That is one of the reasons, other than weight and low climbing bar, that Dukes are usually recomended for shorter resort area ascents where you are not going through varied terrain with a lot of ups and downs.

[Tony]

Best skiing:
1. Duke (most torsionally rigid)
2. Freeride
3. NX21 (less torsionally rigid, according to Wildsnow's test)

Best Touring
1. Freeride (better on the steeps)
1. NX21 (better on the flats)
3. Duke (heavy)

Best Durability
1. Freeride (proven design with many years in the market)
2. NX21 (you've broke a toe piece, Schindler!)
3. Duke (less than one season so not proven yet and already a few broken toe pieces)

If first place gets 3 points, second place 2 points and third place one point, the score would be:

1. FR+: 8 points
2. NX21: 6 points
3. Dukes: 5 points

Note: I only weight 170 lbs. and not a hucker

[gamma]

in short, yes. the duke is way sturdier and skis like an alpine binding. defo like the FR+ over the naxo.. just way too many durability complaints.. broken toes, broken heels ecetera..

[Chugachjed]

Apparently I'm the only one that has had freerides magically transition me from alpine turns into tele turns in a place where I really didn't want that to happen. I've never had that problem with the NX-21's because they have the little lock which is a pain in the ass but I appreciate it. I've never skied the dukes but the impossibility of a sudden unexpected freeheel transition- excepting the possibility of breakage of some small part that locks the heel down (it is a marker)- is a huge plus from where I stand.

[GeezerSteve]

Apparently I'm the only one that has had freerides magically transition me from alpine turns into tele turns in a place where I really didn't want that to happen.

I have not heard of that happening on the Freeride Plus with anti-instatele red springy thing (assuming proper mounting).

[EpicSteeze]

My experiences of the Dukes and the FR+ have both been positive. The one thing I would say about the Duke is that I feel alot more comfortable on the days when I ski it inbounds than I have done on the FR+ - or any other AT binding I have been on. I also find the greatly reduced probability of the dreaded insta-tele phenomenon reassuring.

Whether that is worth the extra $150? Well, ... I guess it depends on your priorities.

[Imz]

I have two AT setups (The Dukes on a pair of Watea 101s, Dynafit Freerides on a pair of Atua 96s) and ski with three guys who happen to have the Naxo & Fritschi. Trying not to repeat what's already been said:

- I use my Dukes sled-assist skiing, inbounds, and side-country. I bought them to have fully functional toe release for ripping turns & not ripping my knees.
- Edge to edge they feel awesome; super responsive, no unwanted flex.
- I love being able to stomp into them (as opposed to my dynafits)
- When I want a "true" backcountry binding, I use my dynafits. They can be a hassle in cold/ icy conditions, and I lock them when I ski, so I'm always a little more concerned about getting injured.
- The Fritschi design is elegant in that you can switch back and forth between walk and ski on the fly, but it has never really bugged me having to kick off my skis (I haven't mastered tearing my skins off without removing my skis)

On the whole, I think the Dukes are perfect (and worth it) if you do a lot of side-country.

If you're looking for a pure AT rig, I'd buy something lighter and more tour specific.

[a11r2east]

I've ridden the Duke and Freeride (not plus) and go with the duke. I'm only 145 lbs. and i popped out of my fritschi all the time with the din set at 9. I would lose skis in the pow just skiing along and my heel would come undone in moguls. the only plus to the freeride's is that they are insanely light and good for touring with the three heights whereas the duke is pretty heavy and more geared for the skier who skis hard and likes to tour just to get more skiing. i also liked the duke better because it puts your boot lower on the ski as opposed to the bar on the freeride that lifts your foot up really high. go with the dukes and for solely touring and light skiing go with a dynafit or freeride plus