Reviews: 4frnt VCT 182

[Long duc dong]

I'm finally going to contribute some reviews to the board. Just got back from a 4 day binge at Mammoth, and skied different skis the last 3 days, all in powder.

Me:
I'm not the ripper that many are here, but I spent 5 seasons at Squaw during and after college. The last couple of seasons I've been a grad student, skiing 30-35 days a year, almost all at Mammoth. I don't do much straightlining or hucking any more. I've never dropped anything over 30-35 successfully, Smooth Air at Squaw(40) resulted in a new ACL. At Mammoth I mostly ski Hangmans, varmits, noid 4, philippe's, lines off 22, hemlock...Standard stuff, I have not hit top of the world yet, hopefully this year. I'm about 5'8" 165.

That was a long winded way of saying I'm a long way from rockstar level. Evaluate these reviews accordingly. When I say something does not have a speed limit that more likely means that I didn't find it, not that it is not there.

Skis I ski: I'm a creature of habit. When I lived in Tahoe I skied the same thing almost every day. 190 AK launchers(lost one), 193xxx's, then 190 CMH explosivs. Probably put 250+ days in on the CMH's. The last couple of years I've skied mostly 189 green pistols. Definitely more of an everyday guy then a quiver guy. I've skied 189 vicious, and loved them, favorite ski ever, until this week.

I should add that the CMH's I ski are somewhat softer than the black explosives or wizards.

4frnt VCT 182.

I skied these on Friday, in several feet of new, snowing all day type conditions. Snow was pretty heavy, solid base snow.

Groomers: Sidecut felt like the old explosives, except wider, which it is. They don't roll like the pistols, you have to make them turn a bit, but they were still very easy to ski. They have a solid flex, stiffer than green pistols but not iron. If I really tried to push the speed on a really hardpack day they might chatter, but I don't buy skis whose purpose is to ski groomers.

Powder: Skied avy chutes in a couple of feet of fresh, solid snow, and absolutely loved these. 104 wait makes it easy to bust through stuff. The tip does not flex with the snow quite the way it does on the pistols, but the overall width of the ski allows you to blast through stuff easily. Skied the trees under chair 25 in untracked and had a blast. Despite being only 182 you can really open them up and fly. I did not really find a speed limit, though I'm sure some on this board would. When they closed 22 I skied the runs under 22 from canyon and had a blast in the cut up stuff. The solid flex makes it easy to blast through stuff.

I would like to have gotten to ski some technical steeps in firm snow on these, but with the solid flex, and the short length I'm sure they would be fun. I would also like to try them in palisades-type straightlines. They seem a bit short for straightruns, but with the added width and solid flex I think they would be fine, probably about as good as my CMH's or green pistols, particularly if the snow is soft.

Overall: A great ski, if I could choose one ski to ski everyday at Mammoth or Squaw, this would be it. Agile enough for tight steeps, but solid enough to charge, easy to handle on groomers...If I could pick one, this would be it. When I skied them they ranked with the Seth Vicious' as my favorite skis ever.

Then I tried the ARG's and EHP's...

I will write reviews of ARG's and EHP's when I can. If you have not tried early rise/rocker/reverse camber or reverse sidecut you should.

[summit]

I'll add to this review. The 4frnt VCT is a Volkl Gotama by another name. Period. It is. It has the exact same shape size etc. It skis the same.In other words, awesome. There is one difference, they over a pound weigh less.

I have a pair of 182VCTs I have for sale great condition drilled once for P18s (will sell bindings too).

[SiSt]

Nice review! Looking forward to the ones on the ARGs and EHPs.

[Meathelmet]

bumpah!


I have a problem to find a turnier follower to my im103s and explosivs.

100-105mm, turning radius 24-28m and 180-185cm long.
Preferably twins.

The other ski is/was Legend pros (184,the softer one),maybe Stökli DP+(?)..


Anyone have more info on this 4frnt, those sticks sounds just about perfect.

[Ottime]

Solid ski overall. Big tail causes it to ski short, which can be a good thing. Go longer than you might usually for mostly soft snow conditions. I have the 175 from a few years ago. I'm 5'9" 190lbs. It is now my rock ski and it is fantastic and versatile. IF I were replacing it, I would go 182 for all mountain one ski quiver, or 189 for soft snow ski.

As a rock ski it show good durability. This particular set was lost off the back of a van on a highway going 60mph. Who knows if any cars hit it. We got back to them about 10 minutes later. Very little damage except top sheet chipping and a small delam in a tip and tail. A little epoxy and a remount, and they are killer.

[pechelman]

bumpah!


I have a problem to find a turnier follower to my im103s and explosivs.

100-105mm, turning radius 24-28m and 180-185cm long.
Preferably twins.

The other ski is/was Legend pros (184,the softer one),maybe Stökli DP+(?)..


Anyone have more info on this 4frnt, those sticks sounds just about perfect.

coming from im103s and exploders and 182 4FRNT VCTs, id say the ski you most definitely want is the 186 LP (not the newer vintage)

the VCT skied very similarly to the 180 Explosiv, except maybe a bit shorter. I also didnt like the propotioning on the ski and always felt the tip was fighting the rest of the ski and the ski just didnt have enough tail. Very snowlerbladery and planky (though not as planky as the explosives)

The LPs will have the dampness of your im103s, be about 2-3 times easier to ski in tight trees and bumps, float better than either the 180 V-Ex, 183im103, or 182 VCT, have better edgehold than the VCT (but not the others), and be the most playful on hardpack due to its generous sidecut (~28m).

[Ottime]

The LPs will float better than... the 182 VCT

That part I can not agree to. The VCT with its girth, soft nose and near 0 camber floats way more than the LP, which just wants to drive through everything. At least in my experience. I love my LPs, but hardly ever want them when there is fresh snow - unless it is dust on crust.

[njfreeskier]

the vcts are great. super stable, float very well in the fresh, pretty bomber bases and edges, hold an edge pretty well on hardpack, can carve some nice gs turns, ski well switch, pretty light, good in the air. my only complaint, if i want to be super picky is that they are kind of damp, and could have a little more pop in them. a very well rounded ski.

[pechelman]

That part I can not agree to. The VCT with its girth, soft nose and near 0 camber floats way more than the LP, which just wants to drive through everything. At least in my experience. I love my LPs, but hardly ever want them when there is fresh snow - unless it is dust on crust.

for me it was about the shovel profile and lack of length that i didnt care for how the VCT skied in pow in comparison to the LP. i wouldnt also classify a VCT as soft nosed.

the tips on my LPs are also fairly compliant and due to its proportioning, presents a "magic number" of sorts where the tip can really take over and help initiate turns

this is my take, and certainly its due to different skiing styles and preferences

[Meathelmet]

coming from im103s and exploders and 182 4FRNT VCTs, id say the ski you most definitely want is the 186 LP (not the newer vintage)

the VCT skied very similarly to the 180 Explosiv, except maybe a bit shorter. I also didnt like the propotioning on the ski and always felt the tip was fighting the rest of the ski and the ski just didnt have enough tail. Very snowlerbladery and planky (though not as planky as the explosives)

The LPs will have the dampness of your im103s, be about 2-3 times easier to ski in tight trees and bumps, float better than either the 180 V-Ex, 183im103, or 182 VCT, have better edgehold than the VCT (but not the others), and be the most playful on hardpack due to its generous sidecut (~28m).

cheers!

Yup.Never had any problems to ski the im103s in tight spots,making jumpturns or anything. The only gripes comes here in europe on slopes with other people on them (wich in most places you have to deal with,either going or getting from sweet stuff). You either you slarve around 80s style or risk your neck and try to carve among people with 37m turning radius...Just not fun.

So now in search for a ski that would be nice on the slopes as well,not only in crud and cookies.I allready have a dedicated powsticks so this ski would be hard/windbuff/allaround ski.

So the old LegendPros (orange/white w.tip protector?) have a turning radius of 28m in 186 and width 97mm? 05-06?
LPs are so fucking confusing as it seems they have been changing stuff all the time and trying to find the right stick from the webstores is meeeeh..

Btw,anyone seen the old LPs in 186 in some webstores?

[angelinalove]

Great ski, little big for groomers.

[Ottime]

cheers!



So now in search for a ski that would be nice on the slopes as well,not only in crud and cookies.I allready have a dedicated powsticks so this ski would be hard/windbuff/allaround ski.

The the LP definitely fits the bill.

[pechelman]

yea, any of the orange surfboard ones from this first 2 or 3 years and the past 2 years with the black\orange more gothic looking ones will fit the bill
so basically the past 4-5 years of skis have all been pretty much the same except for the fact where theyve been made (raceroom vs not)

i cant recommend or comment on the new ones at all with the 184cm length labeling and the 100mm waist as ive never seen, touched, or skied them

Another ski you MIGHT want to consider is the new Head 102 which was made a bit softer and with a larger shovel.
it has me interested

[Meathelmet]

yea, any of the orange surfboard ones from this first 2 or 3 years and the past 2 years with the black\orange more gothic looking ones will fit the bill
so basically the past 4-5 years of skis have all been pretty much the same except for the fact where theyve been made (raceroom vs not)

i cant recommend or comment on the new ones at all with the 184cm length labeling and the 100mm waist as ive never seen, touched, or skied them

Another ski you MIGHT want to consider is the new Head 102 which was made a bit softer and with a larger shovel.
it has me interested

Yup.Thats what I realized as well.Just that browsing through the old LP threads it seemed that no one knew when they changed what. Like the first batch (04-05) delamed,the next batch changed in flex and got rivets,the next changed graphs and now something.And this years are wider,softer in tip and has more sidecut? Damn,you would need a wiki for the sticks...

The new im102s are apparently the same sticks that the "last" years? at least overheard someone say so( a bit softer than the 04-05 that i have) but the measurements and radius should be the same? 37m for the 183cm.
So...meh...

But pechel,you didnt dig the VCT compared to the LP? Like for hard/buff snow romping and stuff? Couldnt be "the" ski for me?

[pechelman]

as far as i know, the core and base have been the same for those early years. really theyre fairly similar.
i might have missed the issues about delam though. (you thinking about topsheet chipping ala dps or early iggy?)

the new ones have more tip sidecut i think and the wider waist and shorter length and softer flex (apparently much softer)

the im102s, from what ive read and seen, are identical in everyway to the im103/supermojo/mojo103 ski except for the fact the shovel was made softer and bigger (more tip upturn)

I liked the VCT, it wasnt a bad ski by any means.
The only place I really really enjoyed that ski was on a soft snow base with soft snow ontop.
It could have been the tune or my mount location (about -2.5cm from FR or ~-9 from Chord Center), but the tip always felt super hooky and the tail a bit too eager to slide and release. (the tune was fingernail sharp tip to tail). They also have a fairly short effective edge, so they felt shorter than the 180 explosivs i got rid of prior to them, and was disappointed in that as I wanted MORE edge. The VCT is also fairly light, and as such, I felt it got thrown around a good bit, and due to the hooky\inconsistent edge grip near the tip, only stood to exacerbate the perceived instabilitiy issues i felt the ski had. The flex pattern was progressive, starting from around a 5 in the tip, to about a 6-7 underfoot, to about a 6 in the tail. Even being so, I felt the tip was a bit too stiff given the amount of shovel infront of me. Id definitely not consider this a pow day ski for me, given my style, and size, which I think says a lot, considering how well the 186 Legend Pro's tips seem to plane and rise up to the surface for me.

So I think it could work, but given you're coming from im103s and explosivs, I think a 182 VCT will feel a bit planky, snowlerblady, and unstable in variable snow conditions, and maybe not all that great on hardpack if you have the same issues i did with tip hookiness. I gave these skis about 8 days before I sold them, and now a friend of mine who I ski with regularly, is very happy on them.

Ill also note, construction seems to be bomber save for a bit of topsheet chippage.

If you're still on the VCT train, maybe consider the larger size 190/189.

honestly though, the first ski I skied after getting rid of my mojos103s was my 186 legend pros
the first turns i made on them, I thought to myself, "wow, this thing is playful!"
then I mached through some crud, "holy shit, these things are like cadillacs, I would have gotten bucked to hell back there on the mojos"
then I straightlined some hard icy runout, "not as stable as the mojos, but good enough"

[Jiehkevarri]

You either you slarve around 80s style or risk your neck and try to carve among people with 37m turning radius...Just not fun.

Or learn to bend the ski in an arc and turn...

And/or gain some more bulk to do it...

JONG


.
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.
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Just kidding of course. I know what you mean. I guess the (older) LP's would work great. Also, I'd tried a bit softer ski like Seth 179 cm (if I were you)...maybe even the new osSETHed?

[Meathelmet]

Or learn to bend the ski in an arc and turn...

And/or gain some more bulk to do it...

JONG



Just kidding of course. I know what you mean. I guess the (older) LP's would work great. Also, I'd tried a bit softer ski like Seth 179 cm (if I were you)...maybe even the new osSETHed?

Heyyy there,fucker!!! Dont you come and diss my arcs,the are like two fucking trenches!! Like tank tracks!

Or something...

Have skied a bit with the newer seths and didnt like them at all. Obsethed was meh allso,but a bit better. Just dont like that kind (that much shovel and sidecut and the flex pattern?) of sticks that much,I guess?

How is your neck,btw? Gonna see you more on the slopes in the coming winter?

[Jiehkevarri]

Neck is allright I guess:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXcugFVuQnc

(This is from the 2006/2007 though...but no problems, as long I stretch enough and keep reasonable breaks between sessions)

I've skied as much I can...with the family possibilities are just a bit more limited. Lapland, smaller Austria resorts are the key in the next years probably?

Ok with the Seths etc., I understand - but for me it seems that the added sidecut and a bit softer doesn't create any problems at all (and just watched a video of a friend skiing Couloir Ouest in Cham with dynafit-mounted Hippy Stinx...looked like the sticks worked very well! Anyway, personal preferences...)

EDIT: Sorry hi-jack...let's move on to the actual topic again. MH - send me a PM, I have some (other) questions as well

[Ottime]

Too add to pechelmans VCT comments.

For what you state that you want, the VCT does not look like the ski. It works fine on the hard pack, but not great. I loved it in any type of soft snow - packed, crud, fresh. I had my ski mounted more forward than pechelman, which would provide a longer tail for more hold, less slide. I think it also helped with the hookiness of the nose.

Still, it does not hold an edge on hardpack anything like my LP. The VCT is 7mm wider, but with slightly more sidecut. You need to really lean it over. While I do not love the LP in powder, it does perform. I actually preferred the VCT for a number of reasons. Seeing you have a dedicated powder ski, this is not really to point.

Side by side in firm, packed and hardpacked snow, the LP out performs the VCT. The VCT still can do it all from my experience, but it will depend on your style.

[njfreeskier]

i haven't skied any recent vintage lp's so i can't compare but i loved the vct in all conditions. i think where it shined was clearly in soft snow. but i've skied them on east coast packed powder and they held an edge pretty well. was able to turn em on there sides and carve nice gs turns. I used to race, and to me they felt like a less snappy gs ski. i swapped them for a few runs with one of my racer friends who only carves when he skis regardless of conditions, and he loved them, and was able to lean them even further over than me. it could be the tune 1/2 base, 2 side. i thought they were really manageable in all conditions as well, and hardly ever got tossed, except in super chopped up crud, and I weigh 160. from what i've read, i agree, the lp might be the better ski for you, but the vct can definitely more than hold its on, in all conditions.

[MNposterChild]

Anyone tried them in the park? landing switch? Right now I have some TNK's which I love, but I'd rather have my own powder ski for hitting up the UP and trips out west. Needless to say, living in MN I have to be pretty passionate with the park and would love a ski that was decent in the park. Last spring I lost my hand-me up 167 or so fujatives on the first BC run in JH so I got to try out some different skis. First day was 193 Gotamas, heard great things about them but hated them. Not sure if it was because of the size or mounting position but they were hard to transition to on kickers. I see a few of you say the VCT is basically a gotama, but I'm thinking with a slightly smaller size like 182 they may make me a lot happier than the oversized gotamas. I can get a good proform deal on the VCT's, so do I?

[njfreeskier]

^^^^

do it. they are great in the park. Eric Hjorliefson uses them as his park ski, as do several other 4frnt riders. They are great in the air, and due to a fairly raised tail, they ski pretty well switch. It is a great all around ski, and is very stable. Not a ton of pop, as they are very damp, but definitely enough if you load them up. Great in the pow, great in the park(for a fatter ski), great going backwards (and forwards). Proform them, at worst you will sell them at the end of the season. 08/09 model addressed the issue of topsheet chipping like whoa!

[F.D.V.]

VCT 182 is an excellent quiver de uno ski!

I will say this after riding them for about three weeks now. They are, as Pechelman said, a little planky feeling but then again I am not the greatest skier so what I might be noticing is just straight bad form. They are, as it has been said, bomber in construction. I hit a rock yesterday at Wolf Creek and ripped a section of base out that was .5"x4" and it didnt do much damage to the base. At first I thought, "Man, that is some weak construction" then I remembered that I was in the middle of a turn on a 55 degree chute...what else was going to happen!

I really like the VCT 182...but then again, I also like my BD Verdicts.

To each his own...demo some and see what you think.

Ditto on the topsheet chipping comment!

[ABODOX33]

I just bought the 2009 VCT and have used it as my quiver this year. I must say, I'm pretty happy with them! I mounted a pair of Fritschi Freerides and also use these as my backcountry set up. They are great to tour in, and it has been great to be able to rip big steep powder lines with this ski. My last set-up were not the best powder skis, but they were light making touring nice. I have been able to kill it in every terrain on these skis (except for moguls). But just by looking at the dimensions, you could've guessed that right?!? I would highly recommend these as a great all around ripper to add to your arsenal. Might not be the best ski you could possibly have for the 24" blower days, but they kick ass! My un-used Rossi S7's are still waiting for that big storm here in MT!

[JoshP]

Bump because I just got a pair of 182 VCTs on Tramdock, and I am stoked. They are replacing my day glow 180 sploders as my it ain't a deep day ski (I have Megawatts for those days). Going to mount them alpine (Mojo 15's) as my touring quiver is all set, although I have a feeling they would be freaking sweet with Dynafits.

I think they will be a perfect non-pow day ski for the cottonwoods. I was looking for something similar to the S3 (which I demoed last winter and really liked) and for $299, I couldn't pass them up. Can't wait to get on them.