Ski companies manufacturing in China?

[Robson1]

I know that K2 has shifted production of their skis to China, and I think Line has also. Do you guys know of any other companies moving their manufacturing to China?

[El Chupacabra]

Dynastar and Salomon are outsourcing all their ski production (not boot or binding) to Chi-Jong Hwang, Jianxi province.

[aussieskier3]

both are true...and line is part of k2

[focus]

A better question is: Who hasn't outsourced manufacturing to China or similar?

You'd get a shorter list; and a paper on who hasn't, why, and how it's working out for them would be much more interesting.

[CaddyDaddy77]

Dynastar and Salomon are outsourcing all their ski production (not boot or binding) to Chi-Jong Hwang, Jianxi province.

Does that include Atomic low end or all?

Scotty Bob Too?
http://www.evolvingexcellence.com/bl...g_for_a_n.html

Thought Line was Taiwan?

[pharmer]

my volkl skis came included with a "made in china" sticker attached

[Robson1]

Wow, there are more companies than I thought, so Volkl to eh? Is there a list anywhere where I can find out what companies are involved in business in China?

[mortimer]

I thought Salomon skis were coming from Romania? Disappointed to see volkl go to China immediately after K2 bought them.

[ExoticSkis]

Blue House

[SpinalTap]

My latest Head Monsters had a big "Made in Austria" stamped on them, and the quality was complete crap. Sent them back for warranty after less than 5 days on the snow. The edge and base separated under the heal and the sidewalls were already showing a lot of wear. These were skis that I received off of warranty after cracking the sidewalls of my last pair.

Any country is capable of producing crappy product (obviously), I wonder if the inverse is true? People are quick to slam China for poor manufacturing standards (me included), but perhaps this thread could lead to a different conclusion.

Example: My brothers K2 PEs have held up to a few seasons of abuse, whereas my family and friends have been blowing through Heads and Stocklis.

[adrenalated]

My latest Head Monsters had a big "Made in Austria" stamped on them, and the quality was complete crap. Sent them back for warranty after less than 5 days on the snow. The edge and base separated under the heal and the sidewalls were already showing a lot of wear. These were skis that I received off of warranty after cracking the sidewalls of my last pair.

Any country is capable of producing crappy product (obviously), I wonder if the inverse is true? People are quick to slam China for poor manufacturing standards (me included), but perhaps this thread could lead to a different conclusion.

Example: My brothers K2 PEs have held up to a few seasons of abuse, whereas my family and friends have been blowing through Heads and Stocklis.

There are plenty of reasons to oppose outsourcing of manufacturing to China other than quality. For example, China has surpassed the US as the largest producer of carbon dioxide - and are increasing said production very rapidly - and has very little environmental regulation in place.

[Voltron]

Is there a list anywhere where I can find out what companies are involved in business in China?

Aside from the small custom ski makers, it's pretty safe to assume that all major ski manufacturers have some degree of Chinese business interests.

[focus]

The chinese are good at what they do. If what they produced was total shit they wouldn't enjoy the success that they have.

I don't think that necessarily has to be the implication of every one of these threads.

[dookeyXXX]

as far as i know only certain Volkl models are made in China.

The M-Rock is still made in Germany. I think the Mantra is too.

Most of them say "Made In Germany" if they are. I think they don't say anything on the top sheets if they are not.

Karhu is made in China (they are part of K2).

I believe Liberty are made in China (at least some models)

I actually think the list of skis NOT made in China would be pretty long.

Pretty sure these are all made either in EU or NA:

PM Gear (Nevada/Switzerland)
AK (Switzerland)
Blizzard (Germany)
Armada (Slovenia?)
Praxis (Cali)
Moment (Nevada)
Movement (Switzerland)
Elan (Slovenia)
Fatypus (Colo)
4Frnt (Canada/EU?)
Prior (Canada)
Rossi (I believe still France and some in Spain)
Ninth Ward (EU?)
Faction (Switzerland?)
Zag (France)

and a bunch of other smallish companies (too many to list).


of course if you're talking MAJOR manufacturers, then I thought it was only K2 (Line, Karhu, portions of Volkl) for the most part. Not sure about Dynastar, Salomon, Fischer, Head, etc.


As stated above, this could be a interesting development. I remember when people balked about Volkswagons being made in Mexico. And also folks tripping when Toyota started making cars/trucks in the US (still using Japanese parts, though, so they were just assembling them here).

thing of it is, even if you're skis aren't made in China chances are your helmet, gloves, and outlayers are.

I think it's still easy to buy skis not made in China, but increasingly hard to buy clothing and other ski gear that isn't.

[angler99]

NinthWard, Bluehouse, DPS, and Scotty Bob are all China.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Blizzards are made in Austria. Armadas are made in the Atomic factory in AUSTRIA.

[Mani_UT]

PM Gear (Nevada/Switzerland)
AK (Switzerland)
Blizzard (Germany)
Armada (Slovenia?)
Praxis (Cali)
Moment (Nevada)
Movement (Switzerland)
Elan (Slovenia)
Fatypus (Colo)
4Frnt (Canada/EU?)
Prior (Canada)
Rossi (I believe still France and some in Spain)
Ninth Ward (EU?)
Faction (Switzerland?)
Zag (France).

This is neat. I love to know where my stuff is made. whether I choose to buy it or not is another decision.

Here is more:

Surface skis (Austria)
Rossis are indeed all France (Z, bandits) and Spain (scracthes) altough it seems they are moving the kid stuff to china.
Black Diamond (China)

[Sublime]

4FRNT, Elan, and Nordica are all made in the same factory in Slovenia.

For most major brands the entry level stuff is made in China but the higher end goods are still made somewhere in Europe.

I never really understood why people are always bitching about ski manufacturers moving to China. Everyone minus K2 was made over in Europe to begin with so it's not like were losing jobs.

[dookeyXXX]

"4FRNT, Elan, and Nordica"

ah, that's where I got confused. Thought Armada was part of the whole Elan deal.

And yeah, my geographical skills suck. you would think i would know that Blizzards are made in Austria since I own a pair of Titan 9's (which say "conceived in the US, made in Austria" on the top sheet).

i think the general reasoning behind this (and this is a topic that's more or less been ground to death here and over at Epic) is that there's this mystique about Europe and it being the birthplace of skiing (though one recent thread i stumbled across actually had an account of skis being discovered in China that pre-dated any that have been found in Scandinavia or Europe). there's the whole "craftsmanship" thing, with visions of your skis being handmade in some quaint ski village by a stoop backed gent named Hans who was born with skis on his feet and poles in his hands.

i think the image of underpaid Chinese workers cranking out skis on an assembly line isn't as mystical.

also there's all the problems that other products (food, children's toys, etc) imported from China have had, which tends to taint the image of anyh product from that country.

my only experience was when Line first moved productions to China it set the shipments of Prophets back a bit. Also a large batch of them had delam problems. The only way I know this is that I was trying forever to demo Line skis back in 2005 and very few shops had them because of this.

I've been a life-long Rossi skier and in 2005 switched to Volkl. Mid-season I got turned on to the vast number of smaller ski companies and eventually ended up revamping the quiver with AK's. The biggest company ski i own is a Blizzard and even by major manufacturer standards they aren't that huge (probably more along the lines of Stockli, I believe).

A lot of it is coolness factor....it's nice to have a set of sticks that every other gaper on the hill doesn't have. but a lot of it is supporting the smaller guy. Not to mention the customer service on the smaller brands is usually much better, I've found.

Anyway, to each their own.

And thanks for setting me straight on Austria vs. Germany!

[Core Shot]

JONG???

FYI, there is a great thread already where all the sources of manufacture have been discussed and noted.

[Bertier]

Movement (Switzerland)

Actually based in Switzerland, but skis made in Tunisia.... Exotic, I know.

[dookeyXXX]

FYI, there is a great thread already where all the sources of manufacture have been discussed and noted.

Link to said thread?

This was the best I could find, but even it is filled with contradictory data.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...kis+made+china

I think things get confusing with all the mergers and shifts, not to mention small companies (Line, 4Frnt, Armada) eventually getting bigger and looking for better distribution.

What's worse is that some of these small companies tout that they are "made" or "based" or "created" or "conceived" in Utah or Colorado but their skis are made in China. If you're going to go out of your way to hype that your company is based in one of the great ski epicenters of the known, free world, then why not have your skis made there, as well? I'm not gonna point fingers, but it's not hard to pick out some of these "small" companies that tout where they are from but have their skis outsourced.

I mean when was the last time you bought something that touted it was created in China but was made in Scotland?

I'm actually curious to keep an eye on PM Gear, Moment, and Praxis to see where they go. PM has already teamed up with AK, but wonder if any of these quick growing small companies have considered/looked into moving operations "overseas" if they get to a point where they outgrow their current base of operations. I would imagine that this is something every small manufacturer needs to keep in the back of their mind. I mean Scotty Bob isn't a massive company, but apparantly they have their basic skis manufactured overseas. Ditto for both Liberty and Bluehouse. These are small businesses and in some cases start-ups. What propels someone like Liberty or Bluehouse to go overseas but someone like PM Gear to remain local?

[Core Shot]

Link to said thread?

This was the best I could find, but even it is filled with contradictory data.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...kis+made+china

Umm, yeah, that thread from way back in September.

It has data on every ski brand.

I was just amazed that a jong could register today, start a thread asking about a topic that was asked and answered already, and then have a bunch of wannabe experts go on and on at great length attempting to show how much they think they know.

carry on, carrying jong water, jongy jongathon

[focus]

I think things get confusing with all the mergers and shifts, not to mention small companies (Line, 4Frnt, Armada) eventually getting bigger and looking for better distribution.

What's worse is that some of these small companies tout that they are "made" or "based" or "created" or "conceived" in Utah or Colorado but their skis are made in China. If you're going to go out of your way to hype that your company is based in one of the great ski epicenters of the known, free world, then why not have your skis made there, as well? I'm not gonna point fingers, but it's not hard to pick out some of these "small" companies that tout where they are from but have their skis outsourced.

I mean when was the last time you bought something that touted it was created in China but was made in Scotland?

Producing the skis isn't their core activity. Shit, designing them barely is. These are small businesses who don't have the resources to not go with the lowest, highest quality bidder, much less vertically integrate. It's just production, dude. Wtf's the difference between down the street, across the state, across the country, or across the globe?

Economically you've no case and no point. If you want to bitch about it, ethically you might have some basis -- as adrenalated points out. Of course, that would require these companies to take some sort of stance on human rights or the environment or some such...

[dookeyXXX]

i guess the point is that you wouldn't want to be getting your Wisconsin Cheddar from Transylvania.

i guess i just don't understand why somebody would start a company in say Utah and then immediately outsource everything to China?

might as well have started the company in China.

also, if producing and designing the skis aren't their core activity, then what is? are some of these small companies fronts or something?

as for having no case and no point, i wasn't trying to establish one or make one. I was just thinking out loud. and more curious as to what propels a small company to outsource from the get-go or shortly after establishing themselves.

i know from talking with Tyrone that PM Gear went with AK to meet increased demands on their production. I'm sure they could very easily have gone the Chinese route, but they didn't.

i also understand basic economics and the whole supply/demand...if your demand exceeds your production capabilities then it behoves you to search out more economical and efficient production (hence, i would assume, many a company's move overseas).

the ethical stance you bring up is equally intriguing.

i can't say that i buy skis with ethics in mind. if i did then i'd be more selective in the outer wear i was buying and all the other trappings (most of which are made overseas these days).

what was my point again? oh yeah, i didn't really have one. I'm just more or less pulling a Jack Elliot.

all apologies for that.