tgr avalanche slander?

**3pin** · 08-04-2004, 03:56 PM

http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/v...49403&start=45

a guy from rockclimbing's forum is talking about a film shoot cover-up of an avalanche. his own credibility is being questioned by some there, but not much evidence of anything. this could be a nasty story either way...

edit: also receiving press at ttips, http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=20815

**Yossarian** · 08-04-2004, 04:03 PM

cover up? There was a slide filmed that a couple riders admitted afterward was stupid to have triggered, but I do believe it was a part of a TV feature or something, not at all covered up...and I'm not even sure that it was tgr

do I have my facts straight? Why don't we ask Owens or The Suit or someone in the TGR office...

These are the TGR forums, after all.

Post in the forum called ASK TGR, maybe???

**iceman** · 08-04-2004, 04:06 PM

That guy ouinardin, or whatever the hell it is, is almost incoherent. I don't think he said it was a TGR shoot, though, did he? Just that a guy who skied for TGR named Tom died.

Either way, I call bullshit. What did they do with the body?

**Mountainman** · 08-04-2004, 04:14 PM

He says you could PM him for the number.

Or since hes from Bozeman somebody could just drop by his house and ask

**3pin** · 08-04-2004, 04:14 PM

Believe me, I have my doubts, and a lot of them. I posted it here to get the attention of The Suit or Owens, because I thought TGR might be interested that they're being accused of this. I'll post it in Ask TGR, too. It's pretty negative press that they're going to want to actively counter if it's not true. The story's hard to understand, and I hope it's not true.

He does name TGR in his post on rc, saying this:

"We decided (TGR and others) at the time of the incident to just drive to Bozeman and get the hell out of Idaho. Why? I don't remember. I was not exactly sober by the time we arrived. I do understand your point about reporting it to CSAC among others, but that was not my decision or a good time in my career to do so. I did'nt know what the hell was going on. It was not something that needed to be made public. I disagreed but kept my mouth shut. We all have. It was printed in Tom's local newspaper and to the proper authorities as having happened "somewhere in the Bitteroots". Skiing and TGR were not mentioned. The reasoning behind this, at the time, made sense to us. I'm honestly not trying to be an asshole. You would have to be in my boots trying to make it in a few movies etc. to fully understand, plus Tom was gone.
Contact TGR and you will get the same info, if any. It depends on who you know. We happen to know the right people I guess.There are slides everywhere that kill and are not reported. Probably happen to me one day. Insurance reasons, film releases etc., I don't know. I can think of 3 in Montana that were never reported. Seeing that you are an experienced alpinist as well, I would be willing to speak with you in detail about this. Not everything can be found through a "search engine" and like I said above, it was out of my control and I was out of my mind."

**Yossarian** · 08-04-2004, 04:38 PM

actually, I'm not really even sure now that I've read all that what the issue is. I don't mean to be blase, not at all. Sounds like a guy died, and that is truly awful. He was somebody's son, maybe somebody's husband, maybe somebody's dad.

But skiers who ski with TGR certainly know what risks they are exposing themselves to in this day and age. I've been around photo shoots and film shoots a few times, and I've NEVER seen a crew pressure a skier into doing anything - if anything, it's the skiers own demons that they have to fight.

Point being, with risks being known, and it not being a case of TGR throwing me on skis and pushing me down the mountain, where's the scandal, exactly?

So, maybe something horrendous happened and they didn't want to report it. Okay, that's their call. The people involved had to tell the family and friends something, and it was reported in the local paper...so...where's the cover up?

Again, it's a bad deal, don't get me wrong. But if one of my buddies goes in an avy, don't be expecting me to run to the press either. And no, I'm not so sure that it having happened while ski filming or shooting has any relevance, unless a pattern of risk-taking or pressure behavior were at play with the company in question, which seems highly unlikely.

I guess that would be the only truly scandalous thing, yes? If it turned out that TGR or someone had told a skier that they had to ski something, and then the skier was killed as a result.

But that would never happen. The film crews don't make the decision, the guides, and ultimately, the skiers do.

So what scandal remains? Well, I suppose if the media got a hold of it in a larger sense, there might be another uproar about the dangers of extreme skiing and backcountry skiing, as there was after the Canadian slides of last season. I guess that would be something.

But I'm not seeing scandal, and I'm not seeing slander.

I see, until someone helps my out of my misunderstanding, a horrible situation that no one wanted to talk about.

Did I miss something in the threads?

**homerjay** · 08-04-2004, 04:43 PM

Seems to me that people are upset it wasn't reported to CSAC and subsequently included in the statistics. You're right, the people who had to know, know.

No slander as far as I can see.

The only question I would bring up is if TGR is obligated to do a press release if one of their athletes' lives is tragically cut short. I'd think it's nobody's business save the people involved.

**snorkeldeep** · 08-04-2004, 04:48 PM

sounds like all hes saying is that his bro Tom skiied for TGR at some point in time - not that they were on a shoot.

**iceman** · 08-04-2004, 04:49 PM

Does anybody know, or has anyone heard of, a skier named Tom who was in TGR flicks and who has now mysteriously disapeared?

Me neither.

It could be true but I doubt it.

13 · 08-04-2004, 04:49 PM

Ahem ... the way that's written, TGR could either be someone's initials or Teton Gravity Research.

The context of "TGR" in that quote isn't exactly clear. It mentions film releases further down, but I dunno.

**Yossarian** · 08-04-2004, 04:55 PM

no, it sounds like it was at least partly a TGR shoot, but that makes no difference to me unless TGR were being accused of being negligent or encouraging extra risky behavior.

I think homer is right, the issue would be that an incident went unreported to CSAC.

**ActionJackson** · 08-04-2004, 06:07 PM

Yo Fellas

I have not heard of anything of the sort and I have been working here at TGR for a bunch of years. We run across avi action all the time but this is when we call it and go home. Fortunately, no deaths within the fam damnly.

Thanks for checking in on us though.

Later
ActionJackson

**sarge1957** · 08-04-2004, 06:16 PM

OK, I can clear this one up. As the Lead Guide for TGR I can unequivocally say we have never had an avalanche fatalty filming, scouting, or otherwise at a film location. We have also never had a fatal trauma accident. So i have no idea what this dude is talking about.

My thanks to those of you who questioned the authenticity of this report. Anyone who has followed TGR's history knows that the boys (founding partners Dirk, Todd, Cory, Steve)) are fully commited to reducing the risks for all their athletes, crew, and general public. No one else in the industry spends the money and time on checking out snowpack and lines like TGR.

Anyone with more info on this, or any general safety questions, email me at sarge@aros.net and I'll be happy to help you out.

**ActionJackson** · 08-04-2004, 06:20 PM

Yes. Listen to Sarge.

Oudinardin whoever, is out of his mind.

**HotTate** · 08-04-2004, 06:39 PM

I cant believe you would ever doubt someone on a forum!!!! What's wrong with you people? I work at TGR and I believe him!! For fuck sake, we're involved in all types of coverups. Jimmy Hoffa, the rigging of the 2000 election, we even named one of our movies Area 51. You guys think we're kidding about our athletes being aliens?

**cluster** · 08-04-2004, 06:40 PM

word up action jackson

**ActionJackson** · 08-04-2004, 06:43 PM

Now we have some guy HotTate claiming he works at TGR.
Who is this guy. Ignore him.

**cluster** · 08-04-2004, 06:51 PM

Nice Pull Action Jackson-

How the hell did that kid come up with the name Hot Tate?

**phUnk** · 08-04-2004, 06:56 PM

I, too, work at TGR.

**Dexter Rutecki** · 08-04-2004, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by phUnk
I, too, work at TGR.

I still regret hiring you. Get back to work!

**supercow** · 08-04-2004, 06:59 PM

sounds to me like the worst kind of Troll

that kind of garbage is just uncalled for

**Yossarian** · 08-04-2004, 06:59 PM

heh.

thanks boys, and thanks Sarge in particular for laying it down.

I always give people the benefit of the doubt to begin with, after all, I'm a real person, and I've never made up stories on posted them as truth on an internet forum...

but yeah, we ALL know TGR is committed to solid risk management procedures and practices, and furthermore, the athletes and guides involved in shooting with TGR are as careful and cognizant as can be in the environments you work in.

So it's nice to hear it from the horses mouth, as it were. Er...not that you're a horse Sarge. That didn't come out right. Reeally, it's the 8 beers, I swear. So, how about them Cubs?

See you in Jackson.

**phUnk** · 08-04-2004, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by Dexter Rutecki
I still regret hiring you. Get back to work!

It's all been cleared with frozenwater. So, take it up with him.

**Dexter Rutecki** · 08-04-2004, 07:01 PM

Frozenwater? He doesn't work here, I know that.

**3pin** · 08-04-2004, 07:15 PM

Thanks for stepping in... like I said, I had a number of doubts about the claim, especially given TGR's reputation of avy education in the recent years.

Surprising that someone would troll like that on the internet? No. Sad that they would? Yes.