Praxis on snow -- finally

[frorider]

subtitle: Praxis -- the other hand-made ripping ski.

Met Keith last spring at Mammy, got to talking about his new Praxis powder shapes and ideas, and on a hot day in October we arranged a Reno rendezvous so i could pick up some reverse-camber/sidecut goodness. vert lam construction, thick edges, sweet base grind finish, and an updated version of the basic spat design --- i was ready for some october and november sierra blower.

which didn't happen. so my praxis skis gathered dust as i posted, PM'd, and emailed to spread the word about these hand-built limited production skis. Praxis became a known option on the forums, and i hadn't even made a turn on mine. the irony was getting to me.

so this week i mounted them up (telebindings, natch.) and found 3 hours free on a workday to head to the only resort 5 mins from here -- heavenly.

i figured the manmade snow and variable groomers, and long traverses that heavenly is famous for, would be a good test. along with hitting some carefully selected powder patches.

parallel turns on all kinds of firm snow were cake. i thought there'd be more of a learning curve, but i just pressured the middle and tail sections and it was all good. as day went on, figured out how to make decent tele turns on the hardpack. avoiding extreme angulation is key. skating on slightly uphill cat tracks was straightforward.

found all kinds of powder to hit, but usually just got in 4 or 5 turns before i had to negotiate the next log or boulder. so i haven't hit mach 11 yet on them, but so far they feel stellar in the soft. tele or parallel. you just slide into the next turn. did not notice any deflection in the cut-up stashes. found some serrated wind buff and hit mach 10....skis felt damp and solid. i'm a head m103 / atomic BD fan (cheerleader?), so damp smooveness is important to me. i'm pretty sure the praxis will deliver what i need there. the waist of the ski is around 12 inches ahead of your foot; not once did i feel an over-the-bars feeling, despite the relatively forward mount location (i've heard some complain about this on spats).

so thumbs up based on one half-day of skiing on a thin base. PM me if you want more info, or want to borrow my skis in tahoe or mammoth.

storm's heading our way...

[frorider]

p.s. rode the chairlift with a guy on Bro's. told him i had the brostiffs -- he said he was mounting his praxis skis that night. turned out to be a fellow mag - blood sweat steel.

[The Dad]

Man, if I could just rationalize the however-much-Keith-is-charging-for-them-these-days....

[SafteySquad]

Man, if I could just rationalize the however-much-Keith-is-charging-for-them-these-days....

$550... I'm debating it as well

[bagtagley]

I'm curious, how much does stiffness matter on a ski like this? More specifically, does a stiff non-conventional have the same demands as a stiff conventional ski?

[El Chupacabra]

p.s. rode the chairlift with a guy on Bro's. told him i had the brostiffs -- he said he was mounting his praxis skis that night. turned out to be a fellow mag - blood sweat steel.

BSS and I mounted his Praxis skis last night with S900s. I got to fondle the skis and compare them side-by-side with the Spatulas that I own.

The Praxis skis look very well built: there is no indication they are a homemade-type ski. Edges are nice & thick (and sharp), bases have nice structure, sidewalls/ topsheets/ etc look nicely aligned and solidly together. Tips & tails have 2 rivets each, like some K2 skis (nice touch). BSS said the centerline mark on the two skis actually matched up with each other, which even the big factories can't accomplish at times.

Holding the Praxis next to the Spatula: these are the same ski, except: (a) Praxis is 1cm wider throughout, and (b) Praxis weighs a lot (and I mean a lot) less. The two skis mirror each other in length (Praxis maybe 1cm shorter).

What I was most interested in was how similar they were in the reverse camber: they are exactly the same, eyeballed base-to-base. It's almost as if the Spatula was used as a mold to make the Praxis.

If I didn't have Spatulas, I'd buy the Praxis. I'd bet they ski exactly the same, with the added benefit of (likely) stronger construction, and significantly less weight.

For weight comparison: my Spatulas have Salomon 997 Equipes; BSS' Praxis now have Salomon S900 Equipe. I guesstimate the Praxis w/ bindings will weigh 3-4 lbs less than the Spatulas w/ bindings.

Oh, and the camo graphics are a lot less ugly in person than in the photos. Some all-black ones would be sweet...

[frorider]

it's more a question of snow (heavy vs light pow) and speed.

i prefer a ski that is stiff enough overall that it pushes the snow around rather than the other way around. but the tip/forebody should be a little less stiff and/or shaped or rockered back such that it wants to plane well.

i'm not a fan of super soft fatties (sanouk) because in dense deep pow at speed i don't need a ski that reverse-cambers so easily, but YMMV.

an inverse camber ski is not hugely different in that regard.

in a way, the first runs of the praxis skis were scaled-up prototypes---i.e. figuring out how to make the ski consistently in-spec. so the price was a bit lower as you'd expect (but mine look perfect and don't have a proto look), and those buyers were in a way taking a chance on a new ski that had almost no reviews. AFAIK now that more are being made, the standard price is $550 and won't change, but i haven't asked Keith recently. pmgear followed the same general pricing logic (i.e. have gone up in price as they got beyond the small initial runs). it's not like pat or keith are gorging on hookers and blow every night thanks to the millions they are earning.

i think any price around 500 is good compared to the other limited-production skis out there (700 - 1,000+). Psychologically a price of $495 sounds a lot cheaper than $550. the market will decide eh?

[frorider]

el C---the waist of the praxis is farther forward than on the spat, if i recall Keith's statements correctly. i don't have a spat handy to make an exact comparison.

but they are MUCH lighter fer sure.

my praxis skis came in around 10.5 lbs i think.

[El Chupacabra]

el C---the waist of the praxis is farther forward than on the spat, if i recall Keith's statements correctly. i don't have a spat handy to make an exact comparison.

but they are MUCH lighter fer sure.

my praxis skis came in around 10.5 lbs i think.

Interesting. I didn't notice the waist location when eyeballing the skis held together. The Spatula design could benefit from a "progressive" style sidecut; i.e., a bit more width in front of the foot than behind the foot.

The A line (mounting point for boot center) marked on the Praxis is in exactly the same spot as on Spatula, FWIW.

[MTT]

I look forward to hearing more about these skis. Right off I like the little guy local shop, had made concept. I think there is room for a few of these companies. The demand seems to be way past the local production capabilities.

Best of luck to Praxis.

[Tri-Ungulate]

I can't believe it took me this long to figure out frorider's identity

[kidwoo]

I look forward to hearing more about these skis. Right off I like the little guy local shop, had made concept. I think there is room for a few of these companies. The demand seems to be way past the local production capabilities.

Best of luck to Praxis.

I should have some next month.

If you're still around, you're certainly welcome to ski them.

[corn dog]

I can't believe it took me this long to figure out frorider's identity

Yeah there is a certain amount of schizophrenia in terms of interweb personalities
In this case he had to dump a pretty clue huh.

[BakerBoy]

Holding the Praxis next to the Spatula: these are the same ski, except: (a) Praxis is 1cm wider throughout, and (b) Praxis weighs a lot (and I mean a lot) less. The two skis mirror each other in length (Praxis maybe 1cm shorter).

What I was most interested in was how similar they were in the reverse camber: they are exactly the same, eyeballed base-to-base. It's almost as if the Spatula was used as a mold to make the Praxis.

So they copied a ski with outdated technology and made it light? Everybody would still be better off on Pontoons... seriously. Somebody sell me, and don't say the graphics.

[bossass]

So they copied a ski with outdated technology and made it light? Everybody would still be better off on Pontoons... seriously. Somebody sell me, and don't say the graphics.

Did you get sponsored by K2 or something?

How do you figure the Spatula is outdated? Seems to me that poor groomer performance shouldn't matter at a place like Baker anyway. It's a whole 100 yards from the bottom of Gobl's to the lift. The spat does powder well, what else should it do? It was never suppossed to be a one quiver ski. I assume the groomer performance is your hangup, cause there's nothing else wrong with the spat, aside from weight. Which Praxxis fixed.

So, they're like a spat but much lighter. Have a tweaked sidecut to perform better on groomers to apease the whiners. Don't have huge clown shoe tips to smack together. Don't have questionable construction. Aren't a floppy noodle. Don't cost $800. Sell me on the Pontoon.

[Jiehkevarri]

I don't know much and haven't even tried reverse-camber design...so this is just speculating and all IMVHO

But I've just watched "Pull" yesterday and I was thinking what's the deal with Pontoons after seeing McConkey's part.

For me it seems that Pontoon is a whole different animal vs. Spatula-type design. In the said part McConkey was skiing 90% of the time really "Nobis"/racing style...driving hard the tips, legs pretty wide apart, using the edge, round, exact turns. I guess the tips won't smack if you ski like this. And the tips are so damn wide that you can really haveforward, agressive stance in pow.

I guess Pontoon is more about the float and "traditional" skiing tehnique with the possibility to schmear/slide when needed. As Spatula is more for playing with the new possibilities, trees, tech lines w/ sideways parts etc.

Pontoons seem too soft when hand flexing though (and I'm a fan of a bit softer skis). But I just have a feeling that maybe McConkey is into something new again, and it will take a while when people will understand/adapt/follow... (and maybe a bit refined version of the Pontoon?)

[The Dad]

So they copied a ski with outdated technology and made it light? Everybody would still be better off on Pontoons... seriously. Somebody sell me, and don't say the graphics.

Having only seen and discussed, not skied them, I'd say the points of advantage over Spats are:

• Lower weight
• Added width
• Slight but visible sidecut underfoot should improve performance on traverses and groomers where necessary
• Sidewall construction

Not just a rewarmed Spat.

[MTT]

I should have some next month.

If you're still around, you're certainly welcome to ski them.

But will you give them up on a worthy powder day? Will I ever be in town on a powder day?

[fat yeti]

I don't think that the spat is out dated or the pontoon is not going to be good. It seems to me that manufactures are giving people more options for skiing powder to match diffrent styles. There was a post a while back were they broke powder skis into three catagories. Fat twins prophets fatyups and sumos. Reverse sidecut and camber dp lotus 138, praxis, pontoon. And the third dp loutus 120 ehp 193 new big daddies. I think its great to see all the changes in the industry and it will be interesting to see what they come up with next. I can't wait to ge my praxis next week and compare them to my prophets.

[TheDon]

The Praxis is my first reverse camber board. I was really nervous to get them just because of what everyone says on how they suck on the groomed back to the lift.

I will make a couple of points I think after riding the board a couple of pow days. 2 at Alta 1 at Pomerell (at least I was on the snow!)

-Super fast turns, you will ski trees so fast you might Bono it!
-You will still get face shots! You stay on top but it still happens.
-The feeling is unlike anything else, I had the prophet 130 last year and the Prxs skis way better.
-Groomed and bumps are very ski-able! Who ever said they "suck" on the groomed is stupid, they do fine. Check out this pic even, skiing bumps with my bro. I think you can ski them anywhere.

Great ski Two Thumbs Way Up!

[fat yeti]

Glad to hear you liked them better than the prophets I relay like my prohets but shomehting is missing in how they ski

[IE]

i'm a head m103 / atomic BD fan (cheerleader?)

storm's heading our way...

103s and Praxis is my exact quiver this year and I'll be trying out the new to me 103s this weekend at the 'wood. The Praxis aren't mounted yet, and I don't know if I want to risk tearing them up this weekend, but we'll see... I might just have to mount 'em tonight just to have 'em with me, with a review to follow. Super stoked about finally getting out there this winter .

[dookeyXXX]

I ran into Keith's cousin a few weeks ago at Alpine Meadows.

He was giving his Praxis the "durability testing" given that there was only one viable run open and tons of hidden rocks, stumps, shrubs, and debris under the 2" layer of fresh.

Ran into him on the Roundhouse lift and talked a bit (that's where he fessed up to testing them for durability). Ran into him again at the end of the day and the skis had minimal damage (a few scuffs on the bases, but no edge damage). He said he loved 'em. Not sure if they were the same as the ones being sold as I believe they were one of the early prototypes.

Looked sweet though (the graphics are muted and not garish at all).

[TheDon]

Glad to hear you liked them better than the prophets I relay like my prohets but shomehting is missing in how they ski

You just read my mind! I was stoked on the feeling of the 130 but it just seemed like it should offer more. Almost like it was "missing something". I think I found it in the praxis. I hate to be all over the Prxs but if they rock, they rock!

I rode them again hoping that Alta would get more than the 2" they got and it was still a pretty fun day. Great ski.

[funkendrenchman]

You just read my mind! I was stoked on the feeling of the 130 but it just seemed like it should offer more. Almost like it was "missing something". I think I found it in the praxis. I hate to be all over the Prxs but if they rock, they rock!

I rode them again hoping that Alta would get more than the 2" they got and it was still a pretty fun day. Great ski.

How can the Praxis possibly rock? They are using outdated technology.