OMG...I think I like short & narrow skis!

**dookeyXXX** · 10-30-2007, 12:49 PM

So I tripped to Colo over the weekend to experience the "legendary" WROD at Loveland and A-Basin. Along for the trek were my 180cm No Ka Ois.

Sunday at L'Land I was riding with some Copper instructors and having a hard time getting the Noki's to really grip the borderline icy hardpack. I was riding the Pinto bucket seat a bit fiercly as a result, which my friends duly noted.

At half-time one of them asked if I wanted to try something a bit shorter and narrower just for shits and giggles. Next thing I know I'm on a pair of 170 Nordy Top Fuels (78mm). BOO-YAA! I began slaying the boiler like it was soft serve. Sucked myself outta the bucketseat, too. Earned kudos from the instructors for greatly improved stance and for stepping up my game. Still, as much as I enjoyed the stix, 170 felt hella short.

Monday hit up the Basin. They had obviously groomed first thing in the morning as conditions were much better than L'Land. We're taking about an inch of sugar on top of hardpack. The Noki's were better suited toward this and I was loving the vibe of ripping down the left margin of the main run. Only time I floundered was arching a turn and hitting a patch of slickness which threw me out and into a power slide mid-run.

At pee break my buddy--same one who had loaned me the TF's the day before--suggested I give his 178 Nordy Mach 3's (72mm) a whirl. He cranked the DIN on his binders (from 6 to my more comfortable 9) and we swapped out. First thing I noticed is that 1 Mach 3 weighed more than both my Noki's combined. These things were f@#kin' tanks. Hell, my legs went to sleep on the lift ride. But once I got them out on the hill? DAMN KILOGRAM! They ripped even better than the TF's from the day before. I was arcing some lovelies. And were they ever stable.

Now don't get me wrong, I still dig my wider planks (Titan 9's, King Salmons), but now I'm seriously considering picking up a pair of groomer zoomers for early pre-season WROD conditions...

FWIW, my short ski, narrow waisted loving buddy really dug my No Ka Oi's. So I may have converted somebody in the process (of course they have somewhat converted me to the dark side, as well).

**lemon boy** · 10-30-2007, 01:12 PM

NEWSFLASH! midfat skis aren't as good on the groomers as skinny skis!

**SiSt** · 10-30-2007, 01:12 PM

Hahaha. Nice.

Skied the atomic metrons (15m radius) and volkl supersports back to back on a demo day last season. It was real good fun but I felt kinda gay. (Thinking about the natural progression towards skiing without poles, feeling the snow while carving or even visualized myself with a pair of poles with skis on them if you remember those?)

The metrons were way better than the volkls by the way, even if they weighed a ton.

It had a long lasting effect on my brain however, and I ended up buying a pair of second hand gs-skis (191 rossi rx wc ibox) in order to keep my balls even while skiing icy groomers.

BTW: I demoed a pair of 184cm mantras the same day, and they felt as good, maybe better than the supersports... I also skied the metrons with a 9!m radius once, my gf said I looked completely ridiculous, bouncing from side to side like a rubber ball, almost ruined my fun.

**bklyn** · 10-30-2007, 01:23 PM

Just rent skinnies when appropriate. Most of your days will not be spent on icy groomers.
Not worth the investment.

**iceman** · 10-30-2007, 01:26 PM

Man if you can't arc turns on hardpack on the No Ka Oi's, something's wrong. My 193's are carving monsters.

**SiSt** · 10-30-2007, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by bklyn

Just rent skinnies when appropriate. Most of your days will not be spent on icy groomers.
Not worth the investment.

I guess you´re right. Too late now anyway, quiver expansion finished for the season.

**flatNshallow** · 10-30-2007, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by bklyn

Just rent skinnies when appropriate. Most of your days will not be spent on icy groomers.
Not worth the investment.

LOL... I thought that was supposed to be:

"Just rent Fat ski's if it dumps while your out west"...

**SiSt** · 10-30-2007, 01:32 PM

No Ka Oi 193: 120-84-110, meaning a radius of 23,3m. That is a carving ski. A long one, but still a carving ski.

**dookeyXXX** · 10-30-2007, 01:33 PM

renting skinny skis is so gauche.

"Man if you can't arc turns on hardpack on the No Ka Oi's, something's wrong. My 193's are carving monsters."

Dude, the 180's are stiff MoFo's. I can arc 'em fine, just can't get 'em to dig in like I was able to on the Nordy's. Dunno if it's the lack of camber or the longer TR. Or me (though the cats I was riding with assured me my riding was fine and who am I to argue with folks who have been teaching skiing for like 20 years?)

As for your 193's...that's funny. When I told the KW shop guys that on certain conditions the 180's felt hella stiff and I was having trouble flexing them they suggested I get the 190's and that I'd be able to flex the hell outta those.

Mostly it was just fun to do the groomer zoomer thing, which I haven't done in awhile. I may just end up re-mounting my old 7S's for shits and giggles like this.

**el penoso** · 10-30-2007, 01:35 PM

Everyone needs a pair of skinny racers just to scare the shit out of yourself once in a while. They will last much longer than your midfats too.

**Below Zero** · 10-30-2007, 01:36 PM

Top Fuels! Rock on! Was your buddy DefJef?

**stuckathuntermtn** · 10-30-2007, 01:37 PM

I have some 160cm K2 Axis XT's I could sell you. They're on my wall.
j/k
My 85mm under-foot pipe cleaners do quite well on hard pack. Not talking glare racing ice, but quite well.
I expect my enforcers I just ordered to do quite well on MT hard pack.
so yeah, I ordered some Nordica Enforecers, 185!
I can't afford it and I still need bindings!

**dookeyXXX** · 10-30-2007, 01:51 PM

"Everyone needs a pair of skinny racers just to scare the shit out of yourself once in a while. They will last much longer than your midfats too."

True, true dat.

They were hella fun just ripping the sideline of the WROD at the Basin, that's for sure. Reminded me that I'm one of those tweeners who digs the "big mountain" aspect that many Maggots promote and I also dig the "short turns at high speed on groomers" aspect that many Epic folks love.

As for lasting longer...the Top Fuels I were on had 200+ days on 'em and they still felt pretty lively. Not as ripping as the Mach 3's, though.

Now if Nordica only made a Mach 11-With-Your-Hair-On-Fire...

**milkman** · 10-30-2007, 01:59 PM

I missed the feeling of maching groomers on the icy days, so picked up a pair of lightly used Volkl G3's for $90. Only skied them 2 days last season, but man were they a blast on firm snow. They should last me many more years to come...

**iceman** · 10-30-2007, 02:00 PM

Could be the 180's are a lot stiffer, I have no idea. the 193's are burly but they can definitely be flexed.

**dallread** · 10-30-2007, 02:06 PM

ive heard great things about the top fuels, i have the atomic sx for some midwest thrills

**s.p.c** · 10-30-2007, 02:08 PM

i borrowed the brother in laws fischer rc somethings in like a 17 small last year- and hot damn! seriously made me want to run gates again. i wasn't used to the turning radius nor the return energy. them suckers got some gump- throwin me up in the air for a second between turns. got ta say not really my cup o tea, but a damn blast fur sure.

**dookeyXXX** · 10-30-2007, 02:35 PM

Iceman:

Think I missrepresented myself.

I can flex the Noki's, just have a harder time getting them to grip on the icy/BP/hardpack is all. I attibute some of that to their lack of camber (compared to the Nordy's I tried), their longer TR, and their more progressive flex.

My Copper instructor buddy said I was carving fine, even though to me it didn't feel like it. But then I tend to underscore my skills a tad and a lot of times when I feel "off" the folks I'm riding with say that I looked like I was nailing it. That said, I'm still a half-assed well skier who often errors on the side of hacking and Pinto riding.

Go figure.

**runethechamp** · 10-30-2007, 02:51 PM

I think everyone who raves about fat skis' performance on hardpack is either not skiing on real hardpack or forgot how a skinny ski can perform in such conditions.

**Shin-to-Win** · 10-30-2007, 03:13 PM

I demo'd that same top fuel last year. A crazy carving machine. Way to easy to get them to bite.

They actuall felt dangerous at speed because just a touch of forward lean in the turn would rocket them across the hill. Didn't like that very much. Maybe nice for tight east coast icy trails where you want to get as many turns in as possible and milk the vertical, but not for wide open groomers.

Stability at speed is the most important part of a true groomer/ice ski. Shorties just don't help on that front.

**runethechamp** · 10-30-2007, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Shin-to-Win

I demo'd that same top fuel last year. A crazy carving machine. Way to easy to get them to bite.

They actuall felt dangerous at speed because just a touch of forward lean in the turn would rocket them across the hill. Didn't like that very much. Maybe nice for tight east coast icy trails where you want to get as many turns in as possible and milk the vertical, but not for wide open groomers.

Stability at speed is the most important part of a true groomer/ice ski. Shorties just don't help on that front.

I think the more or less standard length for the GS racers is 181 now.

**dookeyXXX** · 10-30-2007, 03:35 PM

well the 178cm/72mm Mach 3's were stable as fiznuck. But then they weighed as much as a pair of Legend Pros (at least they felt like they did).

and personally i wouldn't go shorter than a 175 in anything, but that's just me.

somebody above me said it a lot simpler than I did (i'm not known for being quick and to the point) in that getting on these skis reminded me of how fun it can be to rip the sideline of a groomer. Took me back to my old 7S days and made me realize that i like that as much as going off-piste (which became more of a necessity to avoid the overcrowded groomers).

**skier666** · 10-30-2007, 04:09 PM

Skinny skis carve like ice skates nowadays...that's how they should feel. Just a little pressure and BAMMMMMMMMMM! Carve-time!

I'd love to get a full quiver of SL/GS/SG/DH just for the hell of it, but I can think of other things that I should spend my money on....like property taxes for one

**flip** · 10-30-2007, 04:17 PM

Groomer days happen, and having a pair of skinny skis makes them damn fun.

I dig my aztec pros.

**flip** · 10-30-2007, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by skier666

I'd love to get a full quiver of SL/GS/SG/DH just for the hell of it, but I can think of other things that I should spend my money on....like property taxes for one

A pair of used race skis can be had for less than a benjamin, or often with bindings for cheaper than the bindings themselves would be. If you can justify $200 for a pair of p18s, you can justify $150 for a pair of p18s mounted to dynastar course GSs.