Results 26 to 33 of 33
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02-14-2024, 02:55 AM #26
Yeah, midpack surface hoar is not something we normally deal with.
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02-14-2024, 11:02 AM #27
Red Flag #6 - Listed avalanche problem lacks some or all of the physical clues of Red Flags 1-5? Maybe add that it's difficult to impossible to manage?
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02-14-2024, 11:24 AM #28
I am so grateful for the CBAC, they kick so much ass. Before yesterday's forecast, I thought to myself "they should talk a bit about surface hoar. We just don't get it that big (it's a very distinct 1" layer here), or that widespread around here very often" And sure enough, they talked a lot about it. They are so on top of their discussions, and travel advice, in a way that few other centers are.
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02-17-2024, 07:23 AM #29
I would argue that the lack of red flags IS kind of what a green flag is, but that you cannot limit this to just huge huge red flags like cracking. If you include all possible red flags, and aren't seeing any, thats a green flag, but potential red flags, as we all know but it doesn't hurt to have a reminder of, are heuristic traps that have nothing to do with the snow, like summit fever, or not having backed off a line in a while, as well as just not having observed the snowpack develop over the course of the season etc etc etc.
but yea, I've heard similar things said out loud from smart people with degrees etc, mentioning the lack of severe red flags like cracking, with no discussion of whether or not there are more minor red flags.__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
"We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats
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02-17-2024, 09:31 AM #30
What’s a green flag?
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02-17-2024, 12:01 PM #31
At awareness level, I think it's sufficient to introduce the idea that red flags present = avalanche hazard present, and emphasize that no red flags =/ no avalanche hazard. Linking the "no red flags w/unstable snowpack" condition to a specific avy problem here is probably too much.
At L1 link the "no red flags w/unstable snowpack" condition to PWL. Emphasize that it's a uniquely non-communicative problem. Emphasize avoidance. Emphasizing avoidance specifically for PWL introduces the idea that other problems are manageable (potential can of worms/curriculum creep), but discussing management strategies for other problems is too much for L1 IMO.
Travel approach (beyond avoidance) for different types of avalanches seems like clear L2 curriculum. Awareness and L1 are about identifying hazard. L2 there's room to discuss how to manage hazard. Discussing management of surface instabilities vs. PWL seems appropriate here.
Some or all of this may already be happening. I don't remember much about it in my L1 or L2, but both are outdated reference points.
The trick is that L1->L2 transition. I think there are many that take a L1 and delay a L2 for a significant amount of time. So in my proposed progression you still may end up with a lot of relatively experienced L1 users that are aware of the unique behavior of a PWL, but might not have a detailed enough understanding to fully appreciate/respect it.Last edited by North; 02-18-2024 at 05:46 PM. Reason: Grammar
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02-18-2024, 08:12 AM #32
BIG PICTURE.
Trying to thread the needle in years with a bad PWL lead to things like "Total of six people caught in three avalanches in 24 hours"
In these type of years, (Realistic and conservative) terrain and goal management are what might keep you alive.Last edited by Bunion 2020; 02-19-2024 at 10:02 AM.
I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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02-18-2024, 03:55 PM #33
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