Kingpin charging

**nickel** · 04-06-2018, 08:54 PM

Excellent. I hope some good comes from this.

**waxoff** · 04-06-2018, 11:01 PM

How about including a link to the forum, or this very thread itself?

**hercule33** · 04-07-2018, 01:27 AM

Excellent summary. Someone suggested it before but an appendix at the end with pictures from this forum might be useful. A short blurb with each picture explaining when it happened (i.e. this broke while a 200 lb male was skinning) may be helpful to demonstrate the severity of the problem.

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**TahoeJ** · 04-07-2018, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by SoooL

How about including a link to the forum, or this very thread itself?

Probably better to create a fresh summary thread with photos and descriptions and also asking for others to submit photos if they have them. This thread is a bit of a TGR shit show.

**waxoff** · 04-07-2018, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by TahoeJ

Probably better to create a fresh summary thread with photos and descriptions and also asking for others to submit photos if they have them. This thread is a bit of a TGR shit show.

Good thinking!

**roverdoc** · 04-07-2018, 10:45 AM

I would remove the portions of the letter that thankfully no one has been hurt as we really do not know. Tgr is much to small a sample size. Marker knows if people have been hurt and I would not be surprised if there have been some injuries. Thanks for taking this on.

**waxman** · 04-09-2018, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Bragelonne

Kingpins were designed, advertised and marketed precisely as a binding "you can ski in bounds and out of bounds no problem"; Blister gave them flying colors, and they made their way under the feet of FWT athletes. Now that we're in the 3rd year, we're seeing shit hitting the fan as far as durability goes. I don't think anyone who put their money on these, except for some of the rich retarded cunts you wait on, "fell" for anything else but what we read and knew about the kingpins at the time.

Now you can put your MAGA cap back on.

MAGA? Please, I live in the greatest country in the world. The USA wishes it was Canada. I know FWT athletes, I've worked on their skis, sponsored them, got them sponsored etc. They'll ski on whatever they're getting paid to ski on or what they can get cheap. I don't believe ads or reviews, I've been "in the industry" for 30+ years and seen enough failed trends to know better. I stand by my thinking, pin/tech bindings should not be skied in bounds on a regular basis.

**nickel** · 04-09-2018, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by waxman

MAGA? Please, I live in the greatest country in the world. The USA wishes it was Canada. I know FWT athletes, I've worked on their skis, sponsored them, got them sponsored etc. They'll ski on whatever they're getting paid to ski on or what they can get cheap. I don't believe ads or reviews, I've been "in the industry" for 30+ years and seen enough failed trends to know better. I stand by my thinking, pin/tech bindings should not be skied in bounds on a regular basis.

Maybe you're right, maybe they shouldn't be skied in bounds on a regular basis. That doesn't change that other, lighter pintech gear has been put through this by others with similarly questionable judgement without having pins break in half.

**TahoeJ** · 04-09-2018, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by waxman

I stand by my thinking, pin/tech bindings should not be skied in bounds on a regular basis.

Agreed, except maybe on pow days only. And obviously many others do too, hence the design of the Shift.

**XXX-er** · 04-09-2018, 12:13 PM

The elephant in the room is ... Why are the pins breaking ?

The last time I know of that pins broke on a tech binding was G3 onyx in 2011 and they fixed it

And btw MEC marketed the kingpin to 1/3rd of Canada as a do-it-all binding, Kingpin are unavailable on MEC at the moment

Maybe some Canucks who bought thru MEC could complain to them, knowing MEC they would probably just get their money back

Otherwise I don't see much happening here but have at er eh

**waxman** · 04-09-2018, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by nickel

Maybe you're right, maybe they shouldn't be skied in bounds on a regular basis. That doesn't change that other, lighter pintech gear has been put through this by others with similarly questionable judgement without having pins break in half.

Correct. Ion's heels explode. Dynafit's forward pressure screws back off or the heels break. Original Vipec toes blew pins like crazy. Something always breaks. The local college outdoor program borrows new bindings from us any time they do a hut or backcountry trip "just in case" because none of the tech bindings can be trusted.

**galibier_numero_un** · 04-09-2018, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by waxman

Original Vipec toes had the pins back out of their threads due to user error - not using thread locker.

FIFY

... Thom

**nickel** · 04-09-2018, 04:43 PM

Vipec issue was users not setting it up right and was addressed basically immediately and openly by manufacturer.

Ion heels explode? Literally first I've heard of it. Explode how? How many? I've not seen users here with any repeatable issues.

As for forward pressure backing off on dfits, sounds like something that needs some lock tite.

Not really the same level of issues IMO.

**waxman** · 04-10-2018, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by nickel

Vipec issue was users not setting it up right and was addressed basically immediately and openly by manufacturer.

Ion heels explode? Literally first I've heard of it. Explode how? How many? I've not seen users here with any repeatable issues.

As for forward pressure backing off on dfits, sounds like something that needs some lock tite.

Not really the same level of issues IMO.

Not sure where you're going with this? Do you want a list of RA#s or pics of the piles of blown up tech bindings in my basement? Shit blows up. When twin tips first came out people were all "i tore my edges out out" or "the sidewalls are broken/cracked". Yes, you are right. "that should be a warranty". Nope, you skied on metal rails and other stuff that damaged the skis. "well that's what they're made for". No, that's what they're marketed for they are still skis and react poorly to abuse.
As "tech " develops I'm sure it will go through these growing pains too.

**stoepstyle** · 04-11-2018, 09:08 AM

Hi guys, thought I would chime in with my recent experience with kingpins

Bought a pair when they were on presale, skiied the piss out of them until now. 2 years ago got one toepiece replaced when they had the recall because the pins would spin in the hole due to bad press tolerances, otherwise zero issues. Nothing but good times

This past winter however, has been hell. I have been lucky enough to spend an entire winter in Georgia (mostly Gudauri, some Svaneti) and I have broken three god damn toepieces. I came here with my tried and true setup, broke one toepiece by the pin backing out completely (I should have just warrantied both the fuckers 2 years ago, call me an idiot for that). Stressed out trying to communicate in some mix between Russian Georgian German and English, I found an entire replacement set of brand new kingpins. Whoopee, at least I will have a bunch of extra parts if I have any more trouble!

Well god damn did I have trouble. One month later I was having a grand ol time kicking a skintrack up one of the flanks of Mt Ushba in Svaneti and BAM, snapped one of the toepieces pins off (like the pin itself sheared, half the pin was still stuck in the gold "wing"). I had an outrageosly rediculous time skiing 4k vert back down to the taxi using only 3 pins and progressively bending the single pin toepiece more and more until eventually I could no longer click in. I went back to the shop I bought them from and they kindly gave me another toepiece.

Just today however, I was out touring near Gudauri, on the last day of the season, and I snapped another god damn pin. I was just hoping to make it the rest of the season intact so I could sell these fuckers to some other person. I went back to the shop and they were like "we gave you a new toepiece like a month ago, we arent giving you two, send an email to marker" which from what I understand is completely hopeless (without going through a shop)

Every time they break I am in touring mode going uphill. Usually very recently I was sidehilling on breakable crust and kicking a bench for the skintrack. My ski style is reminiscent of european heartcarvers, not some FWT shit. Anyway if I dont get a new toepiece I have 3/4 of a set for sale that you can use to switch out parts when yours breaks.

**doebedoe** · 04-11-2018, 09:17 AM

^^ Quality post.

I feel bad everytime I see people on these out on the slopes now...waiting to implode.

**Skidog** · 04-11-2018, 09:29 AM

Maybe touring mode is the problem? Just ski them like Alpine bindings and get something else for actual touring. Good job marker

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**nickel** · 04-11-2018, 09:59 AM

Both mine broke while skiing.

**Skidog** · 04-11-2018, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by nickel

Both mine broke while skiing.

Pin "shears" or...?

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**XXX-er** · 04-11-2018, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Skidog

Maybe touring mode is the problem? Just ski them like Alpine bindings and get something else for actual touring. Good job marker

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aren't some folks saying Kingpin should only be used off piste, are you being obtuse, or maybe you could explain to us how this^^ makes any sense ?

**nickel** · 04-11-2018, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Skidog

Pin "shears" or...?

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Correct. Pins shearing/snapping x2

**Skidog** · 04-11-2018, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

aren't some folks saying Kingpin should only be used off piste, are you being obtuse, or maybe you could explain to us how this^^ makes any sense ?

I was joking that they seem to break less in ski mode, but maybe it's not so skewed as I thought.

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**meter-man** · 04-12-2018, 02:04 PM

NYSR started a thread on his planned letter: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ker-Re-Kingpin

**Va Ki Bo** · 04-22-2018, 06:56 AM

Considering these pin shear/broken toe arm issues, in one of the last blister’s Gear:30 podcasts with G3 binding developers they claimed that “we (i.e. G3) have never ever had a single warranty for a broken aluminum part in the ION”