Older parents-WWYD?

[m2711c]

DNR/Comfort Care/MOLST and make *sure* that no one does it to you, if thats what you want

I wouldn’t count on that working. It didn’t for my mom. Ambulance crew just ignored it.

[gravitylover]

I wouldn’t count on that working. It didn’t for my mom. Ambulance crew just ignored it.

Really? That's fucked up.

[m2711c]

yeah, she was seriously pissed off when she woke up in the hospital. turned the quick exit that she was hoping for into a slow painful two week ordeal. the ambulance was dispatched from the same hospital that my mom was a patient. they had the DNR in her records, so they knew before they went. she also had them plastered all around her condo. on the front door, the refrigerator, the counter, the mirrors... and they still went ahead and intubated her anyway.





on the upside, i got a chance to say goodby and to be there as she left...

[gravitylover]

Sigh. Sorry dude

[Meadow Skipper]

yeah, she was seriously pissed off when she woke up in the hospital. turned the quick exit that she was hoping for into a slow painful two week ordeal. the ambulance was dispatched from the same hospital that my mom was a patient. they had the DNR in her records, so they knew before they went. she also had them plastered all around her condo. on the front door, the refrigerator, the counter, the mirrors... and they still went ahead and intubated her anyway.





on the upside, i got a chance to say goodby and to be there as she left...

[The Reverend Floater]

I wouldn’t count on that working. It didn’t for my mom. Ambulance crew just ignored it.

My mom was absolutely paranoid about this in her last few years. Carried a laminated DNR doc in her purse, kept one in her car, etc. Upon a trip to the ER, the very nice doc said something along the lines of "those rarely work in actuality."


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[evdog]

Upon a trip to the ER, the very nice doc said something along the lines of "those rarely work in actuality."

Well the hospital wouldn't want to lose out on any billings

Wonder if they could be sued for pain and suffering?

[old goat]

Well the hospital wouldn't want to lose out on any billings

Wonder if they could be sued for pain and suffering?

That's bullshit. Every hospital I've ever worked in has been good about honoring DNR's. But EMT's and paramedics are too low on the totem pole to feel comfortable letting someone die after they've been called--and why were they called? There are plenty of greedy hospitals but keeping someone alive who has a DNR just to collect -- they're not that greedy. Besides, most DNR's are medicare and traditional medicare pays by the diagnosis, not by the day and services rendered. Keeping a dying patient alive is a great way to lose money. If the patient is Medicare Advantage the insurer isn't going to pay for keeping someone with a DNR alive.

[The Reverend Floater]

That's bullshit. Every hospital I've ever worked in has been good about honoring DNR's. But EMT's and paramedics are too low on the totem pole to feel comfortable letting someone die after they've been called--and why were they called? There are plenty of greedy hospitals but keeping someone alive who has a DNR just to collect -- they're not that greedy. Besides, most DNR's are medicare and traditional medicare pays by the diagnosis, not by the day and services rendered. Keeping a dying patient alive is a great way to lose money. If the patient is Medicare Advantage the insurer isn't going to pay for keeping someone with a DNR alive.

Yeah, I believe he was referring to the chaos of EMTs, etc, who often are in the position that dictates the game. I have friends who are emts and I don't envy them one bit.

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[gravitylover]

It's looking like there's gonna be some unfinished business between me and my dad. I think we're in the last few days now, he's in a hospice center and only receiving painkillers. The Dilaudid has him totally knocked out and uncommunicative so the stuff I didn't say to him because it would've hurt will likely stay unsaid. It's eating me up even though I know I did the right thing.

[riser4]

It's looking like there's gonna be some unfinished business between me and my dad. I think we're in the last few days now, he's in a hospice center and only receiving painkillers. The Dilaudid has him totally knocked out and uncommunicative so the stuff I didn't say to him because it would've hurt will likely stay unsaid. It's eating me up even though I know I did the right thing.

+++Vibes+++

[frorider]

There will probably come a time when you will tell him these things. And a year from now you may tell him again. Don’t let this eat you up too much.

And vibes as you go through this last stage.

[KQ]

The stroke my mother had at the beginning of March has sent her into dementia and it's apparent she will not be able to return to her assisted living situation. She has become incredibly cruel to me saying horrible things about how she feels about me and claiming I caused her stroke, that I laugh in her face all the time etc. etc. It is getting very hard for me to visit her (I've been going every day).

I'm now having to consider where to move her (she's in rehab now). I could spend thousands to keep her in a memory care facility attached to where she is now (where she's lived for the last 15 years) or I could get her on Medicaid and leave her where she is which is basically a waiting room for death. It's clean and the staff are numerous and kind but it's dismal.

There is another memory care in town that takes Medicaid that I can look into but I have to get her approved first.

My question to all of you: do you think it matters where she lives aside from care? At the memory care I would have to pay for she would have a nice room to herself. Where she is now (a skilled nursing facility) she would share a small room with someone else where the beds are barely 8ft apart. I assume the medicare memory care would be the same but I don't know.

I have some concern about moving her as she has previously exhibited signs of "transfer trama" when she moved from rehab back to assisted when she broke her pelvis in October. She has left neglect which cuts her world in half and makes her confused and she has started wandering even trying to exit the facility (she uses a wheelchair and drags herself around with her feet but her brain no longer recognized anything left of center so it's a problem). She can no longer read books and the TV control confounds her even though it only has an "on" button and up & down for channels and volume.

Death would be such a mercy. This is horrible.

[Bunion 2020]

So sorry.

do you think it matters where she lives aside from care?

No, not really. Do as much as you can but please take care of yourself as well.

[Meadow Skipper]

Gosh KQ, so sorry. I hope you have some stress relief for yourself, either available or planned.

If it were me, I don’t think I’d want to live with the frame of mind she’s slipping into and I’d want to pass as quickly as possible, but that’s too easy for me to say. My mom had dementia, and it was super-tough on us kids. But we laid down the bucks for the more pleasant options…it didn’t seem to matter to her at all though.

[Harry]

Vibes KQ. No good answers or easy solutions. As bunion said, first and foremost take care of yourself.


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[old goat]

T This is horrible.

Do as much as you can but please take care of yourself as well.

. But we laid down the bucks for the more pleasant options…it didn’t seem to matter to her at all though.

Agree with the above.

Our "less enlightened" ancestors had kinder ways to ease people out of this world. I'm old enough to have seen a little of that.
One thing to consider in where she lives is whether the faciltiy seems amenable to things like no antibiotics, no tube feeding, no transfer to acute care hospital, no resuscitation--if that's what you want for her. Try to get a sense of that if you can. The advantage of keeping her where she's been is they know her, they know what she was like before the stroke, and will naturally have more empathy for her and her severely diminished condition.
Best of luck with this,

[yeahman]

KQ--mt opinion--it does not matter where she is as long as the care is humane. The trappings of "nice things" are lost on her now. Don't break yourself financially, you have many years left to live and you will need that money. She doesn't. Limit your visits and don't feel guilty. Wear earplugs or ear buds when you do visit. Smile and nod. It's hard to listen to that mean talk, even though you know it's not really her talking. Sorry you are going through this.

[XXX-er]

My question to all of you: do you think it matters where she lives aside from care? At the memory care I would have to pay for she would have a nice room to herself. Where she is now (a skilled nursing facility) she would share a small room with someone else where the beds are barely 8ft apart. I assume the medicare memory care would be the same but I don't know.

Every situ is different but not really, they are somewhere else

if there are other patients in the same room there are more nurses in the room more often checking on all of them which might be better than a patient being all alone in a room

as I remember they will give you the single room when the time is near

[The Reverend Floater]

KQ--mt opinion--it does not matter where she is as long as the care is humane. The trappings of "nice things" are lost on her now. Don't break yourself financially, you have many years left to live and you will need that money. She doesn't. Limit your visits and don't feel guilty. Wear earplugs or ear buds when you do visit. Smile and nod. It's hard to listen to that mean talk, even though you know it's not really her talking. Sorry you are going through this.

I mean, I generally agree but said trappings often DO matter. Even in the final months of my mom's dementia, she was adamant about certain things and certainly aware. And if things weren't as she wanted, she'd obsess or worse. That's the ironically awful thing--it only erases parts of them...much of them remains the same to remind you of how wonderful they were.

KQ, do what you feel is right. Oddly, you'll never regret that stuff either way as in retrospect, it was the rest of her life that you'll hang on to.

I recommend reading up on how to interact with demented folks. There are some basic tips that were really, really helpful.

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[gravitylover]

One of the worst parts of dementia is the meanness and paranoia. Some of the things my FIL and my dad have said to us is truly horrible. There's no sugarcoating it, IT SUCKS.

[lowsparkco]

Hey KQ - sorry to hear about the changes in your mom’s situation. My wife is a home health therapist that works with stroke patients a lot. She says that those SNF’s can vary in quality, but if they are giving her good care there’s little that would be different in memory care. She says save the money. I don’t know enough to have an opinion, but I empathize because it would be tough to see your mom like that. Thoughts and prayers.

[gravitylover]

Oh and today my FIL started having problems swallowing. Is it wrong that I'm looking forward to them passing?

[Cisco Kid]

IMHO, no.

[Aldo]

Oh man just reading this thread now. Vibes to you both. As many have said, you’ve done so much for your parents and you’ll continue to go the extra mile but take care of your selves too. Hang in there , in my thoughts both kq and gl.