San Francisco plane crash

[mtflyer]

Ahhh yes, I see that the PAPI NOTAM was added after the crash. So the crew basically had two other means of vertical guidance, plus their eyes of course.

Just curious, what certificates/ratings do you hold?

This was posted on another forum (not me):

I flew for these guys for several years. Whilst the facts are not known and it could be anything at this stage, I will say that the majority of the Korean Pilots were lost without the G/S. Also, most of them had[have] a tendency to push forward and undershoot the Glide Slope in the last couple hundred feet in order to have a lower angle in the hope of the "smooth landing. These guys were obsessed with the smooth landing. Word got around about me, and when they flew with me they knew never to undershoot when I was next to them.

[belgian]

Ahhh yes, I see that the PAPI NOTAM was added after the crash. So the crew basically had two other means of vertical guidance, plus their eyes of course.

Just curious, what certificates/ratings do you hold?

This was posted on another forum (not me):

I'm a dispatcher. Also hold a PPL but don't fly often.

That's a funny quote, I've heard similar things about Korean pilots in VFR conditions. Head down flight deck environment it seems, though I don't like to generalize too much.

[Hugh Conway]

generalize? Korean Airlines had to retool their training to fit "Korean Culture" after a string of accidents.

[Pow4Brains]

Just here to say SFO is a junkshow today! Between the BART strike and this my travels in the Bay area have been, unique.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using TGR Forums

[DasBlunt]

i have had some pretty terrible landings in the past few years. Rocking back and forth, super hard landings, airborne after landing then back down.

Is pilot training changing? Lots of new grads? Less military grade?

[systemoverblow'd]

...and apparently I'm a Luddite when it comes to new social media places

New? Path is about 3 years old and already run its course in my opinion.

[BmillsSkier]

Church.


I guess it is coming back.

New? Path is about 3 years old and already run its course in my opinion.

You do know what Luddite means don't you?

[spook]

i have had some pretty terrible landings in the past few years. Rocking back and forth, super hard landings, airborne after landing then back down.

Is pilot training changing? Lots of new grads? Less military grade?

don't worry. it's just god fucking with your sorry soon be smoking crater of an ass.

[systemoverblow'd]

You do know what Luddite means don't you?

You obviously don't. You also don't know what new means either.

[spook]

i think the real problem is that neither of you know what "know" means

[The Suit]

Just here to say SFO is a junkshow today! Between the BART strike and this my travels in the Bay area have been, unique.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using TGR Forums

Really? I landed at SFO at 10:00 this am and no problems.

[spook]

before i read the story and only saw the top of the plane burned open i assumed they were all. um. anything but rice krispies.

[BmillsSkier]

You obviously don't. You also don't know what new means either.

God you're in one of your moods aren't you?

Luddite: Broadly: one who is opposed to technological change.

Just like I said, I'm still firmly rooted in the Faceplace era. But by all means, keep fucking that chicken.

[itsnowjoke]

generalize? Korean Airlines had to retool their training to fit "Korean Culture" after a string of accidents.

Yes. There is a highly detailed chapter regarding oriental cultural issues and flying in the book The Outliers. It's a huge problem, and the reason that a perfectly good Korean Air Lines 747 crashed on Guam 15 or so years ago.

The gist of the cultural issue is that oriental flight crews -generally speaking- look at their Captains as being far superior both socially and professionally. If the captain is screwing up, the rest of the crew feels that it's inappropriate to "chastise" him.

In Western cultures this is not a problem. We feel comfortable saying "Dude, what are you doing!" And the person screwing up always appreciates the input. 'Cause you know, it's better than a plane crash.

An enormous amount of effort has gone into training oriental flight crews, but there's an enormous hurdle in overcoming several thousand years of cultural stigmas. Oriental airlines realize this, and would prefer to have western crews in their cockpits.

That being said, the SFO wreck could have mechanical elements involved and not be the result of pilot error. We'll have to wait and see. It's pretty hard to see how someone could blow a visual approach that badly, especially with an RNAV backup.

[Cono Este]

From cnn video, it looked like it cartwheeled!

Only reason I can think that anyone walked away form that was that the fuel tanks were near empty.

[iceman]

before i read the story and only saw the top of the plane burned open i assumed they were all. um. anything but rice krispies.

Gogigul?

[belgian]

Only reason I can think that anyone walked away form that was that the fuel tanks were near empty.

The TV keeps saying this but I want to point out that they would likely have had somewhere between 7,000 to 10,000lbs of fuel remaining in the tanks, or more. It was just lucky the engines separated and nothing punctured the tanks.

The video is incredible. ATC initially told us they had cartwheeled down the runway and now I see why.

[DasBlunt]

don't worry. it's just god fucking with your sorry soon be smoking crater of an ass.

That sounds like a threat?
Fortunately, assholes who think they are god generally get what is coming to them.

[Pow4Brains]

Really? I landed at SFO at 10:00 this am and no problems.

Yup, still trying to get on a flight, with a 7 month old in tow.....

Good times

Edit 4 - The issue is the "long" runways are closed due to the crash and they are having to adjust all the fuel loads, supposedly.

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[Cono Este]

The TV keeps saying this but I want to point out that they would likely have had somewhere between 7,000 to 10,000lbs of fuel remaining in the tanks, or more. It was just lucky the engines separated and nothing punctured the tanks.

The video is incredible. ATC initially told us they had cartwheeled down the runway and now I see why.

Some damn fine engineering a Boeing, gave everyone time to grab their luggage too.

[jfost]

Yes. There is a highly detailed chapter regarding oriental cultural issues ...

unfortunately the same effort hasn't gone into sensitivity training WRT the appropriateness of the word "oriental"...

[Hugh Conway]

unfortunately the same effort hasn't gone into sensitivity training WRT the appropriateness of the word "oriental"...

that's a good little middle manager.

[spook]

That sounds like a threat?
Fortunately, assholes who think they are god generally get what is coming to them.

you need more of das blunt. if your god wants to make you a smoking crater so be it. i have no imaginary friends in the sky to worry about.

[The AD]

It was just lucky the engines separated and nothing punctured the tanks.

Not luck at all. The airplanes are designed for that. Fuse pins at the engine mounts that shear when the airplane hits something.

The reason this was just a very wild ride for the majority of the passengers on this airplane has a lot more to do with engineering than luck.

[Hott Butt Mud]

Only Hot Butt Mud gets to issue rulings on that, sorry, jfost wannabe expert on experts.

Ruling -- He's more qualified than jfrost by far...