2012 Tour de France Fantasy Cycling

[reynolds.trailrun]

I despise watching the TT (team or individual). But the "race of truth" really does sort the men from the boys. I am stoked to see the results though. The chance of TJV sliding into 4th is possible. I think it is pretty slim even though he is a much better TT guy. But I am definitely hoping he pulls it off.

[birdman829]

Holy shit that was impressive. Obviously Wiggins and Froome were going to TT well, but 1-2? With Wiggins taking Froome by 90 seconds! Phil and Paul just can't help but gush over the state of British cycling and who can blame them?

Though the cynical side of me says that Sky may just have a talented pharmacist. Time will tell on that front I suppose.

[hitek79]

Doping or not, this was the only year Wiggo could have won. Next year when the big names are back Wiggins is going to get his dick knocked in the dirt. You think Contador is going to throw out those half assed attacks that fade 10 minutes later?

[bbense]

We've done a great job of not getting sidetracked with arguments in this thread, but there is just too much ignorant spew in Booker's post to let it go



You do realize that the teams are selected for any grand tour well in advance, right? So, tell me, how do teams get an invitation for a "do-over" after "screwing the pooch" so late in the season?

Wiggo crashing out with a broken clavicle is "screwing the pooch"?

Yes, because the whole sat there and watched him get in the van. Poof go the GC chances for the entire team. Sky did nada in the TDF last year. All Pro Tour teams have to race the 3 grand tours, they only have a choice about who they send. There's no way Wiggins would have raced the veulta if he had done well in the TDF. Sky needed to convince the money people
that their scheme of "all for wiggo" had a chance of working.

Again, more spew. Take a look at the Giro and the TdF start lists again. Show me where any team other than Garmin brought > one of the same guys to both.

Liquigas is probably the worst offender, but the core team for Sky did ALL THE SAME RACES and all the same training camps. That's very different than say RSNT where the spear carriers are focusing on some of the week long stage races or the spring classics. You can only peak so many times and for so long in a season. SKY put some very high powered riders that could have gotten results on their own into a support role for the entire season leading up to the TDF.

And if there are a few random instances, they will not be climbers.

So, support your contentions with facts or let it go.

Basso will be supported at the Giro by a strong cadre of five climbers - Valerio Agnoli, Eros Capecchi, Damiano Caruso, Cristiano Salerno and Sylvester Szmyd - while Maciej Bodnar, Paolo Longo Borghini and Fabio Sabatini will round out the nine-man roster.

Peter Sagan
Ivan Basso
Vincenzo Nibali
Kristijan Koren
Alessandro Vanotti
Federico Canuti
Dominik Nerz
Daniel Oss
Sylvester Szmyd

[ICEHOCEY77]

wtf is up with velogames.

[montanaskier]

tour was meh overall...now on to the made for $$$ CO Pro Cycling Challenge without any mountaintop finishes.

Oh yeah and the Olympics and Tour of Spain.

[Name Redacted]

Flagstaff is a mountain top finish right?

Is Wiggins in the USAPCC?

[TBS]

wtf is up with velogames.

Weird, no results for the last three stages. Maybe Frank Schleck was the scorekeeper, and now he's busy defending himself?

Congrats on smoking the rest of us in the NBC league BTW. You gapped us big time in the Velogames league too. Froome was a great pick, as was TJVG.

I enjoyed watching Wiggo doing the leadout for Cav again today. Don't think I've ever seen a Mellow Johnny do that on the Champs.

[TBS]

Yes, because the whole sat there and watched him get in the van. Poof go the GC chances for the entire team. Sky did nada in the TDF last year. All Pro Tour teams have to race the 3 grand tours, they only have a choice about who they send. There's no way Wiggins would have raced the veulta if he had done well in the TDF. Sky needed to convince the money people
that their scheme of "all for wiggo" had a chance of working.

And yet, despite Wiggo's broken clavicle and Flecha getting hit by the car and launching into Hoogerland, they didn't do too bad. Sure they didn't do well in GC, but Eddie BH won two stages and finished second on two. Hardly nada under the circumstances.

Liquigas is probably the worst offender, but the core team for Sky did ALL THE SAME RACES and all the same training camps. That's very different than say RSNT where the spear carriers are focusing on some of the week long stage races or the spring classics. You can only peak so many times and for so long in a season. SKY put some very high powered riders that could have gotten results on their own into a support role for the entire season leading up to the TDF.

Wrong. Sky split the team for at least Tirreno Adriatico, Paris-Nice, Criterium Internationale and the Tour of Romandy. There's more than that if you include where just Cav and EBH weren't there.

Basso will be supported at the Giro by a strong cadre of five climbers - Valerio Agnoli, Eros Capecchi, Damiano Caruso, Cristiano Salerno and Sylvester Szmyd - while Maciej Bodnar, Paolo Longo Borghini and Fabio Sabatini will round out the nine-man roster.

Peter Sagan
Ivan Basso
Vincenzo Nibali
Kristijan Koren
Alessandro Vanotti
Federico Canuti
Dominik Nerz
Daniel Oss
Sylvester Szmyd

Ya got me there My bad. I'd never heard of Szmyd until now, but he's actually a reasonably high-ranked rider - somewhere in the low 70's in UCI's rankings

[deeppo]

Good stages but overall there needs to be tougher mountain top finishes. The Vuelta looks brutal this year. I love the ultra steep climbs in the Vuelta and giro which always lead to time gaps. Id like to see a good battle between Froome and Contidore next month.

[reynolds.trailrun]

Is Froome for sure going. He says that he wants to but depends on the Olympics and the team. Maybe ASchleck will be back and at least throw some spice to the mix though probably not be well enough to really contend. Contadore will likely really light up the climbs. That should be awesome to watch.

[Long Duck Dong]

Doping or not, this was the only year Wiggo could have won. Next year when the big names are back Wiggins is going to get his dick knocked in the dirt. You think Contador is going to throw out those half assed attacks that fade 10 minutes later?

Those attacks appeared "half-assed" because Sky had 4 guys capable of putting out 450 watts up HC climbs. Wiggins didn't have to chase down attacks himself save for a few select times just to assert himself. I agree that the parcourse this year was a bit strange, but I think it is a bit shortsighted to chalk up Wiggins' win to the course alone. Wiggins was by far the best in the TT and arguably second only to his own teammate in the mountains. That, to me, spells total domination. If there were more mountain finishes, who in this race would you suspect would be able to put time on Sky? Wiggins was simply never challenged in the mountains because Sky kept a pace that was untouchable. There were still some world class climbers in this field.

I happen to think that, all things being equal, Contador is still probably the best stage racer in the world. I really hope Froome leaves Sky this winter and sets up a Froome-Wiggins-Contador matchup next year. I don't think Andy Schleck can touch those guys, regardless of the course.

One other thought that Wiggins brought up is that this type of tour might be what we should expect going forward while the sport gets cleaner and cleaner. The days of consequence free attack after attack are over. It just isn't possible to ride that way and still recover day to day like the guys in the 90s did with all the drugs.

[hitek79]

I didn't say it had anything to do with the course, I said it had to do with lack of competition. We've been hearing that Wiggins is a contender for years, but he never produced. This year the strongest riders were out, and even then it could be argued that Fromme could have taken him on two mountain stages. I'll put $50 on it right now that if Andy and Alberto are back next year, Wiggins won't even make the podium.

[::: :::]

Maybe I'm simple, but I enjoyed the tour this year.
Very few out-of-competition distractions; we got to see a juggernaut team in action; voekler, jens & vino showed us some guts and aggressiveness; lots of first week energy; Sagan showed he can win at the big show; nibali fought valiantly, if in vain; we were introduced to froome who will be interesting in future grand tours; and a maillot jaune who lavishes his interviews with choice words and advises us to not get TOO drunk tonight.

If you were bored, I don't know how to help you

Yes, some more uncertainty til the last day is always fun, but there was plenty to follow and enjoy


Congrats to icehockey for owning us all!!
(and telebobski for trying to chase him down)

[huckbucket]

Congrats to icehockey for owning us all!!
(and telebobski for trying to chase him down)

Yup. Big props to icehockey. Next year ...


Here's your top ten;

Rank Team Directeur Score
1 Radioshack forgot to pay me too ICEHOCEY77 8772
2 HGH Michael Munno 8295
3 Ferrari PEDlers Telebobski 7326
4 Clean Bottle Boyz Jaypowhound 7248
5 wheely good widers Andrew L 7127
6 Blue and Orange Booker C. Bense 6648
7 coghead coghead 6631
8 Down Valley Dopers DVT2012 6396
9 MCG Racing Matt 6364
10 RLK2012 RLK2012 6325

[Sessiøn]

I can't wait until the Vuelta so everyone can get off Froome's dick. He is at least a tier below Alberto Contador in the mountains. It won't be long until everyone finally realizes this.

[Sessiøn]

Maybe I'm simple, but I enjoyed the tour this year.
Very few out-of-competition distractions; we got to see a juggernaut team in action; voekler, jens & vino showed us some guts and aggressiveness; lots of first week energy; Sagan showed he can win at the big show; nibali fought valiantly, if in vain; we were introduced to froome who will be interesting in future grand tours; and a maillot jaune who lavishes his interviews with choice words and advises us to not get TOO drunk tonight.

If you were bored, I don't know how to help you

Yes, some more uncertainty til the last day is always fun, but there was plenty to follow and enjoy


Congrats to icehockey for owning us all!!
(and telebobski for trying to chase him down)

It was good. People who only pay attention to the GC really miss a lot of racing.

[TBS]

A big thanks to Spanky and Tom for setting up the two leagues. Makes watching the tour more interesting.

[Long Duck Dong]

I can't wait until the Vuelta so everyone can get off Froome's dick. He is at least a tier below Alberto Contador in the mountains. It won't be long until everyone finally realizes this.

Won't really be a fair fight, will it? Alberto has built his whole season around peaking at the Vuelta. Froome has already peaked, along with the whole Sky TdF team. We'll have to wait till the 2013 TdF to get a true sense of how Froome stacks up with with Alberto and Andy.

[TBS]

Has Froome even committed to ride VdE this year?

[XtrPickels]

Flagstaff is a mountain top finish right?

Is Wiggins in the USAPCC?

More of a mid-mountain finish, unfortunately.
I don't think any of the teams have been announced. Just know of those doing training camps right now such as danielson et al.

[Name Redacted]

More of a mid-mountain finish, unfortunately.
I don't think any of the teams have been announced. Just know of those doing training camps right now such as danielson et al.

Teams announced a few weeks ago:
http://www.usaprocyclingchallenge.co...rma-quick-step

I just don't know about Wiggins.

I think the USAPCC should be pretty good, even without a mountain top finish. CB is also kind of a hill top finish so that should be cool. Indy pass twice should be pretty cool too. We are planning on a two day party for that one.

[bbense]

Won't really be a fair fight, will it? Alberto has built his whole season around peaking at the Vuelta. Froome has already peaked, along with the whole Sky TdF team. We'll have to wait till the 2013 TdF to get a true sense of how Froome stacks up with with Alberto and Andy.

You're assuming that post-doper Contador will have the same explosive climbing power day after day. Is there anybody that's come back from a doping suspension
that has been anything like the same afterwards?

[stradissimo]

You're assuming that post-doper Contador will have the same explosive climbing power day after day. Is there anybody that's come back from a doping suspension
that has been anything like the same afterwards?

Fucking-A right. Nobody knows how an undoped Contador will ride. He probably never did a clean pro race.

[Long Duck Dong]

You're assuming that post-doper Contador will have the same explosive climbing power day after day. Is there anybody that's come back from a doping suspension
that has been anything like the same afterwards?

That is kindof my point. I don't necessarily think Alberto is going to be head and shoulders above everyone, and if he is, it isn't really a fair comparison. What top GC riders are going to be there contesting the win? Jauquim Rodriguez? The world's top GC guys will either not be there, or not be there in a position to win because of their schedule this year, including F. Schleck, A. Schleck, Wiggins, Froome, Nibali, Evans, Hesjedal, Gesink, Van Den Broeck, Van Garderen, etc etc etc. In other words, hardly an opportunity to prove that Contador is still the best GC rider, which he very well may be.

In terms of dopers who have been as good once they came back, it is kindof a complicated question. Do you count Levi from back in the day? Pantani's short suspension? Certainly Di Luca came back strong but was probably still doping. David Millar came back strong. Basso came back after suspension and won the Giro. Scarponi came back after suspension and won the Giro. Petacchi was just as good after. Valverde may be on his way back. Etc etc. I agree there is a long list of guys that come back and are not the same, or are unable to come back, but that may be an age/inactivity factor.