The theoretical narrow protest/arg/dps 138 gangrush praxis thread

**Winkler** · 02-28-2012, 09:54 AM

Got some snow on the weekend and took the wootest to the resort to get some more mileage on them. I am seriously stoked on these skis, they are so damn fun in such a wide variety of conditions. Wind affected, chopped up pow has never been so much fun on a ski this svelte, no hooking whatsoever, plenty of float, light and nimble, what a revelation. Especially considering I was using tlt5 boots the whole day. Usually I have to take it easy with the tlt5's in less than perfect fluff, not so on the wootest. Just let them run, business as usual.

Even though these were originally intended for the walking crowd, I think they are a killer resort pow ski for areas like here, the canadian rockies, where a powder day is 10-20cms. Even though I will probably end up using the protest more in a resort setting, the wootest is certainly easier to handle on groomers and bootpacks. I hope these make production cause I would hate to be without them, thanks for making it happen Kidwoo!

**kidwoo** · 02-28-2012, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Winkler

Even though these were originally intended for the walking crowd, I think they are a killer resort pow ski for areas like here, the canadian rockies, where a powder day is 10-20cms. Even though I will probably end up using the protest more in a resort setting, the wootest is certainly easier to handle on groomers and bootpacks. I hope these make production cause I would hate to be without them, thanks for making it happen Kidwoo!

I had no doubt whatsoever about the resort applications. I just personally wanted a better hiking ski. Even here where we get 3 foot dumps like clockwork (most seasons), but only sink in a foot, there's no reason to be on skis as big as the protest. It's the 3ft blower stuff that is the only thing that seemed like they'd put them out of their element compared to the bigger options. Once my protests finally bite the dust, it's going to be a tough decision for me as well.

Glad you're digging them!

**kkashkooli** · 02-28-2012, 01:02 PM

kidwoo & others,

I have been following this thread with interest. Any thoughts yet on how much narrower in width you could take this design? The early take in the reviews indicates that these float almost as well as the Protests but drop ~1lb of weight for touring. Could you go another 13mm narrower to a 100 waist and get to a 7.5lb touring ski? That waist might be a little easier for skin tracks and the width should be plenty for people at my weight of 175lbs.

**kidwoo** · 02-28-2012, 02:08 PM

For me personally, this version is narrow enough and light enough that I'm pretty much done. Boots are stiffer, everyone's standard of 'what can be ridden on hard snow' is much more realistic these days, and the point of this little endeavor was never to cater to the toothbrush handle drillers who think they need weightless equipment to tour 20 miles in a day. After skiing on some dynafit manaslus when they came out, I really believe there's something to be said for 'real' equipment.

For the sake of academics though......I think the shape is valid straight down to a 60mm waist or something silly. It will pivot more and hook less than any traditional ski that ever existed in that size.......but not as well as an 80mm waist version because of float......which won't be as good as a 100mm version for the same reason. I know from skis I've already owned that the 110-115 waist realm doesn't bother me one bit from a skinning perspective. The goal here was to maintain protest skiability as much as possible. I think once you get into the 100mm range, you'll probably start seeing diminishing returns. But that's with a protest as a starting point. If you're going from some karhu/g3/voile/dynafit skinny shit stick that you've been skiing in powder for some reason, a 100mm wootest would probably rule.

For what it's worth, guys like bluehouse have already been messing with this using the same concepts. They've had that monarch ski out for a while and it's narrower than the wootest. Spats here has a pair and speaks highly of them. It still falls into one of the major pitfalls that I was aiming to get away from though (too much sidecut).

**tuco** · 02-28-2012, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by kidwoo

For what it's worth, guys like bluehouse have already been messing with this using the same concepts. They've had that monarch ski out for a while and it's narrower than the wootest. Spats here has a pair and speaks highly of them. It still falls into one of the major pitfalls that I was aiming to get away from though (too much sidecut).

Zactlies, as much as I love my Mavens, this is my only complaint, too much sidecut. Also exactly why I purchased a Protest(plus the fact I love my PB's) this season and my interest in these touring/everyday models.

**kidwoo** · 02-29-2012, 11:32 PM

Finally got some snow in tahoe.

These things are pretty rad

**hrdude** · 03-01-2012, 02:23 PM

Looking forward to more reviews, hope to get a pair for next season.

**PNyberg** · 03-02-2012, 02:48 PM

a bit too lazy to read aaaaaalll of the posts in this thread but. A narrow R/R ski?? Down Skis Count Down V.

**Ted Striker** · 03-02-2012, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by PNyberg

a bit too lazy to read aaaaaalll of the posts in this thread but. A narrow R/R ski?? Down Skis Count Down V.

That really is lazy!

**Onward** · 03-02-2012, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by PNyberg

a bit too lazy to read aaaaaalll of the posts in this thread but. A narrow R/R ski?? Down Skis Count Down V.

Yeah, looked at those and liked what I saw until I read: "Weight 4400g"

If they can lose 500g with a carbon layup next year i'm interested.

**TheDon** · 03-02-2012, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Onward

Yeah, looked at those and liked what I saw until I read: "Weight 4400g"

If they can lose 500g with a carbon layup next year i'm interested.

Pretty sure they already have a carbon layup.

**TheDon** · 03-02-2012, 05:41 PM

unless you meant a pure carbon...

**bouguer** · 03-02-2012, 07:54 PM

Day 4 review:
186 stiff w/ dynafits driven by maestrales.

Sadly i've still only resort skied these things. Between school and no snow in tahoe there's been no touring. Alas, it took 4 days but i'm finally in love with 'em. I think it really took me 3 days to really get used to the center, balanced, happy place these things like to rip from. For me, they don't like to be skied too far forward and definitely don't respond to any back-seating. My normal resort skis are 191 ON3P wrens, which while sharing a nice long turn radius, little else is similar. Driving the crap out of the wrens yields results and great fun, just plowing through anything in your path. Wootests don't seem to like this technique, or my version of it. Once i found that happy middle ground, the skis are perfect. No, they don't destroy the crud and slop. I actually had trouble with them in chopped up snow originally because they're so much lighter than what i'm used to but some stance adjustment seems to have solved the problem.

The shape really does work well. I've had no problems with float up to boot top pow and the taper allows nice quick turns and nothing to hook on. I'm really looking forward to next week and getting a couple tours out of them to get some more experience in this realm. Will report back then.

TLDR: Find the nice happy, centered skiing position and these things kill it.

**kidwoo** · 03-02-2012, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by bouguer

No, they don't destroy the crud and slop.

Then you're doing it wrong

They do the spatula thing where they skip over not truck on through....... We haven't really gotten that snow yet. It's been winter finally but it's also been pretty dense.

But yeah just stand in the middle of the things and think 'turn'. That's all you gotta do. A little shin pressure won't hurt but you don't need to get all ski jump with them at all. The last few days in tahoe have been exactly what these skis are for......kinda dense pow. I want to hoard like 6 pairs of these things in case keith decides to not do any more. I was on my OG protests the last two days and was wishing I had a pair with alpine binders. Thanks to super annodizing aluminum sollyfit plate badass jondrums on the board, that's happening soon. I'm seriously thinking about selling my protests to be honest. Need one super light blower day to be sure though.

Originally Posted by PNyberg

a bit too lazy to read aaaaaalll of the posts in this thread but. A narrow R/R ski??

Except for the part about them having sidecut........

**bouguer** · 03-02-2012, 10:07 PM

You're exactly right. They skip on over all the crud, which really threw me the first couple of days because if the stark difference to the wrens. Completely different way of skiing. Works great though after you expect it.

Sent from my ADR6300 using TGR Forums

**bennettc14** · 03-06-2012, 04:13 PM

Bump. Would be skiing these this weekend if it wasn't going to be 55 and raining in Burlington later this week. Guess I'll have to wait a few more days before I travel west.

More stoke please.

**SchralphMacchio** · 03-06-2012, 05:20 PM

Hey Woo, saw you were up at Tallac in the warm wettish stuff the other day (in the splitboard photos). How did they do there?

**slowk** · 03-06-2012, 07:09 PM

Just a short review and comparison to the Protests.
Got back from a week touring at Sorcerer Lodge on the Wootests. 187cm, soft/medium flex and mounted at 101cm with Dynafit STs. Ultralight topsheet and BPS graphic. For the previous season and a half I have been touring on Protests mounted at 101.5cm.
The snow was deep and light but the avi conditions were bad so we had only one day in the pseudoalpine and the rest in steep trees and pillows.
In the deep snow, trees and pillows I loved the Wootests. Super fun and easy to pivot. In these conditions I never missed the Protests. The Wootests were also way better in the air and very stable on landings. I never wheelied out of a drop like I was prone to on the Protests. Nicer on the ankles on the skin up but still suboptimal for off camber skin tracks.
The one situation I did not like the Wootests as much as the Protests was at speed in wide open spaces. I felt the Wootests were more twitchy and I didn't have the same confidence in them as the Protests. On hard windbuff and avi bed surfaces I thought the 2 skis were equally suboptimal.
After 7 days on them I was very happy. At the same time I might have been really happy because I just had 7 days of my favorite kind of skiing. It might have been totally different experience if we were up on the glaciers the whole time. I'll get back and write an update once I can generate enough good will at home and the stability improves in the alpine.

**kidwoo** · 03-07-2012, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

Hey Woo, saw you were up at Tallac in the warm wettish stuff the other day (in the splitboard photos). How did they do there?

slowk prety much has me covered^^^^

There's something a little off on stiffer snow that makes the tips want to wiggle a little bit. I think it's nothing that a detune and/or further forward mount won't fix. Praxis skis come sharp as shit and I've detuned every pair I've ever had except for these (which I'm going to do as soon as I find my gummi stone). I also think my panic about them not floating was unfounded and that the mount point that keith went with is better than what I was thinking. I think it's also a combo of them just being narrower and it being easier to drive in the edges than the protests.....probably compounds the above mentioned wierdness. I do know I've been digging them so much I want a pair with alpine binders. I've got some sollyfit plates ordered from jondrums and the mount point is going to 100 or 99.5 with those.

But other than that they fucking kill it in the snow that they were envisioned for. That super sticky crap was a breeze on these things. You know what the snow was like last week and I was going back and forth between days from protest to wootest. I'm honestly questioning my need for the protests at the resort. And like slowk, I think they handle drops way better than the protests. I haven't dropped off anything that big but you can feel a difference. There's a tad less rocker (IE flatter tails) than the OG protests and I'm digging it.

**neck beard** · 03-07-2012, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by slowk

On hard windbuff ... suboptimal.

How hard? 2D hard?

**slowk** · 03-07-2012, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Hohes

How hard? 2D hard?

Like softcore porn, only simulated penetration. And by saying suboptimal, I do not mean bad. Just not the best for the situation.

**JeffreyJim** · 03-07-2012, 10:24 AM

I agree with woo that the skis are sharp and need a good detune to perform as they should.

**kidwoo** · 03-07-2012, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by JeffreyJim

I agree with woo that the skis are sharp and need a good detune to perform as they should.

You detune yours yet?

Did it calm that shit down on the grabby no man's land surfaces?

I don't even know what to call the conditions where I've felt it. It's not hard snow like sun/windboard.....they work fine there. And it's not deep thick stuff.....they work fine there too. But I've definitely felt it.