Snow for the Euros.

[Djongo Unchained]

We bomb inbounds closed areas all the time so that they don't release onto skiers below.

edit: obvi not BC...

unable to correct my post above^^^^

[Buster Highmen]

edit: obvi not BC...

unable to correct my post above^^^^

If you in a browser, try right clicking on the edit button and choose to open it in a new tab.
That works for me.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

We bomb inbounds closed areas all the time so that they don't release onto skiers below.

And that's not 100% safe as they occasionally let loose after a thump.

But plainly not the same rationales as in Euro. It's a different deal there and I'll take it as it is. I don't wanna change their scene anymore than I want them changing mine.

Totally - I think controlling terrain (closed or not) that could impact inbounds/piste skiers is pretty standard, for better or worse, at most spots on both sides of the pound.

It’s more the suggestion they should have thrown some extra bombs onto the slope that slid. To me that’d be like tossing a few into places like spacewalk and zero g every once in a while. Which is a suggestion that, on both sides of the pond, doesn’t really happen.

(Of course, JHMR can just fully close the gates, but that’s a different discussion IMO)

[subtle plague]

I'd really like to use Recreational Dynamite in the BC from time to time

I've always wondered why the heli OPs don't throw stuff out the heli, but I guess even in wild AK Recreational Dynamite is forbidden

[nortonwhis]

Does patrol where you live (or anywhere in America or Canada) occasionally toss bombs into the backcountry?

100% they do. A lot of the terrain in the Garabaldi Provincial Park that borders the ski hill is considered backcountry and is bombed. Often the Gemstone bowls and Blackcomb Glacier will remain closed on high avi days until they can control the backcounty via helicopter.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Are they bombing that terrain to protect bc skiers or because a slide there poses a risk to inbounds skiers?

[Djongo Unchained]

If you in a browser, try right clicking on the edit button and choose to open it in a new tab.
That works for me.

Holy schnikies, you fargin genius. That's some backdoor shite right there.
Thanks !

Totally - I think controlling terrain (closed or not) that could impact inbounds/piste skiers is pretty standard, for better or worse, at most spots on both sides of the pound.

It’s more the suggestion they should have thrown some extra bombs onto the slope that slid. To me that’d be like tossing a few into places like spacewalk and zero g every once in a while. Which is a suggestion that, on both sides of the pond, doesn’t really happen.

(Of course, JHMR can just fully close the gates, but that’s a different discussion IMO)

The slope in question looks like closed but prob within the overall boundaries. And therein lies the difference methinks.

JHMR can close the gates but that don't mean shit. One can ski out anytime, anywhere.
And patrol sure as shit ain't gonna chase yas if yer heading out into high/extreme danger.
They can tho black out your pass to prevent lift access. Which would be interesting to hear litigation points on.
Pissing off the mgmnt has it's perils. They'll straight up fuck you over without fleshing out a problem. And they are NOT geniuses out there. Ask me how I know.

I'd really like to use Recreational Dynamite in the BC from time to time

I've always wondered why the heli OPs don't throw stuff out the heli, but I guess even in wild AK Recreational Dynamite is forbidden

We refer to that as M-80's and I have a box awaiting all mags in the waxroom needing some small caliber explosives.
I think tossing charges from a chopper has its concerns, altho it's been done here in JH a few times bitd for Pow 8 comps in Cody.

[Buster Highmen]

100% they do. A lot of the terrain in the Garabaldi Provincial Park that borders the ski hill is considered backcountry and is bombed

NPS in USA does not allow bombing within National Parks.

An old Crustal classic, Kempers, which is technically in Mt. Rainier National Park, has been permanently closed since 1999 when a bomb broke a massive top cornice and sent a class 4 down onto Highway 410, ripping out a section of pavement.

[telefreewasatch]

If you use explosives on USFS land without a permit to do so ya better have a can of white spray paint for a chaser.
So no, they don't permit ski areas to use explosives in their FS side country.
Stops some terrain from being open on account...

[telefreewasatch]

Figure I oughta add to the last post.
One may not close the ski area boundary AT the boundary with federal land on the other side.
One may close ACCESS to the ski area boundary from within the permit area.

[crankplank]

NPS in USA does not allow bombing within National Parks.

An old Crustal classic, Kempers, which is technically in Mt. Rainier National Park, has been permanently closed since 1999 when a bomb broke a massive top cornice and sent a class 4 down onto Highway 410, ripping out a section of pavement.

Departments of Transportation fire shells and occasionally drop bombs from heli's in the National Forests, but thats not the same as National Parks.

Im with DJ. I like the way they do things over there and i like the way we do them here. I like riding the same chute inbounds, boot deep, 3 days in a row in a wasatch storm and not thinking about avalanches. I also like getting sunny pow turns next to the piste in the alps 2 days after a storm and eating huge platters of tubemeat and cabbage.

Alterravail has an ethical but not legal responsibility to make a serious effort to educate American ikoneers about avy safety before redeeming euro days IMO, especially with all the gas theyve dumped on the pow fever bonfire these last years. People are gonna people either way though.

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[subtle plague]

Woah....18 people in an avi in Tirol.


Edit: but not all were affected. " only" 4 buried two dead. Glide avi from above.

Avi level 2 That is bad luck.

[Rossymcg]

Woah....18 people in an avi in Tirol.


Edit: but not all were affected. " only" 4 buried two dead. Glide avi from above.

Avi level 2 That is bad luck.

woher?

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[Mike Pow]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68786994

[Rudimatt7]

Skiing must be good.

[Rudimatt7]

I'd really like to use Recreational Dynamite in the BC from time to time

I've always wondered why the heli OPs don't throw stuff out the heli, but I guess even in wild AK Recreational Dynamite is forbidden

Heli trax throws bombs all season long.

[Djongo Unchained]

Figure I oughta add to the last post.
One may not close the ski area boundary AT the boundary with federal land on the other side.
One may close ACCESS to the ski area boundary from within the permit area.

An example:

In JH, before the boundaries opened around '97, the patrol would set the Far Drift ropeline about 50' inside the actual boundary. That way if you went to the rope and then ducked it, they could bust you for trespassing en route to the sidecountry.
Punishment was pass clipped corners or even pulled for a coupla weeks.
They had a rolodex for repeat offenders.

[AKAnderson]

even though they were skiing in an area that's marked as do not enter?

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Yes; (and this is purely speculation) someone could make the claim that IKON/Alatera pass permanently closed/OB areas are a) clearly marked so that not even the clinically blind could find themselves going through b) European resorts do not take the same approach. Hence, one could make an argument the pass provider has some sort of duty of care to advise persons on their pass of a change in condition. I would guess that there is probably some indemnification either resort to altera or altera to resort on claims but again pure speculation. Even US state by state standards differ on how to handle ski accident liability, despite the fact that inherent risk statement that used to be printed onto your lift ticket/season pass telling you how dangerous skiing is and that by affixing this pass, you could die. Bottom line, those people made some bad decisions by ignoring signage and they paid the ultimate price.

[doebedoe]

Totally - I think controlling terrain (closed or not) that could impact inbounds/piste skiers is pretty standard, for better or worse, at most spots on both sides of the pound.

It’s more the suggestion they should have thrown some extra bombs onto the slope that slid. To me that’d be like tossing a few into places like spacewalk and zero g every once in a while. Which is a suggestion that, on both sides of the pond, doesn’t really happen.
..

I'm not local to Zermatt, but based on WhiteRisk's ATH (avalanche terrain hazard) layer; this slope is not going to hit any marked piste. The ATH layer is built by SLF based on physical modeling of potential avalanche runouts (e.g. we're not just talking about alpha angles). So bombing here doesn't seem necessary to protect slopes; only to protect those skiing off piste in restricted wildlife areas.

[Duffman]

Yeah, looking on the official map that this is clearly marked as a wildlife area,.not just off piste , there is no potential liability here for Altera / Ikon.

I understand that the ridiculousness of the American tort system shouldn't be underestimated, but there is zero here ,at least in this case. That would be the case even in a USA based ski area given their typical liability limitations under state law. If a couple dumbasses ducked ropes into a permanent closure area in a US area and killed themselves in an avy, the area would have no liability. This is before even taking into account that this is a Swiss resort with completely different rules and regulations.

As far as I know, Ikon / Alterra would be very limited in their liability for the actions of an affiliated but not owned / controlled ski area such as Jackson or Alta. This plus the international factor completely makes this concern re: American tourists running Euro ski policies with US lawsuits a bit silly to worry about.

Having said that, while people should be responsible for their own actions, its gotta be a bit of a mindfuck for a typical young ripper from the US west to ski off piste in Europe for the first time and it would be great if there was an easy way to educate people to the differences.

Not like the case here which was a closed area, but a 15 year old expert level skiier from a US big mountain is used to skiing complex steep avalanche prone terrain even on bigger danger days, because patrol works their asses off bombing the shit out of it to get it open safely. If they can't, it isn't open and is marked as such. So I can see how a kid like that could easily get in trouble in Europe not realizing the same level of control is not done and not expected.

Nothing wrong with that and from a liability standpoint that's not the ski areas problem, it's the skiier who should know this. But I use a young ripping kid as an example because that's the type of person who is less likely to appreciate these critical differences. As the multipasses are likely to bring more US skiiers to European terrain, a good way of educating people on these differences ,while not the legal responsibility of the ski area, or even the multipass companies, could potentially help keep tourons safe and avoid potentially hazardous situations . I have no idea what the best way to convey this info would be though.

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[Djongo Unchained]

Risk assessment. It's a science.

Regardless of conditions, ropes, signage, etc. Skiing beneath that hanging snowfield after a dump is the only internal debate one needs to have.
It was unsafe by any standard.

I don't know any 15 year olds that are savvy enough to be making life or death decisions like this one plainly was. Are they out there? Maybe.
And I wouldn't even consider following a teen if I felt it was unsafe, much less an adult.

[Duffman]

Risk assessment. It's a science.

Regardless of conditions, ropes, signage, etc. Skiing beneath that hanging snowfield after a dump is the only internal debate one needs to have.
It was unsafe by any standard.

I don't know any 15 year olds that are savvy enough to be making life or death decisions like this one plainly was. Are they out there? Maybe.
And I wouldn't even consider following a teen if I felt it was unsafe, much less an adult.

100%. This case here was clearly terrible decision making on many levels. That was my main point above, that there is zero liability risk here because of that.




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[skaredshtles]

And I wouldn't even consider following a teen if I felt it was unsafe, much less an adult.

I probably would... but of course, they'd be my own, and I'd be yelling at them the whole time for endangering themselves and me.

[Rossymcg]

any Intel on who actually the 15yo was skiing with?

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[subtle plague]

Next week looks fun. Nordstau incoming.