Dynafit TLT 5 Boot

[Federico]

In terms of lenght the TLT5 is nearly the same of ZZero and Titans... there is a difference in width (narrower) especially on the mid foot and heel. This mean if you have a normal/skinny feet they will fit perfectly... if you have a flat/wide feet they will be painful.. .so better to oversize a shell size in that case.

Just ot avid people thinkin TLT5 is narrow on the forefoot.. its widht is 101mm in size 27,5 ... the zzero line is 104,5mm and the Titan line is 102mm. If you consider that the TLT5 use a 7mm foam liner instead of 1cm theoretically it fit wider than a zzero on the forefot..
But it's a totally different last... so could work great for somebody and terrible for others... depends ;-)

It seems like I may be joining the club and jumping a size going from Zzero's to the TLT5P if it isn't slopland.

I tried putting the TF-X liner in the 28 TLT5P's that I bought yesterday from out of a demo boot and it helped but still a bit narrow on the forefoot. My Alpine boots are generally 98mm last, Dobermanns and Atomic Tracker 130's in UK8/315bsl, my Zzero's are 28's 317mm bsl. The problem I have is the TX liner, it's too thick. On the sides of the forefoot theres a good 1/4" of that foam stuff between me and the shell on both sides which is causing a pinch. If I used a Dobermann liner it'd be ok but then I would lose all the flexibility you get with the TX. Also the TX tongue is causing two pressure points on each side where the tongue runs underneath the main part of the liner, IE where thickness sorta doubles up. With the TF-X liner there's enough room there and I can actually buckle the lower buckle, but the forefoot area is just as overstuffed as on the TX, so if I had to bet I'll probably be staying with the ZZero mold and getting the Green Machine in the fall. For what it's worth I normally wear 44.5 in Italian shoes, except 45 in Sidi Dominator 6.6 road shoe, there the 44.5 gave me foot cramping.

Anyway I've seen on this thread and also heard today that it's not uncommon for Zzero users have to move up a size in the TLT5, not all, maybe not 50% of them but still that it is happening.

[AweShuksan]

Federico, maybe you can answer this mystery.

I recently ordered a 2010 Zzeus in 29.5 and had to return it for a 30. I weighed all four boots very carefully on an accurate scale making sure I was weighing the same components (shell, AT soles, liner and stock footbed). No laces and both boots were warm and dry. The 29.5's weighed 2201 grams each while the 30's weighed 2187 and 2188 each. I would have expected the larger shell size to weigh more, especially considering it should have had a heavier liner too, no?

How can this be explained?

[YB]

In terms of lenght the TLT5 is nearly the same of ZZero and Titans... there is a difference in width (narrower) especially on the mid foot and heel. This mean if you have a normal/skinny feet they will fit perfectly... if you have a flat/wide feet they will be painful.. .so better to oversize a shell size in that case.

This is what I ended up doing. Wearing my new 29.0's right now and think it's going to work. Psyched.

[neck beard]

Patents protect your hard work.

Please make a range of lasts and volumes to suit a range of different feet. It would be a shame for so many to miss out on great climb and ski performance because other boot makers are unable to make a similar boot.

[hilmersen]

The season isn't quite over, but here is my season review of the TLT5: absolutely love it!

I really do not get the critique this boot gets.
- too much forward lean; I am happy with the way it is...if anything I would want more forward angle (when it is steep and hard)
- no need to ski with the toungue. Totally disagree. It is skiable without the toungue, but the performance improves a lot with it inserted. I only ski it without a toungue when the weather is so bad that I cannot stand to put them on, or I am afraid they will blow away.
- cold. I have even used it for kiting in -20c (i.e. windy conditions) without freezing. This really surprises me, as my fit is super tight. I haven't been able to do mid winter camping with it (in Norway)...so the real test remains.
- mushy and bad liners. Disagreee - for me it is supportive. Sure it doesn't have the feel of my surefoot alpine liner, but who cares as long as it is supportive when skiing?

I was also pleasantly surprised I could ski even wide skis with it (105+mm under foot).

What could be better:
- it can be a little soft forward. On hard snow/ice the whole boot can deform. Not a big problem, but an improvement point.
- The lower bucle tends to get caught in the inner tounge
- The velcro on the innerboot should be yellow or some other color than black.
- It can be a real pain to get off - I do not look forward to taking them off in a small 2 person tent!

So what would I like happen:
- I would like to see dynafit make a stiffer tounge as an accessory. A semi carbon tounge would be great for icy conditons.
- An over boot for camping and/or really cold conditions or long breaks

[dcpnz]

Hilmersen,

Which version do you have?

Your comments about them being too soft and the tongue making huge difference make me think you may have the mountain version not the carbon performance but maybe you are a big, hard charging, stiff boot kind of person.
For me the performance is plenty stiff enough for any conditions without the tongue (although i find the velcro booster strap makes a big difference as using that engages the cuff much better)

[hilmersen]

I have the performance - I guess I should have stated that.
Other stats: 184cm, 85kg, x-racer, mostly using them on mustagh ata sls (187). In general I don't like skidding. (Exception is when I am just playing around with features, but then I am usually on different equipment).
The problem is only on ice.

[hilmersen]

Some more info. I don't consider myself hard charging - I seldom go faster than 75km/t when touring...and the problem is just there when skiing slower and more turny on icy sections. It is nothing I cannot handle, but I find that my skiing on ice becomes a tad too mellow/relaxed too my liking.
(See http://www.youtube.com/chilmersen - for videos of me skiing. Unfortunately, non are from conditions where this was a problem (softish and with danger from hidden rocks) - and in the headcam-shots it is hard to see the conditions....but, they should give you a feeling.

[LeeLau]

Hilmersen,

Which version do you have?

Your comments about them being too soft and the tongue making huge difference make me think you may have the mountain version not the carbon performance but maybe you are a big, hard charging, stiff boot kind of person.
For me the performance is plenty stiff enough for any conditions without the tongue (although i find the velcro booster strap makes a big difference as using that engages the cuff much better)

FWIW - I agree with you. I don't use the tongue. Am 75kg ~165 lbs but I prefer soft boots. I don't ski on ice or groomers with touring boots. Have only used them in powder. I found the tongue made the TLT5P's lose "feel". Put that in quotation marks since its hard to describe intangible type of change in the way boot skis with tongue vs without tongue.

[hilmersen]

FWIW - I agree with you. I don't use the tongue. Am 75kg ~165 lbs but I prefer soft boots. I don't ski on ice or groomers with touring boots. Have only used them in powder. I found the tongue made the TLT5P's lose "feel". Put that in quotation marks since its hard to describe intangible type of change in the way boot skis with tongue vs without tongue.

I ski ice, white ice and windpack with my touring boots, as it would be kind of strange to bring my alpine gear on winter tours... One reason I tend to ski ice, is that it is stable. Skiing down an icy ridge is often the safest way to get down - both due to hidden rocks and avalanches. This is typically done from october to february.
E.g.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hilmers...in/photostream (The only good skiing that was done on that tour)

[Federico]

yep, that was the idea of the addional tongue... to be used only if and when you need that... it was not born as a necessary element! ...
We longly discussed if having them mounted on the boots or given on the box or even sold as an accessory... but at the end the boots looked nice with the tongue on ... and we left it there ;-)

I ski ice, white ice and windpack with my touring boots, as it would be kind of strange to bring my alpine gear on winter tours... One reason I tend to ski ice, is that it is stable. Skiing down an icy ridge is often the safest way to get down - both due to hidden rocks and avalanches. This is typically done from october to february.
E.g.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hilmers...in/photostream (The only good skiing that was done on that tour)

[panchosdad]

Interesting comments about the tongues. I started out not using them much. I found though, that without the tongues I needed to crank buckles/strap to get good control, but that made them uncomfortably stiff. I find that with the tongues I get good control without cranking the buckles as tight, and a more even flex with more of the foot (top of the foot, lower ankle) contacting the boot as I drive forward. If that makes any sense.

[hilmersen]

Makes sense to me - and I agree. Hopefully I'll get to tour some in a few days - maybe I'll try without the toungues again...might work better on spring slush compared early winter windpack, but I will bring them,,,,

[LeeLau]

Interesting comments about the tongues. I started out not using them much. I found though, that without the tongues I needed to crank buckles/strap to get good control, but that made them uncomfortably stiff. I find that with the tongues I get good control without cranking the buckles as tight, and a more even flex with more of the foot (top of the foot, lower ankle) contacting the boot as I drive forward. If that makes any sense.

I also found that i had to crank the buckles - at least the instep buckle tight. But that's because i have thin ankles so I did what I do with almost every boot and I taped some foam to the instep plastic of the boot shell on the interior. That gives me heel hold and nice even flex without using the tongue. Basically when i used the tongue the TLT5P felt too harsh. Every foot is different though so who knows really? It's nice to have the options.

[neck beard]

I am a cynic and not so interested in how a boot tours or skis when new or near new after 20 days of weekend use. It is how it performs after 2 full seasons of heavy backcountry usage from cool brown leaf rock season through powder season and finishing again in warm green leaf rock season. Time will tell on this one.

[freak]

no boot i had till now lasted longer than two seasons...


freak~[&]

[neck beard]

As in they were totally unserviceable and could not be used for skiing? Or just showing their age and were no longer nearly as good as a new boot, but they still skied ok for their age? The latter I can handle, and suffer from now. The former is a rip-off. I pay full retail price because I am a normal skier and I'll be damned if I'll pay approx $350 per year on boots.

[hilmersen]

I can see that the liner might need to be changed, but cannot see why the boot should not last for a long while. Climbing and scrambling cuts down on the expected life time...but still.

[Federico]

Unless you made them in iron and steel no ski boot will last for ever... use of plastic and rubber on hard rocks for intensive use will damage any kind of ski boot in the planet. Anyway the TLT5 is showing a pretty good durability and performance level even after two hard sesons of intensive test...and when I mean intensive I mean REALLY intensive... in the european way... so about 140-150.000 altitude meter have been climbed in one season (400.000feet) from some testers.

I am a cynic and not so interested in how a boot tours or skis when new or near new after 20 days of weekend use. It is how it performs after 2 full seasons of heavy backcountry usage from cool brown leaf rock season through powder season and finishing again in warm green leaf rock season. Time will tell on this one.

[YB]

I'm loving my TLT5 P's. Spent 5 hours with them on day 1, 7+ hours on day 2. Then I realized stock insoles were not helping me out. By putting in my e-sole footbed out of my Dobermann's all of a sudden the midfoot tightness/cramp and the slight heel lift I was getting on my right foot all went away and now bsically I have a perfect fit. So I would say everything advice-wise I've heard from Fredrico here makes sense except the "stick with skinny stock insoles". I don't understand what people are doing replacing the stock liner or trying to adjust the forward lean of the boot, but the stock insoles really aren't anything special and I bet some peoples feet will feel better with something that has some arch support.

And as far as skiing the boot goes I don't think it skis much different than my Zzero's, aka, stiff enough for anything but big, heavy freeride skis.

[Andyski]

Me: 5'8", 145#s, decent skier/no hucking.
Other boots I've been on: Factors, MegaRides, Denali XTs (blue ones)
Rig: 178 Wailer 105s (Pure), dynafit.
Impressions (these are performances) after about 10 days on these (2 inbounds, 8 tours -- none of the tours particularly huge): I really like these boots, and can't wait to give them the full volcano slog treatment at which time I'll pass more decisive judgement on their performance.

You know about the walk mode. LikeFuckingSlippers. Incredibly good.

On the down, they feel a lot closer to my old MegaRides (modded with a Raichle tounge, Booster and universal Intuition wraps) than the Factors, which makes sense. They're stiffer and ski better than they have any right to in such a small, light, walkable package (hehehehe), but no one should kid themselves and think they'll ski anything like a stiffer 4-buckle boot like a Factor or Titan. I know this is obvious and the hype definitely seems to have come back to Earth on these boots, but it's worth mentioning.

I definitely notice the flex point in the forefoot while skiing anything besides pow, and wish it wasn't there. Once you're fully engaging the tongue (which I always ski with) and forebody of the ski, it's fine, but there's a jelly-like feeling in advance of that -- however brief. Don't get me wrong, this is a small nit, not a big issue. I don't notice the flex at all while skinning.

The lateral stiffness is obviously very good.

A big bonus of the boot so far is it seems to be a perfect match for the Wailer. The lower cuff and slightly softer overall flex makes the Wailer ski like the more loose and slarvy ski I was originally hoping it would be when it was alleged to be flat cambered. I had long since adjusted to the Factor/Wailer combo and love it, but it's a much more relaxed, creative ride with the TLT5s.

Fitting spring-touring pant cuffs over the upper buckles is a bit of pain, but not devastating.

I still need to log more miles and get used to them given how different they are than the Factors I toured exclusively on for the past 2-3 years, but the early signs are very positive.

Only mods: Blue Superfeet and Booster strap.
NOTE: The BSL on these is MUCH shorter than like Mondo sizes. I had to remount my heelpieces.

[hutash]

Well I made it, I got through all 32 pages of this thread...whew! Somebody needs to make a "Cliff Notes"'version.

I just ordered a pair, but sizes are few a far between, so I don't know if these will even fit me, as there a none locally to try on.

Mostly I just wanted to post in this now epic thread.

My only question is to Frederico...When do you find time to work after skinning/booting 250,000 ft in a season?

[Federico]

Hutash, I work on average 10hours per day...most of the days even more... and also a lot of weekends for business trips.

But I start skiing at least one day all weekends from mid september to end of may (sometimes both sat+sun), plus I have 10 days of holiday around christmas (which this year meant 9 days of skiing), at least 5-7 multi days meetings and events including at least 1-2 days skiing each. Some night ski tour after work, not that many this year as it was super busy, let's say maximum 10 nights.
So it's at least about 60-65days on the snow... consider that I NEVER skin up less than 1.000mt (3.300ft) and some days I skin up even 3.000 (nearly 10.000ft) it's easy to make a rough calculation.
To be precise... suunto altimeter ... this season I did 78.000mt 255.000ft which is a decent number but not that big and easily reachable for somebody working hard during the week that enjoy skiing on the weekends and that has some additional opportunity to ski during working meetings...
This year I lost some weekends...for bad weather or because I took some ski lessons on the resort... but luckily the average morning spring tour march/april was at least 2.000mt (6.500ft).
Some colleagues... are WAY better...some skin up around 200.000mt 650.000ft each season...but those fuckers live in the mountains and in winter they leave their houses directly with the ski on the feet so they are able to ski 4-5 days per week in the early morning or in the evening after work...

That's why we make light boots, bindings and skis... because we like to skin up a lot and we have limited time ;-)

Well I made it, I got through all 32 pages of this thread...whew! Somebody needs to make a "Cliff Notes"'version.

I just ordered a pair, but sizes are few a far between, so I don't know if these will even fit me, as there a none locally to try on.

Mostly I just wanted to post in this now epic thread.

My only question is to Frederico...When do you find time to work after skinning/booting 250,000 ft in a season?

[davieboot]

... but luckily the average morning spring tour march/april was at least 2.000mt (6.500ft).

That is a hell of an "average" morning. Something tells me I'm doing it wrong.

[hutash]

TLT 5P's arrived last night. It sure is an incredible boot, but not sure I need something so high tech. I am still waiting for Maestrale's to arrive.

I am unsure of the fit. In the past I had G-rides in 26.5 stock liners and they were too small. Adrenalin's at 27.0 Power wrap liners and they were a good fit. I currently have Aero's 27.0 with power wraps (I also tried them on with stock liners), and they are way too big. So big even with thick power wrap liiners that I have poor control. So I ordered TLT's in 26.5, and they seem just a tad too small (I have not baked them since I maybe returning them.) The shell fit is 1 1/2 fingers, but I have skinny fingers, so they maybe closer to one finger. Buckled up in skin mode and with a little forward flex my toes do not touch, but in walk mode they feel too short and push on my big toe a good bit. I would consider this a good race fit in an Alpine boot, but an concerned about too much toe bang in walk mode. The fit across the midfoot is sung, but not painful, so I assume baking will resolve that from all I have read here. Obviously my big concern is if I go to a 27.0 shell it will be too big like my current Dynafit Aero's.

Wearing these things are pretty incredible, and the people who say they are like wearing slippers are damn near spot on.