Boycott Grenade Gloves

[ectreeskier11]

Hi Maggots, Jongs and "lurkers"! Tired of phony boycotts, "pack mentality" threads that attack and slander innocents? Weary of this forum being used as the "whine of the week" by crybabies who got their proverbial crayons broken? If the so-called "photographer" in question had used a watermark as does our image posted below, there would never have been as issue. If you are weary of all of this foolishness and yearn for some intellectually stimulating discourse, then come join our fun-loving but responsible bunch of snowriding aficionados who know the benefits of what good moderation brings to an on-line community. I think most all of you will find that our seasoned moderators "keep the bar high" by maintaining a sense of order and decorum, while encouraging quality discussion about our favorite pastime. SEE THIS THREAD to get an idea of what a diverse bunch we have. Coming from TGR, AZ may take a small amount of getting used to as we do have reasonable standards as far as language and image posting that are strictly enforced. The registration is easy and painless, and the rules will be explained in detail during the process. If you are tired of the juvenile goings-on at TGR, all I can say is: "Come join the fun"!

yesssssssss

[stoepstyle]

^ Wat



2345

[ectreeskier11]

wow, seriously? go back to kindergarten dude, you're funny but that's just fucking stupid. and if you hadn't actually outed yourself as an alias to EVERYONE by now, i think you just accomplished it...

[ectreeskier11]

wow, seriously? go back to kindergarten dude, you're funny but that's just fucking stupid. and if you hadn't actually outed yourself as an alias to EVERYONE by now, i think you just accomplished it...

oh shit, AZ wants to play games.

[Crystal_Mt_Dreamin]

Those last few exchanges/quotes confused me.

What's sad is that while the pro photog world should be going apeshit about this whole thing there will be more than one schmuck that will take a job from Grenade with a smile.

[ectreeskier11]

Those last few exchanges/quotes confused me.

What's sad is that while the pro photog world should be going apeshit about this whole thing there will be more than one schmuck that will take a job from Grenade with a smile.

AZ posted original quoted post. I posted yesssss because usually he's funny/whatever. he then deleted original post, probably because he wanted to be on the bottom and not outed by the usual AZ strikes again posts. posted again with the addition referring to TC's facebook group, which i and hopefully most others don't find particularly funny. i then posted my response due to seemingly unfunny nature of updated AZ post. he then deleted second post and posted again. maybe i'm wrong, don't know why else he'd be deleting and trying to stay on the bottom, but he did a pretty good job of outing himself with the TC thing so i'm not to worried about it. summer sucks.

[neck beard]

Sooo... Thin Cover is Greg from AZ?

I fucking knew it!!

[smolakian]

Honestly, this is the first time that I've found out what those dumb-ass stickers I see everywhere in I-70 even mean! (yeah, I know...echo chamber)

Seriously though, it DOES really sound like Grenade likes to play the "try to get away with it until a lawyer actually contacts me" game...Lawyers are expensive and the payout might not even be "worth" the cost of pursuing for many photogs. Come on, they know this...it's risk arbitrage plain and simple and has probably worked for them 9 times out of 10.

[smolakian]

Quote From www.NewSchoolers.com :: User :: Rez4frederick :: "Who gives a shit? I would be stoked if Grenade just used a picture of mine. I wouldn't be demanding money sending them invoices and shit, as long as this guys name is getting out there, he should be stoked. If he really thinks that hes gonna make a living taking pictures then he is mistaken, he should try getting a real job first and work his way into the industry. Its not something that happens over night either. He probably just ruined his chances of ever getting paid for a photo. Im honestly starting to question the skiing/boarding movement, its about fun, not about making money off of every little thing."

WOW! "The movement"...Way to buy into the marketing brah.

It's almost not worth commenting on. But I still get taken aback by the fantasy world that some of these entitled "punks" live in. Apparently the fact that Grenade Inc. was in-turn using the picture to MAKE MONEY, was entirely lost on him. As well as the fact that "the movement" wouldn't exist without an economy to support it. Oh well...down with capitalism and back to hunting and gathering I suppose. Hunting wild boar is way more exciting than skiing anyway.

[bmg97]

This thread is nowhere to be found on the google.

Danno is right.

google grenade gloves suck

[DoWork]

AZ posted original quoted post. I posted yesssss because usually he's funny/whatever. he then deleted original post, probably because he wanted to be on the bottom and not outed by the usual AZ strikes again posts. posted again with the addition referring to TC's facebook group, which i and hopefully most others don't find particularly funny. i then posted my response due to seemingly unfunny nature of updated AZ post. he then deleted second post and posted again. maybe i'm wrong, don't know why else he'd be deleting and trying to stay on the bottom, but he did a pretty good job of outing himself with the TC thing so i'm not to worried about it. summer sucks.

I'm glad you caught it before I did. I'm prone to losing my motherfucking mind when people talk shit about the whole TC ordeal, as that shit is NOT FUCKING FUNNY! FUCK YOU AZ, you stupid fucking cunt!

Edit: AZ, stop trying to fucking friend me, it's obnoxious and you're a piece of shit.

[messerveyphoto]

So yeah I've been pretty quiet about all this at the request of my lawyer...who in all honesty I can no longer afford and with even more honesty, never could....

Thanks so much to those of you who wrote Grenade employees on my behalf....super cool...its pretty funny to read the responses. I can't believe what a total dickhead Joseph Condorelli is to straight up lie in his replies to you. Trust me, Grenade never paid me a single penny, never offered to pay me a single penny, there were no misleading emails or emails that I withheld on purpose to make my side of things appear better. As I said I left out 2 emails that received no reply to try and shorten my blog post. There were no emails between Dustin and I like JC suggests...Dustin is my friend and I see him daily. He would have no need to email me....Dustin apologized for days for the shit that Grenade was causing me. they never attempted to get in contact with me after the fact. Not that I can blame them. Im sure I haven't made any friends at that shitty company. I personally know more than one person on this forum that can vouch for every single one of these claims. I didn't post my blog expecting to be paid. I knew I was waging war and it would be the end of contact with them. I was simply trying to warn other photographers what kind of company Grenade is and what they can expect in the real world of snow sport photography.

Long story short, Grenade fucked me, knowing good and well I wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Anything Joseph Condorelli said to you in response to your emails is a big fat lie and an obvious attempt to save face. Anyone who cares to see the original emails between Grenade and myself is more than welcome to ask me for them.

Those of you who are suggesting that this is somehow my own fault because I didn't watermark my photos clearly have no idea what it is you are talking about. Not to sound like a dick, but maybe try working in this industry for a while before you make such ridiculous statements. By your rules, if you left your bike outside your house and forgot to write your name on it, then I came along and took it home with me....is that not theft? would you be pissed off? would you feel I owed you money? would you blog about it? Scumbags steal things from regular hardworking people. I was stolen from. I wasn't even offered an apology. They didn't even own up to their mistake. To make matters worse, after Jospeh Condorelli and crew stole from me, he (and his piece of shit sales reps) called me names, belittled my hard work and basically told me to beat it. Soooooo....what would you do?

Numerous ex-grenade employees and freelance photographers and artists have written me with horror stories about their experiences with Joseph Condorelli and how they too have been bent over by Grenade.

I would love to politely discuss this experience with anyone who has questions or legitimate comments.
Again, thanks to those of you who offered help and support.

[Corduroy Commander]

Let's see the pic.

So yeah I've been pretty quiet about all this at the request of my lawyer...who in all honesty I can no longer afford and with even more honesty, never could....

Thanks so much to those of you who wrote Grenade employees on my behalf....super cool...its pretty funny to read the responses. I can't believe what a total dickhead Joseph Condorelli is to straight up lie in his replies to you. Trust me, Grenade never paid me a single penny, never offered to pay me a single penny, there were no misleading emails or emails that I withheld on purpose to make my side of things appear better. As I said I left out 2 emails that received no reply to try and shorten my blog post. There were no emails between Dustin and I like JC suggests...Dustin is my friend and I see him daily. He would have no need to email me....Dustin apologized for days for the shit that Grenade was causing me. they never attempted to get in contact with me after the fact. Not that I can blame them. Im sure I haven't made any friends at that shitty company. I personally know more than one person on this forum that can vouch for every single one of these claims. I didn't post my blog expecting to be paid. I knew I was waging war and it would be the end of contact with them. I was simply trying to warn other photographers what kind of company Grenade is and what they can expect in the real world of snow sport photography.

Long story short, Grenade fucked me, knowing good and well I wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Anything Joseph Condorelli said to you in response to your emails is a big fat lie and an obvious attempt to save face. Anyone who cares to see the original emails between Grenade and myself is more than welcome to ask me for them.

Those of you who are suggesting that this is somehow my own fault because I didn't watermark my photos clearly have no idea what it is you are talking about. Not to sound like a dick, but maybe try working in this industry for a while before you make such ridiculous statements. By your rules, if you left your bike outside your house and forgot to write your name on it, then I came along and took it home with me....is that not theft? would you be pissed off? would you feel I owed you money? would you blog about it? Scumbags steal things from regular hardworking people. I was stolen from. I wasn't even offered an apology. They didn't even own up to their mistake. To make matters worse, after Jospeh Condorelli and crew stole from me, he (and his piece of shit sales reps) called me names, belittled my hard work and basically told me to beat it. Soooooo....what would you do?

Numerous ex-grenade employees and freelance photographers and artists have written me with horror stories about their experiences with Joseph Condorelli and how they too have been bent over by Grenade.

I would love to politely discuss this experience with anyone who has questions or legitimate comments.
Again, thanks to those of you who offered help and support.

[messerveyphoto]

it's out for submission with a Canadian snowboard magazine
I'll post it here as soon as it's published

[Pow4Brains]

I'll post it here as soon as it's published

Everyone loves a happy ending.

[booner]

Everyone loves a happy ending.

Word

[DaveTV]

Soooooo....what would you do?

Learn from it and move on..?

[LeeLau]

Those of you who are suggesting that this is somehow my own fault because I didn't watermark my photos clearly have no idea what it is you are talking about. Not to sound like a dick, but maybe try working in this industry for a while before you make such ridiculous statements. .... Soooooo....what would you do?

Gunder made the comment about the watermark. An eminently stupid comment from someone who's a professional photographer.

I would do my best to make sure that internet searches of "Grenade Gloves" and "Joseph Condorelli" show up as close to the top on google searches as possible. Do your best to destroy their reputations. Perhaps you won't be able to do that in the eyes of their customers but you can at least ensure that any professional dealing with Grenade or Condorelli know they are dealing with dishonest people. At the very least ensure that anyone who seeks to employ Condorelli knows that he's been accused of stealing.

And get some legal advice on how to do this without making libellous or defamatory statements.

Feel free to use this as a template -"Theft of pictures by Active Magazine of the United Kingdom, Altitude Media - published by Graeme Kearon Spratley"

http://www.leelau.net/2006/activemag...vemagazine.htm

[Ira]

Posted on Facebook. These guys suck and always have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beaterdit on Facebook
Not too surprised to see this but it really sucks for the photographer. I've got several friends who make their living as professional photographers. They provide us with inspiring images of our favorite things in life but it's not easy and they're certainly far from rich.

As far as I'm concerned Grenade's only real product is marketing, the gloves are certainly crap and logo stickers and people who sport them are annoying as hell. The company is pretty much a parasite on the snow riding community but I never cared too much because I'm not dumb enough to get caught up in the hype and actually buy anything they make.

Now their true colors are really coming out though. The remarks of douche bag CEO Joseph L. Condorelli are incredible as he tries to dodge payment for a photo used on their website. Check it out.

I had to paraphrase since you said it so good... I'm asking permission after the fact. Sorry I missed this, but I've been offline nanlot this summer. My photog buddies pointed this out. Best of luck on resolution!

Ira

[Gunder]

Gunder made the comment about the watermark. An eminently stupid comment from someone who's a professional photographer.

I did make the commit about watermarking:

"I hate seeing shit like this happen. I used to have it happen to me all the time when I first started, but have not had to deal with it personally for at least 5 years now. I think once you become a bit more "established" people are less likely to try to purposely screw you.... that and you tend to get a hell of a lot smarter about protecting your property.

The truth be told, there are a lot of slimeballs out there that will purposely rip off the photographer and videographer's just because they think they can get away with it if they don't recognize there name. Its Bull shit.

While I personally think the photographer fucked up by not watermakering the image, I dont see where he screwed up past that. It is pretty common to show athletes the images after a shoot for there personal archives and for them to show there sponsors. Anyone that is involved in this industry for any period of time, should know and has no excuse to not realize that images need to be licensed from the creator not the athlete. Any legit athlete knows this too and should make sure there sponsors contact said creator. What is extra fucked is this company is built around its imagery, and the CEO has even bragged about them having a strong trademark... this IP is no different than a photographer enforcing ones copyright, so yes Grenade does and should know better.....
Taking the photo down, after the fact is not an acceptable way out, the damage has been done, and they should pay for the infringement.... Photos are licensed based upon exclusivity, once it is used, even for a web site, or blog, its value is greatly reduced.

What really pisses me off is that this is not the first that I have heard of Grenade doing this, and I'm sure it wont be the last."

It is wrong for grenade to jack a shot watermark or no watermark, but I have found from many years of experiance it's best to always have your shit dialed so there is never ever a question. If your in the business of licensing pics, you should take every effort to protect your copyright and that includes being religious about watermarks. As a photo editor I have found 90% of the guys submitting images dont include full meta-data and most dont even include there name and contact info. Dumb. Thats like shipping slides out without your name on it. The more the photographer can do to ensure it is a concrete case and prove that there is no way the company could assume it was not copyrighted work the better.

[buttahflake]

" i did make the commit" Gunder must have been in the Back Seat when they were teaching grammer.

[messerveyphoto]

Grant,

Appreciate the comments....I personally didn't think anything you said was offside whatsoever.

The metadata was properly filled in, with my contact info, upon import into Lightroom. All my photos are. I somehow doubt JC or whoever it was that posted the photo on their site bothered to check for metadata. Assuming they even know what metadata is. Which I highly doubt.

I agree about watermarks. Its usually my practice to watermark everything unless I'm submitting to a magazine. And even then, only if I know the PE or have worked with them before. Unfortunately, in this case, the photo was edited in a rush and placed in a private me.com gallery which I frequently use to show my riders our days work etc. Dustin contacted me asking for the photo and I emailed it to him in haste from my iphone while I was literally on the highway. Hence no watermark. I admit that wasn't the smartest thing ever. I've learned a lesson the hard way.

That said, I don't think a watermark would have necessarily saved the day. Nor do I think a watermark is a foolproof method of protection. Not to mention that Grenade should have and likely DOES know better then to publish photos without first clearing the copyright. My fuck-up or not, they fucked up HUGE and as I said before, refused to admit their wrong doing or even try to compensate me to shut me up.

Watermarks are cool and stuff and again, I agree with you on their importance, but in the end, watermark or not, the onus is on the person/company to make sure they're not infringing on someone's copyright BEFORE they publish a photo. Which I know you don't need explained to you, but it seems that some people on this and other forums can't grasp.

[DaveTV]

Those of you who are suggesting that this is somehow my own fault because I didn't watermark my photos clearly have no idea what it is you are talking about. Not to sound like a dick, but maybe try working in this industry for a while before you make such ridiculous statements. By your rules, if you left your bike outside your house and forgot to write your name on it, then I came along and took it home with me....is that not theft? would you be pissed off? would you feel I owed you money? would you blog about it? Scumbags steal things from regular hardworking people. I was stolen from. I wasn't even offered an apology. They didn't even own up to their mistake. To make matters worse, after Jospeh Condorelli and crew stole from me, he (and his piece of shit sales reps) called me names, belittled my hard work and basically told me to beat it. Soooooo....what would you do?

The thing is, a thread like this in a semi-public forum encourages discourse and solicits opinions which aren't always going to align with yours. So you demean people for offering their opinion? What is the purpose of joining this community and resurrecting this thread, just to have a pulpit for the crusade? I am not offering an opinion as I am not in the business and don't know the details and legal protocols in the world of digital images, nor do I want to get in a pissing contest as I have no dog in the fight.

[systemoverblow'd]

By your rules, if you left your bike outside your house and forgot to write your name on it, then I came along and took it home with me....is that not theft?

ohh its theft alright, but it would still be your fault for not chaining it up.

I don't think the watermark responses were saying it was right of them to use your photo without licensing it first. I think they were trying to tell you that if you don't watermark your photos you will and rightfully deserve to get taken to the cleaners. Just like your bike comment I quoted, you said the same thing but you're blaming the thief instead of the neglectful owner. As wrong as Grenade has been through this drama (new read for me) you have to start taking some of the blame so it doesn't happen again.

[LeeLau]

Sorry Gunder. I misinterpreted your comment.