Not loving Moment Night Trains - Is my mounting point the problem?

[D(C)]

I replaced my beloved S7s with Night Trains, thinking they would retain many of the S7's qualities but fix its shortcomings in longer arcs through a longer radius and less abrupt rocker. I had them out yesterday and I would describe them as feeling downright sluggish compared to the S7s. Conditions were soft corn so while I did not explore the ski's intended pow capabilities, I definitely got some feel on soft groomers and some 3D snow. I felt I could not get them to rail a carve nearly as well as the S7s and the sidecut seemed to have zero sweet spot. I have never tried reverse-reverse but I imagine it might feel something like this. They wanted to drift and wash and there was no snappiness when trying to crank turns. When attempting to pressure the tips to initiate a turn, there was little feedback and they just wanted to drift. Basically, most of the turning was being done through pivoting and very little using the ski's sidecut.

I'm wondering if this is because I am mounted too far back. I was able to reuse old holes and am currently at -6.75 from centre, -1.75 from the line. According to the consensus in some other threads, people seemed to like it there. For those who have played around with the NT's mount point, would going more forward make them better when using the ski's sidecut? I could reuse other toe holes and be pretty much on the line. If this is just how the ski skis, I may decide to find another ski rather than re-drill. But if going forward will help, I'll drill some new holes.

If I did need to shop around for something else, what should I try? The S7s were close but I found them kind of nervous in longer turns and it feels like the tips plow, probably due to the abruptness of the rocker. I want something that's snappy and playful like the S7 but calmer and smoother in long arcs. They also need to be as good as the S7s at carving and must initiate turns nicely through tip pressure. The Bent Chetlers do all that but are too short in the 183. If they come out with the 192, there's the answer. I'm also intrigued by the EHP Renegade. They look super smooth but I found the original 193 EHPs washy and I wonder if these are improved.

Other skis I've tried and crossed off the list are Czar, JJ and Super 7.

[DJ2]

My Trains are mounted -0.5 and I find they carve pretty well. Mounting -1.75 would seem to me to restrict them pretty much only to deep snow, but YMMV.

[FiveLarge]

What didn't you like about the Czar & JJ?

[D(C)]

What didn't you like about the Czar & JJ?

I though the Czars felt exactly like what I'm looking for in soft snow but lacked the versatility of the S7s. I know some characteristics come at the expense of others, but the Czars were just too crappy on groomers and hard snow to be fun at a place like Whistler, even on the best of pow days.

JJs just didn't feel right to me, not quite substantial enough and hooky tails. They're a wimpier, hookier Bent Chetler.

[54-46]

Try 188 CRJs if you kinda liked the S7s but wanted something that is less nervous.

[D(C)]

Try 188 CRJs if you kinda liked the S7s but wanted something that is less nervous.

Have you been on them? The relatively symmetrical sidecut seems similar to the JJ and Bluehouse Maestro, which I found had a certain degree of hookiness in the tails. Although the CRJs are much straighter so that could be okay.

[mountain_man]

I used to think along the same lines as you, I initially found the NT's to be too far forward (mounted on the line) and considered moving them back a cm, but after a weeks worth of skiing i adjusted to it. I also find them to be not very 'snappy' in turns, this i've put down to the lack of side-cut, but they do pivot really nicely in pow.

I wouldn't be selling them until you get into some pow and give them a chance to put a smile on your face.

I think i'll replace the NT's with some Bibbys at some stage just because i feel like i'd prefer a slightly smaller radius to give the skis some more life out of the pow.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

NT's have a very short running length (about 90cm?). I know I wouldn't like then on hard snow.

A few days on Billy Goats last year (and a few previous runs on S7's) were enough to convince me that I don't like tail rocker. But the BG is definitely a sturdier ski than the S7, especially in the tip and tail, and the new dimensions (slightly wider tail) should cure the washiness some folks experienced.

[tahoe_rider]

Have you checked the tune at all??? That could play a huge roll into how the ski is skiing.

@ 1.75 back from the line you will certainly feel a difference but I wouldn't imagine it to be that significant.

[DJ2]

Specs from maker websites:
(not that specs alone tell the story of how a ski might feel)

Night Train: 186 140-123-135 27.4 1260
Bibby Pro: 186 143-115-134 21.9 1430
JJ: 185 126-136-115-133-121 14 ?
Bent Chetler: 183 142-123-134 19 ?
Billy Goat: 186 140-116-125 24.4 1170
Rossi S7: 188 145-115-123 17.5 ?
4FRNT CRJ: 188 130-118-128 28 1200
Maestro: 189 134-118-131 21.1 1120

[nickites]

I have the JJ's and like them, but I had to de-tune the tips and really brutally detune the tails. Basically all of twin of the tail and up the edge to about 6" in front of the widest point of the rear contact point. On top of that, I always remember that they are Jekyll and Hyde skis. In pow, they are Hyde- nice predictable, poppy, any size turn radius, washed out turns or hold-their-line turns. On hardpack they are Jeckyl- hook up with ferocity, very short radius, a little hooky, and a bit skittish at high speed. Really need to get something a bit more one-dimensional powder oriented, but in PNW heavy pow to variable mank, they really can do it all. Radical de-tuning made a big difference for me.