full tilt vs krypton boot info

[mntlion]

The great 3 part boot debate:

So this is all about the differences between the dalbello krypton and the full tilt boots.

If you are reading this to find out the answer the “what is the better boot for me” question the answer is buy the boot that fits YOU best. Not your buddy, not some pro, not the one that has the best features. To do this you MUST see a good boot fitter (not just a guy who sells boots in a big box store) and try them both on to see what works for you better.

Also I’m not directly affiliated with either company. I personally use the dalbello boots, and the boot fitting store that I manage sells the full tilt (as well as other brands). This information is taken from information that the companies and sales reps have given me, and from taking apart many boots over 15 years of boot fitting. The boots tested, photographed etc are a size 25 krypton (295mm) and a 25 full tilt (293)

First a short history lesson: the full tilt boot is not new or a revolutionary. It is the same old design that raichle used for many years, and has a cult following. A full story is avail on the full tilt site.
http://www.fulltiltboots.com/about.asp
Basically the boot was in production from the late 70’s to mid 90’s. Rachlie made a few other models that never really caught on, and in 1996 the company was sold to Kneissl who then used the molds for afew years, then they too left it alone. In 2005 K2 bought the molds and re-released the shape as the Full Tilt boot. This “new” full tilt boot is the same as the old raichle, with the addition of a full intuition liner and a power strap.
The krypton came to the market also about 3 years ago. Design ideas and work from some former raichle skiers like glen plake. This boot is sometimes referred to as a step up from the raichle. I’m not convinced that different is always better.

SO the basic idea of both boots is similar. Both boots have three parts rather then the “normal” two-part overlap boot. It is a lower clog, matched to an upper cuff, with an open throat design, that is covered by a tongue. Both boots have a few parts that are removable and changeable to make the design work for skiers, and almost none of the parts are interchangeable








Tongues:
Both boots have an interchangeable tongue. The FT has flexes from 2 (very soft) to 9 (very stiff). This gives a range from about 50 to 130 for a flex index. The tongue color(s) have no effect on the flex, and are not the same for different years. So black tongue is not always a 6 flex. You have no way to tell the flex other then bending it. For the 10 boot sizes (4-13) each tongue fits about 3 boot sizes and a total of 4 sized exist. The dalbello tongues come in 2 different flexes (80 and 100ish) and a similar range of sizes. The FT tongue has 6 groves to fit the 3 cables that do up around the boot. The Krypton has one groove for the middle cable and the rest is smooth. Both attach just at the toe area by a small metal buckle, and are both easy to change out.

Cuff:
The rear cuff on both boots is again similar. The cuff attachment point is 70mm for the boots sole and symmetrical on the krypton. The FT is 88mm on the medial side and 85mm on the lateral side. Upper cuff alignment is done on both boots thru a removable shim that is under the cuff screw. Commonly, and incorrectly called canting, this is made to help align the upper cuff of the boot to the natural curve of the lower leg. One of the main differences between the boots is the middle buckle attachment point. The FT buckle attaches to the lower cuff and the Krypton attaches to the upper cuff. As a boot is flexed forward, the rear cuff moves forward, and the middle of the tongue stays about the same. So on the FT the buckle tension will stay about the same under flex, while the Dalbello will loosen a bit while the boot is being flexed. Both rear cuffs are also moveable forward and back by using a small shim that fits between the upper and lower cuff. They both have three setting (no shim, thin, or thick shim). Some models also have a rear spoiler on the top of the rear cuff that is both adjustable, and removable for different leg sizes, shapes and skiing styles

Buckles:
The FT buckles are a very unique design that relies on a metal cable (3 sizes, 235mm, 245mm and 255mm) to attach to a plastic buckle that moves on a ratchet. Both the upper and middle cables are the same and interchangeable. The upper cuff has a few different placements for the cable to give it a larger range to adjust. The buckles are prone to freezing up and not being adjustable, and the springs break too. They still work, just not as well. The cables and plastic buckles help to make the boot very light and with nothing on the inside of the boot to catch on rails, gate, trees make the cables very durable
The Krypton buckles are a more traditional design, on the top and bottom, and only the middle used a unique design. All the buckles are on screws and Tnuts so are easy to replace. The catch for the upper buckle is adjustable for 3 different sizes and can be re-drilled to make this adjustable for most people. Some modles have the toe buckle reversed to prevent it catching, and breaking.

Width:
Both boots are listed at a 98mm last (for a 26 boot) but the volume is a bit different on them. I measured back form the end of the toe lug 10cm, and then marked that on the open part of the boot. Then measured from the boot board, to the opening of the boot. On the FT this was 74mm and the krypton 78mm. 4mm instep is the difference between a low and mid volume boot. The internal width is 1-2mm narrower for the FT as well depending on where on the boot you measure.

Weight:
The basic shell weight is measured for a size 25, without the liner (as you should just use the intuition liners and they are the same for both brands). You pairs might be more or less depending on the accessories that you use (power straps, cuff heights, cable size, boot boards etc)
FT: 1.27kg, shell only
Krypton: 1.71kg shell only

Liners:
Well depends on the model that you buy. The FT comes with an intuition liner and the Krypton can come with an intuition or a “normal” liner. If you have the option get the intuition one. It is lighter and warmer then any stock liner.

Flex adjustment:
As listed earlier both boots have a few flex options for the tongue. The Krypton also comes with a small wedge that helps to stiffen the boots flex, by not allowing the two sides of the lower cuff, in the back of the boot, to come together. This can be removed, or used in two different positions. With the FT flex ratings of 1 to 9 and the Krypton tongues and stiffening shims this makes both boots about the same for overall range of flex adjustment.

[emr]

excellent overview...

I went with the ft even though I was originally looking for the krypton. I went with the ft because of the low volume fit and that 4 mm made a huge difference. Also, my bsl is 310 for a 27 which was a little shorter than the Krypton's 27 (I forget but maybe a 314-316?). I tried the size down on the krypton which had a better fitting volume but I would have had to chop off my toes. I also tried both the traditional and intuition liners for the krypton. After trying on multiple kryptons and a few of the other dalbello models I found a ft bb in burlington, vt and fell in love after the first fit. I have about 15 days on the ft with the 6 flex tongue that come with the bb (I also bought the orange 9 flex but really like the 6). Last year I was riding the lange freeride 120 most days and had the scarpa tornado for touring (I haven't used this boot this year because I need to blow out a few areas, went down a size and I loose feeling on longer tours/days).

As mntlion stated, fit is everything. I could care less how great the krypton performs because my fucked up foot doesn't fit that brand. My ft is better than any boot I have ever had due to the fit (I also enjoy how it performs while still remaining comfortable). At a side note I have a 10.5 street shoe.

[mrw]

well done. I own & ski both. The Ft fits me slightly better then the Krypton, is lighter and warmer. I run boot heaters in the Kryps. Performance wise, I would give the nod to the Kryps. When it is time to reup boots, I will probably go with another pair of Kryptons for the slightly better performance and superior buckle system.

edit to add if I am travelling, I always pack the Kryptons because I think the FT buckle system is a bit fragile and I don't want to be in bum fuck nowhere scrounging parts.

[iscariot]

mntlion
Awesome info as always.


Do you carry extra tongues in stock?



I have a 4 and I'm looking for a 6 and a 9 (shell size : 26.0).

[mntlion]

My store has the 9 flex in stock, and I'm just waiting on the 6 flex, both in full size runs. I have a few odds and ends around too.

best to call the store and see

403-762-7220 I'm off for a few days, but anyone can help ya.

Have all the other buckles, cables, heels etc too.

[iscariot]

Thanks dude.

[corn dog]

Good info. Anyone tried to improvise a plastic thingy to stop the rear cuff coming together in the flexons? Poking around with a pair, fit is great but might want to make flex tweaks as the ones I found are rather soft.

[millfiger]

Most excellent mntlion - I've always been curious as to "how much" different the internals of the two shells are. Even though I own a pair of both, it is hard to quantify with merely thoughts - thanks.

Also, question/statement/rumor - Last season I talked to a Full Tilt guy, his name could have been Rob, and we discussed how they are working on a new buckle/ratchet - where they would replace the click-n-slide with a sort of dial to adjust tension. This sounds like an excellent idea/direction to me, as the slider is really my only pet-peeve with the boot. Anyone have any info/rumors about this?


corn dog - I haven't tried it, (and didn't think of it, but now am thinking of trying this) but I believe if you can get your hands on one of the Dalbello rear-cuff-stiffener-shim-things, a little bit of grinding would get it to work at the bottom of the "U" slot. Actually, I very well may try this out tomorrow!

[mntlion]

Good info. Anyone tried to improvise a plastic thingy to stop the rear cuff coming together in the flexons? Poking around with a pair, fit is great but might want to make flex tweaks as the ones I found are rather soft.

you can drill/tnut the upper to the lower cuff: makes it almost too stiff, but a 9 flex tongue is about a 130-150 flex. plus you have 6 other tongues, so you SHOULD be able to find a flex that works...

[mntlion]

I think that the big 2 differences are the instep height, and the middle buckle location.

[squatch]

you can drill/tnut the upper to the lower cuff: makes it almost too stiff, but a 9 flex tongue is about a 130-150 flex. plus you have 6 other tongues, so you SHOULD be able to find a flex that works...

Also, you can use old raichle tongues. I have a pair off the old raichle world cup boot (I've heard "14" on the stiffness number) that are incredibly stiff.

I think that the big 2 differences are the instep height, and the middle buckle location.

My experiences are that the upper on the krypton, in addition to the ankle/heel pocket, are significantly higher volume.

[Benny Profane]

What makes the Konflict worth 100 dollars more than the Bumble Bee pro?

And, I know I posted this before, but it looks like I have to commit and order, because the ONLY dealer I have found does not have my size, or close for try-on. I wear size 12 shoes, so what size is it safe to order?

[haydukelives]

i needed the intuition liner for the krypton (the stock liner sucks,but i bought before the intuition was available) and i got the full tilt for $200 with the intuition,so the shell was almost free.

i really like both,but find myself reaching more often for the ft,so i guess it fits better.
but the sliding buckle adjust has got to go....either it gets stuck and doesnt move at all,or it slides several notches and is difficult to get just right.
otoh,the dalbello feels much sturdier and better built. i think it will be there after the ft falls apart.

[mntlion]

bump for the people who are asking about both right now

[mr_gyptian]

I'm on my first season with the Krypton Pro and ZipFit liners.

all I have to say is wow. glad I made the change.

the way this three buckle boot slams your heel into the back of the boot is amazing.

I did buckle the boot wrong one day, somehow the tongue kind of slipped inside the cuff. the result was my big toe was forced against the front of the boot and a nasty blister/minor frost bite ensued.

the zipfit liner is a little tempramental in the sense that it needs to be hot when you put the boot on. leaving these boots in your truck overnight is not an option.

[AfroMullet]

minor correction:
krypton ankle buckle may appear attached to the upper cuff, but it actually goes through the cuff and attaches to the lower part.

after skiing quite a bit in both the ft and krypton, i find the krypton slightly wider but the instep feels a bit lower. i fit great in a krypton out of the box, but a ft is too narrow through the middle portion of the foot and the 6th toe.

[vail2001]

Has anyone with a D/E width been able to get in these without significant work? I love the heel retention aspect of these boots...

working for me is a very flat foot and narrow heel.

Tried to force myself into a 26.5 flexons a few years ago (normally a 26.5)...the sick red/yellow ones bc that is all I could find (not the wide red/yellow ones). Had to give them to my brother and I am still jealous of them.

[Duffman]

I have a D forefoot (true D, not E) and a really narrow ankle and heel area and have been working on a pair of 27.5 kryp pros. I was afraid of stretching too much initially but they still need one more good punch as the ball of my foot is crunched up pretty good and makes my big toes go numb (not cold so must be nerve compression. I love everything else about them, so the mild torture and fit work has been worth it so far.

[flip]

I have a D forefoot (true D, not E) and a really narrow ankle and heel area and have been working on a pair of 27.5 kryp pros. I was afraid of stretching too much initially but they still need one more good punch as the ball of my foot is crunched up pretty good and makes my big toes go numb (not cold so must be nerve compression. I love everything else about them, so the mild torture and fit work has been worth it so far.

I'm a D width (E without a footbed) with a very high instep, and the kryptons fit me fantastically, even down a shell size (with a slight grind for left big toe). Street 8.5/9 in a 25.5. Didn't need any width work, but I was coming from a Salomon Course (26.5), so maybe I'm used to narrow boots.

[Yukonrider]

Fulltilt has this thread on their news page


http://www.fulltiltboots.com/

dont know if anyone has noticed or not. Good job Mntlion

[tSki]

What makes the Konflict worth 100 dollars more than the Bumble Bee pro?

And, I know I posted this before, but it looks like I have to commit and order, because the ONLY dealer I have found does not have my size, or close for try-on. I wear size 12 shoes, so what size is it safe to order?

I wear a size 12 shoe also and ski a 28 FT. I had the 29s but after the liner packed out they were way to big. After molding the 28s and a bunch of days skiing they fit great.

[haydukelives]

Fulltilt has this thread on their news page


http://www.fulltiltboots.com/

dont know if anyone has noticed or not. Good job Mntlion

the boots have some great features,but their customer service is minus 10

[factionride]

Anyone running around with Kryptons on, and a Jester binding? Any problems with the boot tongue profile and wing interface?

[Duffman]

Mine are in a Baron without any problems so far.

[ArtVandalay]

anybody know how far the ID liner with compress too when heat molding?

Just picked up Kryptons, tried them on and I have pretty intense pressure points across the top of my foot....obviously this is just trying them on quickly out of the box.