Is it a bad idea to get only 2 winter tires?

**dipstik** · 11-23-2008, 09:56 AM

I know nothing about cars, hoping someone can give me a bit of guidance.

The car is an '03 Mazda tribute (small SUV), ~55k, original tires. The guy at the service center tells me my two front tires are in dire need of being replaced, but that the two rear tires are fine and will probably last through the winter.

So my question is, would it be ok to just put on two winter tires, and leave the other two all-season tires on there for the winter? Or would that defeat the purpose of winter tires?

If I get four new winter tires, then come springtime I will have to buy two new all-season tires. Seems like a lot of tires.

Lastly, if I do only get two winter tires, should they be on the front or rear wheels? Car does not have ABS, but it has some traction control "rear differential locking" system, but I have no idea what that means.

Any help is appreciated.

**jon turner** · 11-23-2008, 10:05 AM

If its 4 wheel drive, 4 snow tires is recommended. If it's 2 wheel drive, you can put studless snow tires on the drive wheels and all season tires on the non-drive wheels, but the all seasons need to be decent, which it sounds like they are. If you have two snow tires and two bald tires, you will spin if you're not careful (I've been there).

**hemas** · 11-23-2008, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by jon turner

If it's 2 wheel drive, you can put studless snow tires on the drive wheels and all season tires on the non-drive wheels, but the all seasons need to be decent, which it sounds like they are.

Ummn.. no, best tire always in the back, no matter if the car is a FWD or RWD.

**Snow Dog** · 11-23-2008, 10:22 AM

Like hemas said, the best tires go on the back because oversteer (the back slides out) is bad. Four winter tires on rims is easy to swap out and will last for years.

**huge-go** · 11-23-2008, 10:24 AM

People often get scared of spending so much money on winter tires AND their regular tires. But remember, if they get properly rotated every season, then both sets of tires will last a lot longer, because you're not driving on the same set all year. You might end up breaking even, or spending a little more for better winter traction.

**karpiel** · 11-23-2008, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by hemas

Ummn.. no, best tire always in the back, no matter if the car is a FWD or RWD.

True dat, was proven in tests and is what tire manufacturers recommend. If you can't get moving with the all seasons in front or don't feel safe with them, why would you want them in the rear? Just get all four replaced.

**focus** · 11-23-2008, 10:51 AM

4 is always better than 2.

That said, if I could only have 2, I'd put them on the front. You can't convince me that the chance of swapping ends in an emergency outweighs the ability to stop, steer, and/or go to avoid getting into an emergency situation in the first place. Call it willful idiocy if you want.

**hemas** · 11-23-2008, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by focus

Call it willful idiocy if you want.

I will, 1st hard breakin' and you'll be going backwards after doing a rather nice 180... At least you'll have a lot of bigger crumbler area.

**focus** · 11-23-2008, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by hemas

I will, 1st hard breakin' and you'll be going backwards after doing a rather nice 180... At least you'll have a lot of bigger crumbler area.

I can tell you with 100% confidence that having the snows in front instead of back has allowed me to both stop before and steer out of bad situations in ways that would not have been possible w/ the snows in back -- and has never caused me to swap ends under hard braking. I recognize that as anecdotal.

Anyhow, as to the OP, it's absolutely a bad idea, and I no longer will run with mismatched tires; especially with my family on board.

**XXX-er** · 11-23-2008, 11:12 AM

A few winters ago when I was a road warrior I witnessed and was 1st on scene at 3 rollovers in one season .

So I always buy 4 studded hak's which are arguably the best snow tire in the world ,if you have the car more than 2 years the rims pay for themselves in tire change-over fees

The rationalization for buying 4 snows on rims IS you could take a trip to the ditch (costs more than the tires )or die in an accident (priceless)

**Jer** · 11-23-2008, 11:20 AM

Do not argue with a Finn when it comes to snow tires. I'm serious. And vodka too.

**SeatownSlackey** · 11-23-2008, 11:20 AM

Seriously, 4 tires. no excuses when some budget snows can be had for $58/tire for your ride.

based on you OP you sound extremely budget conscious so get 4 snows along the lines of those i've hyperlinked, mount em on cheap steel rims and have a dedicated winter set for years.

**Ted Striker** · 11-23-2008, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

...if you have the car more than 2 years the rims pay for themselves in tire change-over fees

The rationalization for buying 4 snows on rims IS you could take a trip to the ditch (costs more than the tires )or die in an accident (priceless)

Exactly. Plus, that way you can have good summer tires too - "all-seasons" is a BS marketing term. Might as well say "huge-compromise".

**hemas** · 11-23-2008, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by pisteoff

Exactly. Plus, that way you can have good summer tires too - "all-seasons" is a BS marketing term. Might as well say "huge-compromise".

Bingo...

Oh, and here's an interesting factoid... My summer Nokians are actually marketed as "all-seasons" in NA. While they are good in summer, they are actually horrid when the temps drop below freezing...

**Tunco** · 11-23-2008, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by hemas

I will, 1st hard breakin' and you'll be going backwards after doing a rather nice 180...

Do a 180 and the snows are in the back, problem solved.

**uglymoney** · 11-23-2008, 01:34 PM

Its a simple law of vehicle physics: Tires with the least amount of traction will always lead in a slide. This means that if you are going around an icy corner with snows on the front the rear end will break loose first and your ass end will be leading you down the road if you're still on it. Even if all four tires loose traction at the same time the all season tires will still lead - causing a spin. With snows on the back and summer tires on the front your car will go into an understeer rather than a slide.

Both of the above scenarios are most likely to happen while you are traveling around a corner at a safe speed and then for some reason have to use the brakes. This braking traction is added to cornering traction and might demand more traction from the tires than they can provide, which results in the slide.

If you must get 2 snows put them on the back. That way if you do enter a slide the tires with the least amount of traction will be on the front of your Mazda therefore according to the law it will continue to lead, which is a good thing. Better option buy four snows now and two all seasons next spring when you put your summer tires back on.

This doesn't hold true just with snows. All season tires vary drastically in the amount of snow and ice traction they offer. Any time you have two kinds of tires on a car you have to figure out which ones have the best snow and ice traction and put them on the back.

My two cents. You can get away with snows on the front if your extremely careful to not outdrive the rear tires, but without tons of parking lot practice your not going to know where the limit is at. When/ if they break loose in a turn on the road it is game over unless you have room to throttle your way out of the spin.

**Snow Dog** · 11-23-2008, 01:58 PM

Just to add to the silliness: in BC the Motor Vehicle Act specifically states that with two winter tires they must be on the drive wheels. It's a little out of date.

edit; And just to be extra clear, a Winter tire has the snowflake on the mountain logo:

A tire labeled as M + S doesn't count.

**wrinkledpants** · 11-23-2008, 03:13 PM

Last time I was at Tires Plus, they would not mount the two new snow tires (in addition to the 2 I already had) on the front for reasons stated here.

I'm going to have to agree with focus on mounting the snows on the front. But to me, it's pretty easy to keep a front wheeled drive vehicle going in the right direction even if the back end is all over the place. I think growing up and pulling the e-brake really helped in getting accustomed to slides.

That said, unless you are a very confident driver, I would probably mount them on the rear to prevent yourself from spinning like a top.

**toast2266** · 11-23-2008, 03:16 PM

This whole "tires with better traction go on the back" thing has me confused. I'll throw up a disclaimer I don't really know what I'm talking about, and anything I write here is just from my experience...

uglymoney's post above makes perfect sense in terms of describing what can happen; oversteer w/ winter tires on front vs. understeer w/ winter tires on back, but it seems like you'd want the good traction on the wheels that are steering you. This is mostly based on spending a lot of time driving pickup trucks. Without any weight in the bed, the rear end of my truck breaks loose pretty easily. This is fairly easy to manage though; just keep the front tires pointed up the road, and as long as the fronts don't break loose, going around a corner a bit sideways isn't the end of the world. However, when I've had shitty tires on the truck and the front broke loose first, it was much harder to maintain control. I would find myself in a massive understeer situation where there wasn't much I could do to correct it (since my steering was rendered fairly useless because I was sliding).

Basically it seems like a back end that likes to break loose is a lot easier to manage than a front end that is prone to slipping; if you end up doing a full 180 because the rear end breaks loose, then you were either driving waaay to fast for the conditions, or you just suck at driving. So what am I missing here?

**focus** · 11-23-2008, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by toast2266

So what am I missing here?

The random idiot -- slam on the brakes when things get hairy -- factor. Which describes most people who aren't accustomed to driving on slick surfaces or who don't spend time at the track.

I'm with you, that I'd rather my ass-end break loose than my front.

**FREESKIER_FIVE-0** · 11-23-2008, 03:39 PM

I would rather my ass-end break loose. Except when going down hill, like Teton Pass for Instance. I think thats where the best traction needs to be on the back comes into play. Down hill sections.

**uglymoney** · 11-23-2008, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by FREESKIER_FIVE-0

I would rather my ass-end break loose. Except when going down hill, like Teton Pass for Instance. I think thats where the best traction needs to be on the back comes into play. Down hill sections.

Bingo. Forced braking on downhill corners. Hard or impossible to throttle out of. Spins go uncontrolled very easily. I'm thinking of a couple of the turns that come down off Targhee as well.

I'll throw out another option. Put snows on back, buy chains/cables for the front for when conditions are extremely slow and sketchy and you really need the drive traction.

Finally, I'm not the prick that sits behind his computer telling other people what to do with their cars. I'm just giving my two cents. Most people in this thread are making good points and are smart enough to make their own decisions.

**Sirshredalot** · 11-23-2008, 04:21 PM

If you have an awd setup, you probably need to have similar tires on all 4, both in terms of tread type and in terms of wear, in order to avoid thrashing your diff.

**XXX-er** · 11-23-2008, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Jer

Do not argue with a Finn when it comes to snow tires. I'm serious. And vodka too.

the finns know how to make snow tires period

BUT ,from half a dozen past experiance's I would be careful ANYTIME you are drinking with a finn cuz it always seems to go seriously crazy .

I also had a finnish /irish girlfriend and that was a decidely bad combo when it came to drinking or arguing but she was hot and at least I did learn the proper pronuciation for suana

triva time:did you know the 2nd largest population of finns in the world is in thunder bay ontario ?