espresso making mags?

[tgapp]

My Baratza Sette started spazzing out when connected to power today. A flashing screen is combined with constant grinding with no way to stop it.

Any ideas on where to start with this? Baratza support ticket system seems to be currently under maintenance.

90% of the reasons to get a Baratza is because of their customer support. Find out how to get in touch with them and I guarantee they will make it right with you.

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[tgapp]

^^ yeah, I started reading about the niche, that lead to “reviews” about the “niche killer” aka df64, that lead to looking at the df83, then the online chatter drifts to the timemore which as far as i can tell remains a crowdfunding hope and dream. I get all excited by these $600 chinese made grinders that with just a quick easy $300 burr upgrade claim to outperform the old $3k Italian grinders of old. Then somewhere someone says if you’re going to spend that much just get a Lagom P64 / Zerno Z1/ Kafatek Monolith / Acacia Orbit / Weber Key etc none of which I’d ever heard of so now I gotta research them and find out they’re $1.5 - 2.5k and unobtanium until like 2026……….

I think that my Weber Key (considered a great deal by many at $2k) is only marginally better than a Niche, and it has a noticeably worse workflow. If I had known they were practically sixes, there's no way I would have gotten the Key. The fact of the matter is that the Niche represents the point on the scale of diminishing returns where almost all consumers will be more than happy. And - it's not just the grind quality (which is excellent), it's the retention, the workflow, and the build quality.

Even with everything else on the market, it's stupid hard to beat a used Niche Zero for $450-500.

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[GBB]

Right on. Thanks tgapp.

[jm2e]

. And - it's not just the grind quality (which is excellent), it's the retention, the workflow, and the build quality.

It’s a damn sexy grinder. Like something Steve Jobs would design, surrounded by a bunch of science class homemade robots. I’ve seen very few grinders that a non-coffee drinking spouse would tolerate on their kitchen counter. The Fellow Ode achieves the same thing for pourover.



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[jackattack]

It’s a damn sexy grinder. Like something Steve Jobs would design, surrounded by a bunch of science class homemade robots. I’ve seen very few grinders that a non-coffee drinking spouse would tolerate on their kitchen counter. The Fellow Ode achieves the same thing for pourover.



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Exactly my thoughts. The extra coin for the design aesthetic is worth it.

Is the Ode the equivalent value as the Zero for brewed coffee? I would brew more if I didn’t have to adjust the grinder.

[tgapp]

Exactly my thoughts. The extra coin for the design aesthetic is worth it.

Is the Ode the equivalent value as the Zero for brewed coffee? I would brew more if I didn’t have to adjust the grinder.

I don't think so, honestly. If you do the Ode 2.0 and upgrade to the SSP burrs, sure, but then you're in Baratza Vario territory.

My money is on the Timemore Sculptor 078s as the "Niche for brewed coffee" 78mm hybrid burrs (between flat and ghost), decent workflow, low retention. I should have mine later this month or early next, and I can report back.

Drinking Prodigal's Columbian Pink Bourbon (Anaerobic Natural) as an SO espresso today. Tastes like candied grapefruit. Amazing espresso.

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[rod9301]

What is workflow?

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[tgapp]

What is workflow?

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Are you asking what my workflow is? Or what workflow is generally speaking for a home espresso enthusiast?

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[neufox47]

I’ve loved my Ode. Use it everyday. The high end burrs do take a while to break in. I noticed that the flow rate of water through the drip basket increased after about 10lbs of coffee had went through it. I believe this is due to more fines in the beginning.


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[tgapp]

I’ve loved my Ode. Use it everyday. The high end burrs do take a while to break in. I noticed that the flow rate of water through the drip basket increased after about 10lbs of coffee had went through it. I believe this is due to more fines in the beginning.


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Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a bad deal - or a bad grinder - at all. Very solid choice. Just not a clear genre-breaking insane price point grinder. At $500 you have a few options, and the Ode is definitely a great one. I fucking love everything I have from Fellow.

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[Boissal]

Even with everything else on the market, it's stupid hard to beat a used Niche Zero for $450-500.

Or, dcpnz could buy my tricked out DF64 for cheap so I have a reason to buy a DF83...
Buddy of mine bought a Lagom cause he didn't want to support brands like Turin that steal other brands designs (fair). We have the same machine, he brought some beans over to compare grinders and left the house dejected that he couldn't tell the difference between his $1600 grinder and the one I paid about 1/4 as much for...

[dcpnz]

Weber Key (considered a great deal by many at $2k)

Online coffee forums are full of people with multiple $2k and $3k grinders and same in espresso machines - seems totally bonkers to me but then again they probably think the # of pairs of skis in my garage is stupid too

Or, dcpnz could buy my tricked out DF64 for cheap so I have a reason to buy a DF83....

Not a terrible idea - I am pretty close to ordering a DF64 v5 - $335 shipped for the latest version seems pretty damn compelling

[rod9301]

Are you asking what my workflow is? Or what workflow is generally speaking for a home espresso enthusiast?

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Generally speaking

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[tgapp]

Generally speaking

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Virtually all high end grinders are single dose grinders, and so most folks who are doing this at some level of nerdery do something like this, which is my workflow on the Key:

1. Measure your coffee on a scale. I use around 19-19.5 grams
2. Spritz it with water. This helps with static and keeps the grounds from clinging to your grinder
3. Brush the chute from your grinder clean
4. Empty beans in, turn on your grinder, grind coffee
5. Dump your coffee into your portafilter (or grind right into it)
6. Using a dissection needle tool, break up any little clumps in your portafilter.
7. Level, tamp, polish
8. Pull your shot

When I had a niche I did not have to do steps 2 and 3. That grinder has god tier retention, but I would feed a bean or two through before putting my dose in.

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[rod9301]

Virtually all high end grinders are single dose grinders, and so most folks who are doing this at some level of nerdery do something like this, which is my workflow on the Key:

1. Measure your coffee on a scale. I use around 19-19.5 grams
2. Spritz it with water. This helps with static and keeps the grounds from clinging to your grinder
3. Brush the chute from your grinder clean
4. Empty beans in, turn on your grinder, grind coffee
5. Dump your coffee into your portafilter (or grind right into it)
6. Using a dissection needle tool, break up any little clumps in your portafilter.
7. Level, tamp, polish
8. Pull your shot

When I had a niche I did not have to do steps 2 and 3. That grinder has god tier retention, but I would feed a bean or two through before putting my dose in.

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Thanks this is what i do too


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[jackattack]

1:3 ratio shots have been my go-to in the afternoon. Much nicer to sip with a sandwich than a more concentrated ratio.

This is a Nicaragua Suyatal - Reko Onancho Yirgacheffe blend. Great body, floral and fruity.

[Doremite]

1:3 ratio shots have been my go-to in the afternoon. Much nicer to sip with a sandwich than a more concentrated ratio.

This is a Nicaragua Suyatal - Reko Onancho Yirgacheffe blend. Great body, floral and fruity.

In 56 seconds so no pre-infusion, just a slow build to 9?

[jackattack]

6sec pre infustion, I think it’s the default. Start with a high flow rate and build pressure to 9bar then taper off flow to decrease pressure in a more or less linear fashion. I try to time it so that i cut the flow just before I get to 60 and avoid too much blonding. I don’t pay much attention to time.

I’m still dialing in the process, but I’ve moved away from the long pre infusion to approximate a lever machine. I picked up the idea from Lance Hendrick. https://www.instagram.com/p/CzQ4NvzO...RlODBiNWFlZA==

[lowsparkco]

Always thought 30 to 35 seconds was the gold standard?

The PID I installed on the Rancilio Silvia I use at home runs a pre-infusion, but I think it’s about 3 seconds. I wouldn’t say it mimics the pre-infusion of the La Pavoni EP I used for years because it flushes water onto the puck then waits. With the lever you have the pressure from the boiler while the lever is all the way up. You typically just don’t start applying pressure to the lever until some water soaks into the puck or you end up with ristrettos.

[Doremite]

6sec pre infustion, I think it’s the default. Start with a high flow rate and build pressure to 9bar then taper off flow to decrease pressure in a more or less linear fashion. I try to time it so that i cut the flow just before I get to 60 and avoid too much blonding. I don’t pay much attention to time.

I’m still dialing in the process, but I’ve moved away from the long pre infusion to approximate a lever machine. I picked up the idea from Lance Hendrick. https://www.instagram.com/p/CzQ4NvzO...RlODBiNWFlZA==

Thanks, was just curious. I’ve been running 70-80 seconds for 45-55g out / 18g in. Build for about 1/3 of that extraction time (mostly pre-infusion), sit at 9 for 1/3 and ramp down for the final 1/3. Roughly.

Always thought 30 to 35 seconds was the gold standard?

If my above method includes ~35 seconds at 1.5-2 bar of pre-infusion time, I am not too far off a ~35-45 total extraction time with about ~15 seconds of that backing the bar down from 9 to 0. Roughly. Using flow control. Pretty sure Jack and I have the same tgapp inspired set up.

[rod9301]

I use 18g in, and i get 15-18g out in 30 seconds. Tastes pretty good.

For all you guys that get as lot more out, doesn't it taste bitter?

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[Doremite]

I use 18g in, and i get 15-18g out in 30 seconds. Tastes pretty good.

For all you guys that get as lot more out, doesn't it taste bitter?

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1:1 ratio is kicking it old school - but if that works for you go for it. Keep in mind with time ticking away during pre-infusion, slowly controlling the time it takes to build to 9 bar of pressure and intentionally backing down pressure slowly before killing the shot, an 80 second extraction may only see 15-20 seconds at 9 bars so the total time in itself doesn’t risk bitterness. But, yeah, running a 40+ second shot almost entirely in the high bar range would be bitter and gross. I shoot for knee buckling smoothness myself

[tgapp]

Glad to hear other people like 1:3's. I don't weigh most of my shot outputs anymore, but I just weighed one and I was 19g in, 54g out. Just did it til it blondes. 40 second shot.

Jackattack got me on the no preinfusion train and I gotta say, it's working really well. Today I did a Columbian anaerobic pink bourbon from Captain's - juicy grapefruit candy is the vibe. I still probably should wait another few days off roast, but ain't nobody got time for that.

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[Doremite]

Glad to hear other people like 1:3's. I don't weigh most of my shot outputs anymore, but I just weighed one and I was 19g in, 54g out. Just did it til it blondes. 40 second shot.

Jackattack got me on the no preinfusion train and I gotta say, it's working really well. Today I did a Columbian anaerobic pink bourbon from Captain's - juicy grapefruit candy is the vibe. I still probably should wait another few days off roast, but ain't nobody got time for that.

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So for 40s seconds, is that roughly evenly split amongst building from 0-9, sitting at 9, backing off from 9-0? Assuming with less saturation in the pre-infusion process grind it a tad more corse than when intentionally slow playing puck saturation?

[tgapp]

So for 40s seconds, is that roughly evenly split amongst building from 0-9, sitting at 9, backing off from 9-0? Assuming with less saturation in the pre-infusion process grind it a tad more corse than when intentionally slow playing puck saturation?

No it's using the Lance Hendrick method that jackattack posted above. No preinfusion, starting at full blast until you reach pressure and then moving the needle back to barely open and letting the pressure gradually decline

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