AT boots, any bad experiences?

[SP_sam-O]

EDIT:does anybody like touring in alpine boots? i know for the park ill be doing(from 4-10 when most lifts close, but still occacionally some night backcountry)id like the alpine boots alot more, and the downhill skiing part of the more gnarly backcountry ill like alpine more. Some people tour in alpine boots, besides the loss of walk mode, any bad thing(i wont be walking on rocks/etc.)





In a week ill be going to try on AT boots at pro ski seattle. They have lots so ill find one that will be good. Any to stay away from for any reason?(this will be my first AT boot)

ill be using it as my only boot this year and heres my quiver: 188 coomba/duke, 181 chronic/914, 170 rossi scratch something/marker?, and head 170 gs skis, so the boot will be used mainly for sidecountry or skins <1.5-2 hours, inbounds powder, lots of bootpack hiking, and park when its not worth hiking or when its 9:30 at night, and a few after season day skins.
I am flat footed, but not really really wide feet, and about a size 12 shoe.(and i know just cause a boot is good doesnt mean it will fit me), and for referance last year i liked my Salomon falcon 10's a good amount/good fit.
THANKS!

[mntlion]

sounds like you have it dialed, find a good boot fitter and let them find you a good boot,

all boots work for SOMEONE, just is that you

[Cruiser]

Well, you have the right idea with going to a good ski shop to try things out. I'd encourage you to stay away from the 3 buckle + power strap style in favor of the 4 buckle + power strap ones. I skied for most of a season in 3 buckle AT boots from Garmont and found myself backing off a bit in steeper terrain and deeper snow. Also, if you want the option down the road of going the dynafit route then your choices in boots will be a bit more limited. I often wish that I had bought a pair of AT boots with the dynafit fittings, but alas I didn't so I'll be rocking the freerides till they explode. Good luck!

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Personally I wouldn't want to ski in an AT boot 100% of the time, then again I have never used any of the newer 4-buckle alpine style AT boots.

If you are used to skiing sloppy packed out alpine boots then you will probably like a new AT boot, but if you are used to a super stiff and not packed out alpine race boot then you will probably think just about any AT boot will not be stiff enough.

[Fuorilegge]

I ski in my Spirit 4s and really enjoy it, both for AT and Alpine.

[soylent green]

I agree with Cruiser. Go with Dynafit compatable boots right off the bat. It will save you money when you eventually go that way. Careful of the cheap boots you see on STP. The newer stuff is way better.

[AsheanMT]

Third on the dynafit route. Your bootfitter is going to recommend (if not demand) that you get footbeds. Don't think he/she is trying to just get more money out of you. FOOTBEDS ARE KEY! I recommend going the custom route and get some corks. They'll last you forever. As far as boots go just get the one that fits the best but definitely stay on the four buckle stiffer side of things since you'll be using them for inbounds as well as out. I got some Megarides last year with the idea of using them for bc and lift access while keeping my salomon alpine boots for my inbounds days. I was so damn comfortable in my megarides and felt that I had all the control I needed while pushing around my fat BRO's that I never put my alpine boots back on. Everybody is different on that one, like Whiteroom said above, if you are use to super stiff and tightly fit alpine boots you'll prolly think AT boots can't give the same performance but if you're used to loose fitting boots that are sloppy you'll notice a huge difference in the performance of your new AT boots.

[eldereldo]

As I noticed you are planning to use these with regular bindings as well as AT then you are going to need a boot with a DIN compatible sole, I think that is going severely limit your selection. Trying to add dynafit to that equation is going to reduce it even more.

[mntlion]

listen to your elders eldo's

that will be a hard find, dynafit and DIN, and Fits

[AsheanMT]

listen to your elders eldo's

that will be a hard find, dynafit and DIN, and Fits

Black Diamond does this. However, I'm leery of recommending or buying any gear that is only in its first year. (even though BD does make great gear)

[djc]

Sorry for the slight hijack, but it's on topic...

I'm coming from a splitboard back to skiing (20 years on skis growing up) - and am planning on being on AT boots 100% of the time. I'm leaning heavily towards the new Garmont overlap line (Radium, Argon, Helium). Purchasing dukes as this season's AT binding but I have a feeling I may end up going Dynafit in a few years. I'm not sure of this, but it seems that everyone who gets more and more into AT ends up Dynafit eventually.

The Argon and Radium are basically the same boot except the Radium is Pebax and the Argon is a stiffer polyurethane. And of course the Radium is dynafit compatible.

As I understand it, the Argon is a stiffer boot because it is not Pebax. I also have read the threads regarding duke damage to Pebax shells.

I have two questions:

1. Have many people experienced the duke damage to Pebax shells? Is this a legit concern?

2. How much stiffer will the Argon be? Exact same boot other then the material. Will I be giving up a noticable amount of stiffness? I'm not coming from a ski race background and have been in snowboard boots exclusively for the last five years...so would the stiffness difference between the two not be a major concern? I don't want to give up 'needed' stiffness because I might make the switch to Dynafits. But of course it would be pretty stupid to invest in a boot without the capability if I'm not really giving up much for it.

[Jonathan S.]

As I noticed you are planning to use these with regular bindings as well as AT then you are going to need a boot with a DIN compatible sole, I think that is going severely limit your selection. Trying to add dynafit to that equation is going to reduce it even more.

Dynafit Zzeus, BD Factor, BD Method (plus the women's version) -- those are the only options that work (safely) with all alpine downhill and alpine touring bindings.

[Fuorilegge]

Someone want to verify this...I thought the list was a bit longer.

Dynafit Zzeus, BD Factor, BD Method (plus the women's version) -- those are the only options that work (safely) with all alpine downhill and alpine touring bindings.

[Jonathan S.]

Someone want to verify this...I thought the list was a bit longer.

The list is much longer for boots that work with all AT bindings.
And the list is much longer for boots that work with alpine downhill bindings yet have a rubber and rockered sole to some extent (either via a sort of universal sole, or swappable soles).
But asking for a boot to work (safely) in both Dynafit bindings and alpine downhill bindings, that wasn't even available until this year.

[Hugh Conway]

Dynafit Zzeus, BD Factor, BD Method (plus the women's version) -- those are the only options that work (safely) with all alpine downhill and alpine touring bindings.

I'm so shocked I haven't killed myself using Axons and Adrenalins in alpine bindings

[mr_gyptian]

People will try to convince you otherwise, but AT boots have an intended usage and if you are an aggressive skier it is not skiing in bounds.

[Jonathan S.]

I'm so shocked I haven't killed myself using Axons and Adrenalins in alpine bindings

What are the results on a torque tester?
(Or at least what are your subjective impressions when twisting out of the toe in a somewhat-controlled test?)
And with which alpine downhill bindings?
(Also, with regard to the Adrenalins, which set of soles?)

Anyway, nobody is saying that you're going to kill yourself that way, but rather that the binding might not release when some part of your lower leg would prefer the binding to release.

[H-wood]

They'll work w/ the 914's--probably be pretty safe if you already use a high DIN (say 9+), but sketchy if your DIN is low (lots more friction in the system, soft shell that can distort), and they'll work w/ Dukes, but probably not the other alpine bindings (no adjustable toe height).

If you are used to a properly-fitting stiff alpine boot, most At boots will feel (and be) sloppy. Doesn't matter in killer snow, but sucks on packed or tricky snow. My suggestion- get some good AT boots for bootpack days etc., and use those Falcons or buy a pair of cheap used alpine boots for backup. A pair ten year old langes is as good as a brand new pair, and bootfitting's cheap.

And by the way, if a Falcon feels good, your foot isn't as wide as you think...

[LeeLau]

Sorry for the slight hijack, but it's on topic...

I'm coming from a splitboard back to skiing (20 years on skis growing up) - and am planning on being on AT boots 100% of the time. I'm leaning heavily towards the new Garmont overlap line (Radium, Argon, Helium). Purchasing dukes as this season's AT binding but I have a feeling I may end up going Dynafit in a few years. I'm not sure of this, but it seems that everyone who gets more and more into AT ends up Dynafit eventually.

The Argon and Radium are basically the same boot except the Radium is Pebax and the Argon is a stiffer polyurethane. And of course the Radium is dynafit compatible.

As I understand it, the Argon is a stiffer boot because it is not Pebax. I also have read the threads regarding duke damage to Pebax shells.

I have two questions:

1. Have many people experienced the duke damage to Pebax shells? Is this a legit concern?

2. How much stiffer will the Argon be? Exact same boot other then the material. Will I be giving up a noticable amount of stiffness? I'm not coming from a ski race background and have been in snowboard boots exclusively for the last five years...so would the stiffness difference between the two not be a major concern? I don't want to give up 'needed' stiffness because I might make the switch to Dynafits. But of course it would be pretty stupid to invest in a boot without the capability if I'm not really giving up much for it.

This wasn't your question but I thought I'd point out that Pebax plastic tends to be less affected by cold then PU or Polyurethane plastic - which stiffens a lot in cold.

Also thought it'd be a good time to mention this thread - http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=79349.

[djc]

This wasn't your question but I thought I'd point out that Pebax plastic tends to be less affected by cold then PU or Polyurethane plastic - which stiffens a lot in cold.

Also thought it'd be a good time to mention this thread - http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=79349.

Wow, multiple searches and I have not seen that thread. Looks like I've got some reading to do. Seems sticky worthy to me...but I realize I'm just a jong...

The Garmont customer service people explained the exact same thing with respect to polyurethane stiffening in the cold but I couldn't get a sense of how noticable the difference will be. They rate both boots the same stiffness (120AT is what they call them)...so here's a different variation of the question...if your favorite pair of non-Pebax boots were somehow turned into Pebax (but the construction of the boots was exactly the same in all other ways) do you think they would feel significantly different to you?

[Jer]

I forget to lock into Ski mode about 50% of the time with my Denalis. But that's just 'cause I'm a meat-head.

[Fuorilegge]

Man, I could not disagree more. I use my FFR+ and Spirit 4s for inbounds and they suit me up just fine. Could I benefit from a dedicated Alpine boot? Maybe, but I have never been that upset with the performance to really take the time to try.

To each his out, but, I think AT boots can serve a skier well in bounds. Anyone else agree?

People will try to convince you otherwise, but AT boots have an intended usage and if you are an aggressive skier it is not skiing in bounds.

[H-wood]

Key word in that quote is "aggressive". AT boots are fine for moderate skiing, and you can push it a little, but... trying to control a big stiff ski at high speed in choppy snow is another story.

[AsheanMT]

Key word in that quote is "aggressive". AT boots are fine for moderate skiing, and you can push it a little, but... trying to control a big stiff ski at high speed in choppy snow is another story.

Hmmm. I disagree. Trying to push little whimpy sticks through crud and chop at high speed with AT boots will be next to impossible but as said above I have pointed my 179 Fat BRO Stiff straight down the mountain over the chop and through the crud without any problems whatsoever. Like I said.... to each their own but until you naysayers come and ski with me and show me how much more aggressive your are than me I'm not going to believe that I can't keep up with you guys on my AT boots.

[fluffballs]

I got the technica Agent AT's last season. They were my first experience with an AT boot, and I did not end up liking them. They seemed to fit great, and felt still enough in store. I found that with the lower cuff, the pressure seemed to center on a single point on my shin was a rather painful, even while skinning. They simply felt sloppy compared to my falcon 10s.