Avy 1 Course. Whats to be gained.

**Some Douche** · 02-04-2008, 07:37 PM

What secret knowledges might expand my comprehension of frozen water physics in one of these courses that I haven't already learned thru reading various snow science books and observing snow characteristics in various backcountry tourings as well as checking out everything out there on the webs.

Helldawg · 02-04-2008, 07:40 PM

Absolutely nothing. Feel free to venture beyond the gates with nothing but your carhartts, a stale powerbar, and whatever lint is in your bellybutton.

(Yes, I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, they even teach us that in JONG school).

**Some Douche** · 02-04-2008, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Helldawg

Absolutely nothing. Feel free to venture beyond the gates with nothing but your carhartts, a stale powerbar, and whatever lint is in your bellybutton.

(Yes, I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, they even teach us that in JONG school).

Your a fucking JONG douchebag, and I am not a troll. I want to know what my $250 is going to gain me. I think(know) I already have the level 1 knowledge from years of bc experience and 22 years of skiing.. but yea, I like to go light. A stale powerbar(if there is such a thing) could sustain me for days.

**MrZach** · 02-04-2008, 07:53 PM

I found the field days the most beneficial for me - actually getting out there and "seeing/doing" all the stuff that you read so much about with very knowledgeable folks is well worth the money IMHO. Also, the gross amount of beacon searching/probing and diggin' we did in various conditions/configurations (single vs. multpile burial) was well worth it. I took mine with the Diamond Peaks Patrol folks (for about half the cost for you NoCo people) and I'd say is was more of an Avy1.5 level course - they spent a LOT more time on actual snow science than what's covered in the basic Avy1 texts.

I'd say do it - $250 is pretty cheap for the improved decision making ability and mitigation skills you'll learn.

**DharmaBum** · 02-04-2008, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Some Douche

What secret knowledges might expand my comprehension of frozen water physics in one of these courses that I haven't already learned thru reading various snow science books and observing snow characteristics in various backcountry tourings as well as checking out everything out there on the webs.

Yikes! $250!? There has to be a cheaper way.
Having just finished an avy 1 course this weekend, though with only a handful of backcountry experiences under my belt, I suggest that you take it anyway. I learned that there is no such thing as too much practice with a beacon. I learned that stability tests are also good to practice under different conditions than what I'm used to, and that getting another, more experienced opinion on what to look for increases my knowledge just a little bit more.
For example, do you know how many pits to dig to bump your confidence level in the stability of a slope up to about 98%? Hint: the answer isn't 1.

I also learned a little about search and probe and digging techniques, which since I have never had to use them, and hope I never have to, require frequent brushing up.

Plus, I met three potential new backcountry partners!

Perhaps most importantly, I learned that I don't know more than I know, and that if I ever get to the point where I think I know it all, that is probably the point I reach right before I get buried in a slide.

...just saying...

**gimpy** · 02-04-2008, 07:57 PM

honestly, unless you wanna take the level 2, not much. i took an avy 1 this year and after hundreds of days of bc experience, i didn't really get much out of it except a little bit in the rescue scenario at the end. my class was only like $40 though and i'm looking to take the 2 class in the next year or 2. for $250, if you've got a fair chunk of experience and sum book learnin i wouldn't bother.

**TahoeHuckerSchmucker** · 02-04-2008, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by Some Douche

Your a fucking JONG douchebag, and I am not a troll. I want to know what my $250 is going to gain me. I think(know) I already have the level 1 knowledge from years of bc experience and 22 years of skiing.. but yea, I like to go light. A stale powerbar(if there is such a thing) could sustain me for days.

If you're so knowledgeable then skip Level 1 and sign up for Level II if they'll let you.

**Jer** · 02-04-2008, 07:59 PM

I had about 12 years of BC experience before I took Level 1 and honestly, I didn't learn anything I already knew. But I did get to meet Rick Wyatt, so there's that.

**_Aaron_** · 02-04-2008, 08:02 PM

You need Avy 1 to get into Avy 2 and 3 and Im sure you dont have the knowlage presented in those courses.

**murph** · 02-04-2008, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by MrZach

I found the field days the most beneficial for me - actually getting out there and "seeing/doing" all the stuff that you read so much about with very knowledgeable folks is well worth the money IMHO. Also, the gross amount of beacon searching/probing and diggin' we did in various conditions/configurations (single vs. multpile burial) was well worth it. I took mine with the Diamond Peaks Patrol folks (for about half the cost for you NoCo people) and I'd say is was more of an Avy1.5 level course - they spent a LOT more time on actual snow science than what's covered in the basic Avy1 texts.

I'd say do it - $250 is pretty cheap for the improved decision making ability and mitigation skills you'll learn.

Seconding pretty much all of this. Having actual time on the snow with a professional showing you the proper way to do pits, rutshblock, beacon search etc is pretty valuable, in my opinion.
$250 is expensive though. I hope they're cooking you breakfast or something.

**s.p.c** · 02-04-2008, 08:15 PM

just to throw it out there b/c i don't often hear it said....

take a cpr course in addition to any course you take for avis. if something does go down no matter what cautions you take, what good is your knowledge and search and rescue ability without being able to revive the person you found?

**summit** · 02-04-2008, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Some Douche

What secret knowledges might expand my comprehension of frozen water physics in one of these courses that I haven't already learned thru reading various snow science books and observing snow characteristics in various backcountry tourings as well as checking out everything out there on the webs.

I think self education can get you very far
The best things I think you will get from an avi I is:

1. rescue practice and drills (including probing and digging and team work) that you aren't going to usually get searching for your buddies beacon, not to mention technique critique and tips from a very experienced instructor
2. actually working in a snowpit with an experienced avalanched person who can really show you test technique and interpretation that cannot be explained in a book so well
3. experienced person passing on in discussion in general, weather, group dynamics, and terrain selection

You ought to be able to do better than $250 I unless it is some special program (say Silverton) $90-$175 seems more reasonable. Choose a course with the most field time you can find. That is where you will gain experience and have it passed onto you in a way that makes it worth your time versus taking years to gain it on your own.

Originally Posted by s.p.c

just to throw it out there b/c i don't often hear it said....

take a cpr course in addition to any course you take for avis. if something does go down no matter what cautions you take, what good is your knowledge and search and rescue ability without being able to revive the person you found?

^I think this is an extremely *EXTREMELY* good and often overlooked point!

**Erls** · 02-04-2008, 08:46 PM

My advice (ex-patroller)

Even though you probably already will know everything they'll teach you in Avy1, it will still be beneficial. They might cover something you havn't gone over yet. Besides that, the Beacon training alone is worth it.

A CPR class is great for back country skiing. However, if you have the money, try and take a OEC course (I believe its around $400 for the total class). This is the class for Patrollers/Park Rangers, etc... Much more informative than CPR, and more helpful if an injury is sustained.

**skibuminwyo** · 02-04-2008, 08:49 PM

don't forget your studfinder.

**pointedem** · 02-04-2008, 09:00 PM

Save your coin if you have legit touring partners willing to spend time with you. I was lucky enough to have by bud ( avy 2 cert'd) to be my teacher. I was in the same boat... years of skiing but no snow science smarts.

If you have a bud that knows his shit, go out with him and have him teach you.

Avy I is very basic. Terrain selection, rescue drills, so on so forth. It's very very helpful to have someone present the info you read about in the book. Field time with a teacher is key.

**ono** · 02-04-2008, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Some Douche

Your a fucking JONG douchebag, and I am not a troll. I want to know what my $250 is going to gain me. I think(know) I already have the level 1 knowledge from years of bc experience and 22 years of skiing.. but yea, I like to go light. A stale powerbar(if there is such a thing) could sustain me for days.

JONGdoucheJONG

definition of JONG.

**Conundrum** · 02-04-2008, 09:36 PM

Access to yurts without a guide in some cases.

**Some Douche** · 02-05-2008, 08:33 AM

thanks people.

**mtskier** · 02-05-2008, 09:12 AM

you can never have enough experience and knowledge in the backcountry. take the course. you will get something out of it for sure.

**macmahoooon** · 02-05-2008, 09:14 AM

Having also done an Avy 1 this past weekend I think the biggest thing gained was the experience of a full 3 stage "Organized" rescue scenario and seeing how disorganized it can be. Helps pull together alot of the individual lessons like beacon search, probe line, victim extraction with people outside your usual group who you know you can work with, and throws in a ton of real variables. Also having someone experienced to compare your pit findings with is a good gauge of how much you actually think you know.

**born2snowboard99** · 02-05-2008, 09:51 AM

Speaking of Avy courses, what is the best book on avalanche terrain out there? Any suggestions? Also, what is the best Avy course to take in Washington? Thanks.

**LaBelle23** · 02-05-2008, 10:04 AM

Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain by Bruce Tremper. He breaks complex concepts down into easy to understand examples. It was our Avy 2 text.

**born2snowboard99** · 02-05-2008, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by LaBelle23

Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain by Bruce Tremper. He breaks complex concepts down into easy to understand examples. It was our Avy 2 text.

Thanks! I'll be sure to check that out!

**volklpowdermaniac** · 09-12-2008, 02:56 PM

What's up, I'm taking AVY 1 in december in Boulder, 50$ if your a CU student.

My question isn't whether or not I should take AVY 1. I'm taking it.

My question is rather, what percentage (obviously estimated) of the skiiers here have moved onto AVY2 and what type of terrain do the AVY1ers stop and say, "I shouldn't do this until I do AVY 2." I guess in sum, at what point do you think AVY 2 becomes neccesary.

**Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo** · 09-12-2008, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by volklpowdermaniac

What's up, I'm taking AVY 1 in december in Boulder, 50$ if your a CU student.

My question isn't whether or not I should take AVY 1. I'm taking it.

My question is rather, what percentage (obviously estimated) of the skiiers here have moved onto AVY2 and what type of terrain do the AVY1ers stop and say, "I shouldn't do this until I do AVY 2." I guess in sum, at what point do you think AVY 2 becomes neccesary.

Avi 2 doesn't suddenly open up new terrain to you or something. Only experience and personal judgement are gonna do that so don't expect to take it and suddenly ski tons of avi terrain. Avi 2(at least when I took it a few years ago) is heavily weighted toward snow science and snow metamorphism, not so much advanced terrain selection, although that depends on the instructors to a certain extent.