Carbon?

[SpinalTap]

I know how metal and different wood effect how a ski behaves on the snow, but what impact does a layer or two of carbon have on the skis?

Specifically, how do the 192 Bro's ski when compared to the 192 Bro w/carbon?

I've heard that the carbon versions are stiffer. Aside from the added stiffness, do they ski the same way, or does the carbon give the ski have a bit more rebound (perhaps a bit livelier, rather than the damp feeling of an all wood ski)?

[njfreeskier]

i don't know how carbon skis ski, but carbon fiber is much lighter than metal and is very durable. it is also very structurally rigid. all three clearly have their benefits in skis. i don't know about the bros, but i know that in line skis, they add it for some extra pop.

[j o n o]

In the skis I make in my spare time I use carbon fibers on top of the wood core and under the top layers of fiberglass (the stuff looks like audiotape). These longitudinal stringers make the ski livelier and more responsive than skis that just use fiberglass. The carbon is very strong in compression so when the ski is flexed the carbon pushes back immediately.
This use of carbon can be seen in many k2 skis. Recent Pep Fujas models have a clear top sheet through which the black carbon stringer can be seen.
I don't know if Splat is using carbon stringers in the Bros or if they're made with carbon fabric in place of fiberglass. Carbon fabric gives the same strength as fiberglass at one third the weight. One layer of the fabric is made of longitudinal fibers so this application would probably be livelier than fiberglass. Maybe too lively, this approach would lose some of the dampness found in fiberglass. I bet the Bros are a hybrid of fiberglass and carbon.

[IrieRon]

Didn't ProfSki (before he disappeared) say something about (in his aerospace experience) the carbon interacting with the metal edges in a way that turned the whole thing into a quasi-battery, thus causing corrosion and the snapping so common in the early iterations of the carbon-fiber skis?

I would love to have further clarification of that comment.
<paging all nerds...all nerds to tech talk please...>

[j o n o]

Most sandwich skis have a layer of damping rubber on top of the metal edges. This layer would insulate the metal of the edges from the carbon layers. I would think that this would eliminate any electrical phenomena.

[marshalolson]

electrical phenomena was generally on carbon core and carbon topsheet cap skis. some funky shit.

also carbon has a nearly infinite lifespan, so pop is not lost anywhere near as quickly.

finally, "carbon" is like saying "wood" or "plastic". there are tons of different varieties, even in ski construction, so there are tons of different ways it effects a ski.

but, long story short:

less carbon is needed to make a ski just as stiff, so it can be lighter.
its more torsionally rigid.
it has better rebound snap and better anti-vibration (ie smooth but not damp & a huge generalization)

[Garrett]

Didn't ProfSki (before he disappeared) say something about (in his aerospace experience) the carbon interacting with the metal edges in a way that turned the whole thing into a quasi-battery, thus causing corrosion and the snapping so common in the early iterations of the carbon-fiber skis?

Yeah. This was/continues to be a challenge in many applications.

http://books.google.com/books?id=hWE...U7h0#PPA367,M1

Most sandwich skis have a layer of damping rubber on top of the metal edges.

Really? I've sectioned a bunch and not noticed that.

I'd be fascinated to see actual evidence of CFRP skis that had galvanic corrosion problems.

[splat]

Most sandwich skis have a layer of damping rubber on top of the metal edges. This layer would insulate the metal of the edges from the carbon layers. I would think that this would eliminate any electrical phenomena.

I'm not so certain about how much dampening comes from that thin polymer tape that is used to ensure the resin adheres to the metal (it's real primary purpose). However, it does come in thicker iterations that are cut to fit the base profile inside the edges and that does provide some actual dampening, from what I've heard.

I'd talk about carbon, but I'm still working and fried from long hours.....
Let's ask pechelman (pechelman, please pick up the carbon courtesy phone).

[mordy07]

For some reason I have a hard time understanding how carbon could cause corrosion, unless it's mixed with something else reactive or mixed directly with the metal edges. Carbon is about as inactive and stable as anything out there, and I don't think there would be any reason for it to react with metal. The causes of corrosion have to do with oxygen, and there definitely isn't any of that in carbon skis. I think most carbon applications in skis are placed well away from the edges anyway (besides Goode). Carbon steel, however, has a a relatively high corrosive nature, but I think that's another issue altogether.

I know carbon of various types is used in skis all the time for light-weight rigidity. For example, the beta (B4, B5) systems on Atomics are carbon rods, and the Line Prophet 130 has a carbon band in it instead of metal as well. I'm sure there's many other examples as well.

[Garrett]

For some reason I have a hard time understanding how carbon could cause corrosion, unless it's mixed with something else reactive or mixed directly with the metal edges.

Yeah, that. Click on the link I provided.