Are Bluehouse Shoots the next XXXL?

[lobstahmeatwad]

Glad you have someone fluent in chinese. It's s tough language. BH sounds solid but I would never personally buy a ski that appeared to flex the way the districts did in that vid.
Do we get new flex vids? Someone already asked...

k bh is truly a customer service company. personally i hav put my own time into bh by providing them w/ my own advertisement design. now its us that hav helped them.
and for a ski to be constructed material alone it costs about $150 - core, titanium, epoxy, steel edges, ptex, and base 4000, and topsheet

No fuggin way.
I can buy that shit here with taxes and make it myself before labor, and end up around or below that number. The margin has to be 1/5 that in china even with labor and buying in bulk, even if you do buy from overseas material companies.
I think we need to see some profit margin reports...

[Daywalker]

I think we need to see some profit margin reports...

Not my fight, but who gives a shit what their profit margin is? They are providing a bunch of skis that people seem pretty stoked to try at prices that are pretty ridiculous.

Bluehouse is open about the fact that the skis are made in China, people can decide for themselves if that's something that will keep them from buying the skis. The profits that Bluehouse do (or do not) make based on their chosen business model seem pretty unimportant to the decision on whether or not to buy the skis. Why is the collective armchair quarterbacking this?

[iggyskier]

I can buy that shit here with taxes and make it myself before labor, and end up around or below that number.

that can be hard to reach doing it yourself, depending on the materials you are using and bulk, obviously. I know that bamboo is not fucking cheap to come by, at least in the US. I think the cores I used cost 3-5 times of normal cores...and pretty sure bluehouse uses bamboo as well, although I am sure it is much cheaper in china.

once you add subliminated topsheets, race base, edges, various types of vds, carbon, fiberglass, binding mat, tip spacers, good epoxy, sidewalls....it quickly adds up. they also use metal.

for a ski made in the US, $150/pair would be pretty damn good, at least in my opinion.

I cannot comment on how it would work out in China because I really have no idea....I can say that I have been talking with suppliers this past week trying to get some different material prices, and if I could get my cost per pair down that low (even if I buy for several hundred to a thousand pairs) I would be extremely stoked. The 50 pairs or so I have made thus far were way way more than that, and in putting thing on paper so far, even getting it below $200 is a bit tough, at least thus far.

[persianpunisher]

BH has been great in customer service. They have, at all times, offered to take the skis back. For a TINY operation, they make an alright ski. They have minuscule R&D and tend to rip off other companies designs, in this case offering this ski as "the poor mans gotama" (heard it from the BH people themselves).

And hey, I didnt come here to make enemies, I just don't appreciate the ignorance. You guys are a very informative bunch of people when it comes to gear, although it seems like some need to "pulltheir head out" when it comes to racial issues.

[lobstahmeatwad]

The 50 pairs or so I have made thus far were way way more than that, and in putting thing on paper so far, even getting it below $200 is a bit tough, at least thus far.

Fair enough. I thought I had it near 100 a pair but that is supar simple design.
Very little plastic.
I figure chinas a super good bargin. Especially for core which is a large amount of the price. no?

[iggyskier]

Fair enough. I thought I had it near 100 a pair but that is supar simple design.
Very little plastic.
I figure chinas a super good bargin. Especially for core which is a large amount of the price. no?

You can definitely do it for around that.

But topsheets add a bit. My are done by the same people who do prior, pmger, icelandic, etc, and at smaller numbers are not super cheap.

And since the skis I make are pretty fat, a fair bit of epoxy as well.

Then carbon is expensive. I need to see if I can find a better source, but 2-3" 12k carbon can be up to $20-25 per pair, by itself....

Regarding china and the price of the core, it must be a lot cheaper. The biggest thing I am trying to do is see if I can figure out a cheaper way to get cores. At this point it is basically looking like the only way to do it would be to fill a whole container with them.....

[marshalolson]

they better make at least 27-30 points on what they are selling. otherwise, what is the point?

their goal is not to make an internet forums skis for free, it is to develop into a sustainable business. which means they need to sell stuff at a profit. just like everyone else.

[volklpowdermaniac]

this thread is thoroughly entertaining.

i'm staying away from any judgement/commentary of any kind regarding this matter, but I would just like to say, I'm loving it.

[JoeStrummer]

they better make at least 27-30 points on what they are selling. otherwise, what is the point?

their goal is not to make an internet forums skis for free, it is to develop into a sustainable business. which means they need to sell stuff at a profit. just like everyone else.

Hallelujah, a voice of reason. If you can make skis for $100 each and want to sell them for $110, have at it. Otherwise, the market (which is not a bunch of bargain shoppers on TGR, shocking as that may seem) will decide what is a fair price for their skis.

[esseff]

No, I am an attorney who beats ignorant assh**es like yourself.

The bluehouses were fine until about 30 days. They became too soft and mushy

Dude is about as credible as, well, an attorney. You skied them that much and yet you say they sucked? Any half ass joey would have dumped them after a few days.

Did you hear the one about 100 attorneys at the bottom of the ocean?

[persianpunisher]

Dude is about as credible as, well, an attorney. You skied them that much and yet you say they sucked? Any half ass joey would have dumped them after a few days.

Did you hear the one about 100 attorneys at the bottom of the ocean?

I skied them because I didnt have the time to go "ski searching". the BH guys came to some friends of mine who were running a ski/snowboard club, who in return hooked me up with some boards (I paid $50.) Once the tips started to delam, I spoke with BH who said I could return them at the end of the season, so I decided to ride them out. I was hoping the skis would somehow "become alive" after a few hard weeks of skiing, but that never happened.

I should be more specific in my gripes with the Districts: I appreciated how laterally stiff they were, however I felt they became softer/mushier the more I skied them. It was their first time making skis, I'll give them that, so I hope THIS year they make better boards. After talking with Adam (from BH), i am thinking about picking up some shoots for blasting around Alta-Bird

[The Dad]

I'm with you, man...

But I still think you got your fitty bucks worth.

[persianpunisher]

oh no, I totally think I got my 50 bucks worth AND THEN SOME. I am just saying, that from a retail perspective, they are not up to par. I hope this year is better. Many ski companies make stuff in China and its fairly good (K2, Volkl) however I don't know what it was with first year districts

[Core Shot]

Ithe BH guys came to some friends of mine who were running a ski/snowboard club, who in return hooked me up with some boards (I paid $50.)

I'm just a wealthy lawyer cheap fuck, so when the skis I paid $50 for didn't last, I decided to badmouth the coompany on the internet.

They tried to lose even more money taking care of me, since I'm an asshole and threatened to sue them, but I refused their aid since I prefer to wallow in my misery and keep slamming them.

I have no sympathy for anyone that actually produces goods and services for a living since I am just a leech on the production back of society.

I think I'll go club a few fur seals and check my police scanner to see if there are any good car crashes in the area.

Wow, you really are a douchebag attorney.

I feel sorry for you, your wife, your clients and most of all Bluehouse for ever trying to be nice to you and give you a $50 pair of skis.

[Bluehouse]

I usually don't want to get involved in thread with its own direction. We usually try and just answer questions but I would like to clear the air on a few quick issues as well as post a review that one of our team riders, David Wintzer, sent to me.

the BH guys came to some friends of mine who were running a ski/snowboard club, who in return hooked me up with some boards (I paid $50.) I spoke with BH who said I could return them at the end of the season, so I decided to ride them out.

As for the $50 skis. We never sold skis that cheap to anyone this year. The preseason price was as low as we went. They must have been purchased second hand through a friend but we didn't sell them directly.
The Districts were loved by many but not everyone was a fan. We felt like our prices gave people the chance to try a new ski that may or may not be their ideal. We had an overwhelmingly positive response to our first season lineup and we took the feedback (both positive and negative) and used it in our designs this season. The new District is an answer to the calls of many.

We always stand by our warranty. If anyone ever has any issues or questions we can always be reached by email or phone call. We know there were a few issues with delams but they were way below our predicted threshold. After talking to other companies, in our first year we were close to the warranty rates that they are seeing after several years of business. As a new company we understand that we are going to be under the microscope and so once again give us a call if you have any issues.

After talking with Adam (from BH), i am thinking about picking up some shoots for blasting around Alta-Bird

I don't remember this conversation but since it sounds like you're in the SLC come by the show on Thursday and you can see the difference in contsruction from our first to second year.

They have minuscule R&D and tend to rip off other companies design

Wow. Comparing a ski to one that people are familiar with and ripping off designs are two different things. There are several other skis that have similar dims to the District in the 100-110mm waist category. The Gotama was one that we didn't even originally use for comparison but it was a baseline that several people understood so we tried to draw the connections for people see what our skis were like. We stand by the integrity of our company and the R&D process that we have.

[Bluehouse]

I decided to put the review in a separate post.

This is from our team rider David Wintzer (5'9 155lbs), he used the Shoots at the World Championships in Alyeska last season. It doesn't go into a lot of tech detail but it reinforces the purpose of the Shoots. They go fast.

"The Shoots:

Being a traditional freestyle skier it was very hard for me to shift away from your typical all mountain type ski. I have never been one to try out many different types of skis, I usually stick to what works for me. I'll be honest when I was handed a pair of the shoots I was a little intimidated on the size and even more so, the stiffness. I knew that this is where the industry was headed and it was about time for me to step up and try something new. The first run I took on them was at 9am on the first tram at snowbird on a 20 inch day... Needless to say it was love at first sight. I have never ridden a ski that gave me so much power and speed underneath my feet. The next day I took them to the groomers. I will admit it was a little harder to get used to but, when you are carrying the speed that is required for these things you can't ask for a better built ski. The Shoots are a beast... I would recommend them to ANYONE who loves to shred fast, must stomp lines. This is your ski and when you get them going on the big mountain steeps, there is no stopping them, enjoy the ride. David Wintzer"

[esseff]

two thumbs up on calling out the douche bag ambulance chaser.

I usually don't want to get involved in thread with its own direction. We usually try and just answer questions but I would like to clear the air on a few quick issues as well as post a review that one of our team riders, David Wintzer, sent to me.



As for the $50 skis. We never sold skis that cheap to anyone this year. The preseason price was as low as we went. They must have been purchased second hand through a friend but we didn't sell them directly.
The Districts were loved by many but not everyone was a fan. We felt like our prices gave people the chance to try a new ski that may or may not be their ideal. We had an overwhelmingly positive response to our first season lineup and we took the feedback (both positive and negative) and used it in our designs this season. The new District is an answer to the calls of many.

We always stand by our warranty. If anyone ever has any issues or questions we can always be reached by email or phone call. We know there were a few issues with delams but they were way below our predicted threshold. After talking to other companies, in our first year we were close to the warranty rates that they are seeing after several years of business. As a new company we understand that we are going to be under the microscope and so once again give us a call if you have any issues.



I don't remember this conversation but since it sounds like you're in the SLC come by the show on Thursday and you can see the difference in contsruction from our first to second year.



Wow. Comparing a ski to one that people are familiar with and ripping off designs are two different things. There are several other skis that have similar dims to the District in the 100-110mm waist category. The Gotama was one that we didn't even originally use for comparison but it was a baseline that several people understood so we tried to draw the connections for people see what our skis were like. We stand by the integrity of our company and the R&D process that we have.

[TheDon]

two thumbs up on calling out the douche bag ambulance chaser.

esseff rocks!!!

[flip]

I just think it is funny that I have commended BH for finding a new business model

Either you're pretending that it wasn't a backhanded compliment, or you're truly retarded.

If your intent was to compliment, you failed.
If your intent was to inform, you failed.
If your intent was to represent PM gear in a decent manner, you failed.
You added nothing to this thread, and muddied an otherwise informative thread with your douchebaggery.
We're not talking diplomacy. We're talking basic fucking English communication skills. I hope you're not this miserable in person.

I don't give a rat's ass whether my skis come from an independent company. Most of mine don't; one pair does. I don't know the bluehouse guys; I don't know their operation. I do know what it takes to start up a company in the ski industry, so I do care when dedicated, hardworking folks get smeared for not being dedicated and hardworking enough by an uninformed, self-righteous asshole.

[Vitamin I]

No offense, but I skied Bluehouse districts almost 100 days last year, and I will not buy them ever again. They are soft, squirrley, and lack edge hold. more importantly, they delammed after the first 50 days. NOT what I would have expected... hopefully my Scratch Steezes will have better results

Thanks for the input, persianpunisher. I, for one, appreciate your post.

Your post is relevant to the original thread title and OP's questions, and provides one valid data point in the sea of information.

The douches are the guys who saw this ski product thread, but wanted to talk about the ski industry instead.

I skied them because I didnt have the time to go "ski searching"...

Hmmm. Time to ski 70 more days after they softened up too much for your liking, including time to ski 50 days on them after they delammed, but no time to search for new skis? Dude, treat yourself. Take the time, then ski on skis you like.

...I was hoping the skis would somehow "become alive" after a few hard weeks of skiing, but that never happened...

Uhhh... Hope can be a good thing, but don't hold your breath waiting for a ski to be built that gets LESS soft and mushy the MORE you ski it. Maybe if someday a company starts with a stiff high-camber-shaped core, lays it up, then lets it cure in a low-camber or flat mold---then MAYBE that ski will seem to "become alive" as you beat it up. Not a bad idea for construction, but likely better to buy skis with metal and just re-bend camber back into them as necessary.

.

[GapersGoHome]

I'd like to preface my comments by saying that I, in no way, represent the views of bluehouse; nor am I affiliated with them in any way.

With that said... I'd just like to say that I really find it appalling how quick people are on here to give PMGear the reach-around. I know I'll probably catch hell for saying this, but... what's the big deal? Yes, it's great that they're maggot-owned. Yeah, it's awesome that they're made in Reno, where I live. It's also incredible that they have gotten so many skiers stoked to go ride every day. But - and I say this tongue-in-cheek - why do they have to be the end-all, be-all, best indie board out there? That's the essence of a free market economy, in my opinion - the freedom to choose between skis. It's an exciting time; the independent ski company boom has kind of forced all of the big guns to really jack up their R&D, and more skiers than ever can access funshapes with somewhat limited funds. Praxis, Moment, PMGear, Bluehouse, Icelantic, Fatypus, etc, etc, etc... they all have given something to the ski industry. All of a sudden, this new company comes on the scene, trying to get skiers stoked on their product, and it has to come down to bickering on an internet forum? Can't everyone be happy that they're getting good deals? So what if they're made in China - so is K2... Volkl... etc, etc. The main thing is that they get me excited about skiing - can't that be enough?

[Vitamin I]

Updated my speculative stoke in this thread at http://tetongravity.com/forums/showp...18&postcount=7

Go buy some Shoots.

.

[persianpunisher]

Indeed, after checking out other pairs, the districts softened up after 50 plus days. As a result, they became awkwardly rockered. I dont know if BH puts fiberglass in their skis, but they should to prevent these sorts of things happening again. Sir, I didn't meant to demean your your company, I merely feel that your company (with the exception of price point) has not introduced anything remotely dynamic in the industry. Hell, even lib-tech (a snowboard company) makes better skis! Hopefully the replacement models will be better.

Oh, and for the record- I am not an ambulance chaser.

[Skidog]

Indeed, after checking out other pairs, the districts softened up after 50 plus days. As a result, they became awkwardly rockered. I dont know if BH puts fiberglass in their skis, but they should to prevent these sorts of things happening again. Sir, I didn't meant to demean your your company, I merely feel that your company (with the exception of price point) has not introduced anything remotely dynamic in the industry. Hell, even lib-tech (a snowboard company) makes better skis! Hopefully the replacement models will be better.

Oh, and for the record- I am not an ambulance chaser.

Dont care if you're an ambulance chaser or not, but its evient you're a total dick....

Way to support the little guy. Im pretty sure Lib tech had a shitty first run as well....As mentioned by Bluehouse themselves....they were below most competitors with rate of delam....the District was never billed as a stiff ski...it was a noodle from the jump..

Fucking idiot!

[gaijin]

BH offers a one year warranty- industry standard.

This is just reminder to readers that threads like this should be taken with a grain of salt.

I have yet to even receive my recently purchased Mavens. I've never even seen them. Yet- I really don't feel that dropping less than 400 on a tree ski should be considered a risk. (Ordering a pair of pontoons or Kuros would be equally risky.)

I like the business model that BH is aiming to deliver. If I don't like the skis... so what. Chalk that up to the biggest shape-evolution the industry has ever seen. Even Shane had to change companies. Does anybody here even remember the mid-nineties?

All of you guys out there that think skis like this should be invinsible are clearly lacking vision due to being immature and naive. Guess what-- this shape revolution that you think is cool, is actually new. It took all these indy companies to actually make big names make even shittier skis. (pontoon, hellbent, Squad-cable-thingy, kuro = are you fucking kidding me?) Sticking wtih my 'Shane' example- he still hasn't figured it out-- there is no SHANE model. (do you notice that?) (not that I distrust his designs in any way.)

We vets have been waiting for this. All of you lawyers should build your own shit for a change.

I applaud BH.

Thanks for pushing the entire industry. I'll gladly give 3-something for a ski that I have never seen, never touched, measures up to some sick specs, you'll warranty for a year, may delam (I can buy rockstar epoxy, btw) and may actually rock in the end.

As a skier with 32 seasons around the world, I honestly can't come up with a reason NOT to try their designs.

Those of you who are teenagers... (or lawyers who have never experienced a shape-revolution in the ski industry) can, quite frankly, fuck off and go snorkeling or something.