I've formed an opinion of Ron Paul: He's a dick.

[MeatPuppet]

This is true, but if all money is invested in stocks, bonds, commodities etc, a large amount of risk is introduced into the system. What if you retire during a crash and end up with a flat market the next 15 yrs. What then?? ( And that is assuming that the vast majority of the public has a clue when it comes to investing in the first place.)

How to plan/prepare for your retirement is a whole other ball of wax.

I am afraid that your anecdotal evidence is just that.

I don't offer anything as "evidence". This is my perspective on the situation. Nothing more.

Savings rates are in the tank.

You know, most things worth doing require a little bit of skill. People who are skilled in financial matters normally don't throw their money into a savings account and let it sit. So I don't think that savings rates alone, are a very good indicator of much of anything, but I could be wrong about that.

Some of us are lucky enough to have chosen the right field to go into and are prudent/cheap but that is more the exception.

Heh, you are in good shape until the baby boomers die off, then you are screwed.

[Trackhead]

If you all want a more comprehensive socialized medical program, are you willing to drop frivilous lawsuits against doctors, and are you willing to have the government pay for their education so they can afford to practice and afford liability insurance?

[4matic]

What's even more bizarre is that you think my kids should.

It's ironic you should bring up "your kids." From what you are saying I assume you don't take the tax credit for your children and if you do why? How is that fair to me? I want a tax credit too. Just because I don't procreate I don't get a tax credit? So in the same way you are paying for my mom I'm paying for YOUR kids. Pay for your own damn kids..

Tell me why that is fair?

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

4matic - just curious, how many pair of skis do you own?

[house]

calling medicare/medicaid providers out as insurance frauds in general is just an ad hominem argument against doctors to demean their good will.

i'm sure plenty of doctors bend/cheat the tax rules, but 4matic, are you jealous of your well off doctor friends? it just comes off that way a little.

i also wonder how much money the doctors in those states you listed are owed by medicare/aid that was not/has yet to be paid.

[Spats]

The guy was a doctor who refused to care for the poor.

Wow. So he turns them away?Shitheel.

WRONG! Please do a few seconds of research before saying things that are factually incorrect.

"Paul extended his small-government ideals to his personal life. As a doctor, he refused to accept government insurance such as Medicaid because, he said, "I thought that was one stop too far." If a patient couldn't afford treatment, "I just took care of them." As a lawmaker, he's chosen not to participate in the congressional pension program."
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...WS01/709300331

"During his medical career specializing in obstetrics/gynecology, he delivered more than 4,000 babies. He refused to accept payment by Medicare or Medicaid, preferring to not charge patients or to work out a cash payment.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/ar...3paulfacts.htm

Think about it: most of those 4,000 babies have been in his own congressional district. If he wasn't taking care of the people there, they wouldn't have re-elected him 10 times.

This thread is a bullshit low blow to someone who has done more work pro bono than either of you are likely to do in several lifetimes. I expect a retraction and an apology. How about it?

[philippeR]

Some posts in this thread make me wonder what it means, for the posters, to be american. What does it mean to be part of a society, of a community ? Is the american dream just self-reliance, self-preservation, my money, my kids, my my my... and fuck the rest ?
What's the point ?
Aren't you supposed to share something, to participate in something ?

(it are serious question, btw...)

[bean]

My "American Dream" is to not be forced to pay by force for shit I neither need nor want.

[Tuckerman]

Some posts in this thread make me wonder what it means, for the posters, to be american. What does it mean to be part of a society, of a community ? Is the american dream just self-reliance, self-preservation, my money, my kids, my my my... and fuck the rest ?
What's the point ?
Aren't you supposed to share something, to participate in something ?

(it are serious question, btw...)

The American dream as I see and I think the reason so many have immigrated here is that your hard work is rewarded. Not your hard work rewards someone else. What would be your incentive to work hard if you knew that someone else would take care of you? I think thats the flaw in socialism, not everyone works equally. Creating a group of people supporting another. The group doing all the work is usually the poor. There is no reason to be poor in America through hard work anyone can be successful however thats measured. I'll add that I'm not a political scientist just a computer jockey, so I could be way off.

[Tippster]

My "American Dream" is to not be forced to pay by force for shit I neither need nor want.

Werd. You stop using my money for military lawyers ( you know I love you Brock) and I stop asking you to help pay for poor old sick people's medicines.

I love the whole "why are you making ME pay" argument. I'm not making you do anything for me. I'm asking you to do what I am willing to do and see as necessary for this society. It seems I'm not alone since it's the law of the land and has been your whole life. You don't like it? Fine. Change the rules.

You do understand that the AARP is the strongest voting block in the land and the fastest growing organization in membership terms, right? You're more likely to pass Intelligent Design laws than end Medicare.

[Jim S]

People have this strange idea that the medical community is all about making money. We don't set insurance rates, we don't set reimbursement rates, its often long and stressful hours where one is expected to never make a mistake or miss something (it is impossible, humans are not perfect little robots and the human body is one of the most complex things on the planet), you get sued if you under treat, over treat, dont treat or do treat depending on the situation. And unless your in a specialty the money isn't that good for the amount of hours and stress you deal with. /end rant/

Thank you for your support. I mean that. It's nice to get appreciated.

It doesn't give them the right to cheat on their taxes!

No it doesn't. But what about the right to get first chair on pow days? That's all I hoped for when I went to medical school. That's all. Why? WhY? WHY?!!!!!

[Brocktoon]

It's ironic you should bring up "your kids." From what you are saying I assume you don't take the tax credit for your children and if you do why? How is that fair to me? I want a tax credit too. Just because I don't procreate I don't get a tax credit? So in the same way you are paying for my mom I'm paying for YOUR kids. Pay for your own damn kids..

Tell me why that is fair?

This line of reasoning shows how flawed your thinking is. You consider a tax credit an example of someone taking from the government. Negative. A tax credit is an amount of money the Government does NOT take from the person; it is a reduction in taxes. If you think a reduction in taxes is inconsistent with my line of thinking, I don't know what to say to you.

I don't think you should pay for my kids anymore than I should pay for your mom.

[PNWbrit]

My "American Dream" is to not be forced to pay by force for shit I neither need nor want.

I don't need your kids (or you) to have a state funded education.

Please give me my money back.

Or explain why I should feel differently?

[Brocktoon]

Some posts in this thread make me wonder what it means, for the posters, to be american. What does it mean to be part of a society, of a community ? Is the american dream just self-reliance, self-preservation, my money, my kids, my my my... and fuck the rest ?
What's the point ?
Aren't you supposed to share something, to participate in something ?

(it are serious question, btw...)

Why don't you give me your checkbook and let me go solve some societal problems with it. I'll PM you with my address.

(This is a serious offer, btw. . .)

[Tuckerman]

I don't even what to get started with public education. I pay for a public school that my kid does not even attend.

[Brocktoon]

Its your resonsibility because you live in the US. Whether born here or naturalized. I guess your parents should have thought more carefully where they decided to raise you.

OK, just skimming through my trust pocket Constitution anddddddddd. . .hmmm. Weird. Can't find the part that says it's my responsibility to pay for 4Matic's mom's meds because I live in the U.S. You wanna shoot me a reference on that, or are you making it up as you go along?

[mcsquared]

This line of reasoning shows how flawed your thinking is. You consider a tax credit an example of someone taking from the government. Negative. A tax credit is an amount of money the Government does NOT take from the person; it is a reduction in taxes. If you think a reduction in taxes is inconsistent with my line of thinking, I don't know what to say to you.

I don't think you should pay for my kids anymore than I should pay for your mom.

I don't understand how you can really draw a distinction between the two. Yes, a tax credit is a reduction of taxes. But aren't you arguing that you want to reduce the amount of SS tax you pay?

I agree with 4matic. I think there should be some mechanism which caps the SS benefit you get based on how much money you make outside of SS. Although, putting an actual cap on it would be unrealistic. Maybe, there should be some way to waive your SS benefits and get some kind of tax credit on every dollar you accept yet are entitled to receive.

[Yonder_River]

If you all want a more comprehensive socialized medical program, are you willing to drop frivilous lawsuits against doctors, and are you willing to have the government pay for their education so they can afford to practice and afford liability insurance?

Why should the government pay for their education? That certainly doesn't seem fair to me. This is coming from someone who's wife is a resident and has over 200k in med school loans.

And do you really think high liability insurance rates is soley the product of of just "frivilous" lawsuits? I'll grant you that in some states the criteria for bringing a lawsuit forward needs to be tempered a bit, but a complete overall...no. Trust me, insurance companies rarely have a hard time earning profits each quarter.....and I work with a bunch of actuaries who can attest to that.

[stupendous man]

... Can't find the part that says it's my responsibility to pay for 4Matic's mom's meds because I live in the U.S. You wanna shoot me a reference on that, or are you making it up as you go along?

US Constitution...

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


How about that you selfish cocksucker.

[Spats]

Some posts in this thread make me wonder what it means, for the posters, to be american. What does it mean to be part of a society, of a community ? Is the american dream just self-reliance, self-preservation, my money, my kids, my my my... and fuck the rest ?
What's the point ?
Aren't you supposed to share something, to participate in something ?

(it are serious question, btw...)

That's a legitimate question, so I'll answer it.

The problem is that most people don't understand how the US Government was designed to work, and what the Constitution, which is still the law of the land, actually says.

The United States is a big, big country. Quite a few of our states are physically larger and have more people than most EU countries -- California, for instance, has more people than Poland and nearly as many as Spain, and is larger than any of them. In total, we're twice as big as the entire European Union, have 90% of the GDP, and have almost 2/3 as many people.

The Constitutional function of the United States government is more similar to the EU than it is to an individual country: produce a common currency, guarantee free trade between the states, provide for the common defense, and most importantly, permit each member country to govern itself as it sees fit. You don't expect France to govern itself the same way Luxembourg does, and we shouldn't expect California to govern itself the same way Georgia or Idaho does.

Ron Paul's position is not that government should not be allowed to do anything: it's that our national government has usurped the powers to make their own laws that should rightly be a decision of the individual states -- which have the right to be as socialist or as market-driven as they want.

Things like the electoral college, which seem bizarre now, actually make a lot more sense if you view our national government as the Founders did: a confederation of individual, mostly autonomous countries, not as simple administrative regions for a national government.

Does that help?

[Yonder_River]

That's quite a stretch to compare a bunch of autonomous European countries with different histories, languages, traditions, etc. to the U.S.

[stupendous man]

Things like the electoral college, which seem bizarre now, actually make a lot more sense if you view our national government as the Founders did: a confederation of individual, mostly autonomous countries, not as simple administrative regions for a national government.

That's like, your opinion man. not fact. this is what the supreme court decides. being a federalist is a theory, though some would treat it as gospel.

[spook]

Some posts in this thread make me wonder what it means, for the posters, to be american. What does it mean to be part of a society, of a community ? Is the american dream just self-reliance, self-preservation, my money, my kids, my my my... and fuck the rest ?
What's the point ?
Aren't you supposed to share something, to participate in something ?

(it are serious question, btw...)

the vast majority of "americans" share the experience of being the most willfully deluded population in history.

my my my and fuck the rest pretty much sums it up. the self-reliant part is complete bullshit (americans don't count the backs of others).

it'll all be over soon enough.

[philippeR]

That's a legitimate question, so I'll answer it.

The problem is that most people don't understand how the US Government was designed to work, and what the Constitution, which is still the law of the land, actually says.

The United States is a big, big country. Quite a few of our states are physically larger and have more people than your entire country (I'm assuming France) -- which is one of the larger European countries. In total, we're twice as big as the entire European Union, and have almost 2/3 as many people.

The Constitutional function of the United States government is more similar to the EU than it is to an individual country: produce a common currency, guarantee free trade between the states, provide for the common defense, and most importantly, permit each member country to govern itself as it sees fit. You don't expect France to govern itself the same way Luxembourg does, and we shouldn't expect California to govern itself the same way Georgia or Idaho does.

Ron Paul's position is not that government should not be allowed to do anything: it's that our national government has usurped the powers to make their own laws that should rightly be a decision of the individual states -- which have the right to be as socialist or as market-driven as they want.

Things like the electoral college, which seem bizarre now, actually make a lot more sense if you view our national government as the Founders did: a confederation of individual, mostly autonomous countries, not as simple administrative regions for a national government.

Does that help?

Well, I have a basic grasp of the US constitution, from my Law School years, so I do understand, I think, the State vs Federal issue, or the electoral college rationale.
But that's not really the point isn't ? Ron Paul's or Brocktoon, or yours, stance on health care and taxes would be the same with a state-run, or county-run, taxes funded health care system. As I understand your position anyway. That the feds, in DC, run the thing makes it more inflamatory. But that's the basic idea of paying for other's problems that you refuse.
My question was more along the lines of : What's worthy of your tax $ ?
What would you consider as the common good ?
Brocktoon says : give me your checkbook and let me go solve some societal problems with it. What societal problem would you want to solve ?

[PNWbrit]

The United States is a big, big country. Quite a few of our states are physically larger and have more people than your entire country (I'm assuming France) --

Two U.S. states are bigger than France. IMHO two is < quite a few

None of 'em have a bigger population.